jmog;1833004 wrote:One of my 2nd cousins on FB the day after the election, no words to express the stupidity.



I wanted so bad to reply with "you can't be intellectually honest right now to believe that all the sudden rape is "ok" right?" But I figured I would just walk away from that grenade and leave it alone.

She's not really wrong, though. I realize not all Trump supporters were okay with his comments about sexual assault, but many were. They thought it was no big deal at all. An acquaintance of mine posted this after the election and thought it was hilarious.



This dude in having a daughter in the next couple months and thinks sexual assault is A OK.

Fab4Runner;1833005 wrote:She's not really wrong, though. I realize not all Trump supporters were okay with his comments about sexual assault, but many were. They thought it was no big deal at all. An acquaintance of mine posted this after the election and thought it was hilarious.



This dude in having a daughter in the next couple months and thinks sexual assault is A OK.

She was wrong, and while there are some idiots in the US, the vast majority do not believe sexual assault is ok and the country didn't suddenly shift in November from "sexual assault is terrible to ok".

When the POTUS sexually assaults women and makes jokes about sexually assaulting women and his supporters refuse to acknowledge how awful and fucked up and NOT okay it is, it promotes rape culture. As I said, there were some Trump supporters who condemned his behavior and words, but the vast majority tried to justify it by saying Bill Clinton (who was not running for president) did worse. If Donald Trump can assault women and also joke about it and be elected, why would any man think they can't or shouldn't?

I said all this on the election board, which is obviously a more appropriate place for this convo. But your cousin is not wrong. And you trying to tell a rape victim she is wrong and stupid is terrible.

I agree with Fab, nothing is going to be legalized. But that doesn't mean a shift in attitude towards what is "acceptable" can't or won't change, and that is a horrible thing.

Fab4Runner;1833029 wrote:When the POTUS sexually assaults women and makes jokes about sexually assaulting women and his supporters refuse to acknowledge how awful and fucked up and NOT okay it is, it promotes rape culture. As I said, there were some Trump supporters who condemned his behavior and words, but the vast majority tried to justify it by saying Bill Clinton (who was not running for president) did worse. If Donald Trump can assault women and also joke about it and be elected, why would any man think they can't or shouldn't?

I said all this on the election board, which is obviously a more appropriate place for this convo. But your cousin is not wrong. And you trying to tell a rape victim she is wrong and stupid is terrible.

I'd say saying "my daughter is going to grow up in a world where she is going to get raped walking down the street and everyone will think that's ok" is pretty wrong and also pretty stupid.

I hear ya that Trump's laid back attitude towards the sexual assault claims against him is wrong, but that doesn't mean that all of a sudden as a society were all cool with rape and that it'll happen in the streets and Trump supporters will just be perfectly cool with it lol.

Fab4Runner;1833029 wrote:When the POTUS sexually assaults women and makes jokes about sexually assaulting women and his supporters refuse to acknowledge how awful and fucked up and NOT okay it is, it promotes rape culture. As I said, there were some Trump supporters who condemned his behavior and words, but the vast majority tried to justify it by saying Bill Clinton (who was not running for president) did worse. If Donald Trump can assault women and also joke about it and be elected, why would any man think they can't or shouldn't?

I said all this on the election board, which is obviously a more appropriate place for this convo. But your cousin is not wrong. And you trying to tell a rape victim she is wrong and stupid is terrible.

1. She was wrong. She, and you, are entitled to their opinions but not entitled to their own facts. The rape culture in America did not just change in November. To say that it did is a huge logical leap that has no merit in facts.

2. So, just because someone was a rape victim means they are always correct forever and are never wrong again? Come on Fab, be real here. What she went through was terrible (I know what it was being family, it was inappropriate touching over clothes, traumatic assault for sure but not a rape), and that is most of the reason I didn't comment at all on her discussion, because I did not want to upset her feelings. However just because someone goes through something terrible, doesn't mean they can never be wrong on a related subject. It actually means that while they have a deeper understanding and empathy for that subject they are also more likely to have jaded views on the subject. There is a reason that for trial juries they immediately excuse anyone with similar experience as what the trial is about (had a family member murdered for a murder trial, been raped in a rape trial, etc), because there is a propensity for such victims to have biased/jaded views due to their past experience. They will empathize/be biased towards one side of the trial or the other. This is psychological science, not opinion.

SportsAndLady;1833036 wrote:I'd say saying "my daughter is going to grow up in a world where she is going to get raped walking down the street and everyone will think that's ok" is pretty wrong and also pretty stupid.

I hear ya that Trump's laid back attitude towards the sexual assault claims against him is wrong, butthat doesn't mean that all of a sudden as a society were all cool with rape and that it'll happen in the streets and Trump supporters will just be perfectly cool with it lol.

I don't see where she said that, and I also did not say that.

SportsAndLady;1833036 wrote:I'd say saying "my daughter is going to grow up in a world where she is going to get raped walking down the street and everyone will think that's ok" is pretty wrong and also pretty stupid.

I hear ya that Trump's laid back attitude towards the sexual assault claims against him is wrong, but that doesn't mean that all of a sudden as a society were all cool with rape and that it'll happen in the streets and Trump supporters will just be perfectly cool with it lol.

Exactly, what Trump said was 100% wrong, but that doesn't mean the country is going to be cool with rape because the President said some terrible things.

Obama admitted to Cocaine, I don't see Cocaine all the sudden "ok" in mainstream America.

Fab4Runner;1833038 wrote:I don't see where she said that, and I also did not say that.

She did, just in 2 different sentences, said in one sentence that now rape will be "ok", and in another sentence that any boy can now just walk up and assault her. Put the two sentence ideas together and SnL gets it correct on her meaning.

jmog;1833037 wrote:1. She was wrong. She, and you, are entitled to their opinions but not entitled to their own facts. The rape culture in America did not just change in November. To say that it did is a huge logical leap that has no merit in facts.

2. So, just because someone was a rape victim means they are always correct forever and are never wrong again? Come on Fab, be real here. What she went through was terrible (I know what it was being family, it was inappropriate touching over clothes, traumatic assault for sure but not a rape), and that is most of the reason I didn't comment at all on her discussion, because I did not want to upset her feelings. However just because someone goes through something terrible, doesn't mean they can never be wrong on a related subject. It actually means that while they have a deeper understanding and empathy for that subject they are also more likely to have jaded views on the subject. There is a reason that for trial juries they immediately excuse anyone with similar experience as what the trial is about (had a family member murdered for a murder trial, been raped in a rape trial, etc), because there is a propensity for such victims to have biased/jaded views due to their past experience. They will empathize/be biased towards one side of the trial or the other. This is psychological science, not opinion.

jmog;1833039 wrote:Exactly, what Trump said was 100% wrong, but that doesn't mean the country is going to be cool with rape because the President said some terrible things.

Obama admitted to Cocaine, I don't see Cocaine all the sudden "ok" in mainstream America.

We're obviously not going to agree here. Any Trump supporter who refuses to straight up acknowledge that what he has said and done is wrong is promoting rape culture. Period. (I am not saying you are one of those people, but they do exist.) Just because someone wanted him to win doesn't mean they couldn't have the guts to say what he has said and done is terrible, disgusting and 100% wrong. Instead, they made excuses and tried to make it about Bill Clinton.

If Trump can do and say these things and be elected, why can't any regular dude grab women by the ***** any time they want? According to a lot of Trump supporters, it's no big deal.

It's very similar to the logic of "Now that Trump is elected, attacks on minorities is increasing because he made it okay to be violent against people that don't look like you".

Then reality came through and most of the alleged attacks ranged from hoaxes to downright self-sabotage. We've created a culture in which victim hood is a political tool used to circumvent logic and reason to protect the narrative bubble that a particular side wants to enforce. It happens on both sides but honestly liberals are the biggest offenders.

Fab4Runner;1833043 wrote:We're obviously not going to agree here. Any Trump supporter who refuses to straight up acknowledge that what he has said and done is wrong is promoting rape culture. Period. (I am not saying you are one of those people, but they do exist.) Just because someone wanted him to win doesn't mean they couldn't have the guts to say what he has said and done is terrible, disgusting and 100% wrong. Instead, they made excuses and tried to make it about Bill Clinton.

If Trump can do and say these things and be elected, why can't any regular dude grab women by the ***** any time they want? According to a lot of Trump supporters, it's no big deal.

I agree with you there. Those that defend the comments as being okay are in the wrong.

The issue is you are applying the worst of a group to the entire group and then trying to take a moral superiority. It's very similar to Republicans taking those who defend Hillary's failure in Benghazi as Hillary supporters defending the killing of Americans abroad by foreign interests. This is standard politics in 2017.

jmog;1833040 wrote:She did, just in 2 different sentences, said in one sentence that now rape will be "ok", and in another sentence that any boy can now just walk up and assault her. Put the two sentence ideas together and SnL gets it correct on her meaning.

This. Just because it wasn't word for word, doesn't mean she basically said that.

sleeper;1833045 wrote:I agree with you there. Those that defend the comments as being okay are in the wrong.

The issue is you are applying the worst of a group to the entire group and then trying to take a moral superiority. It's very similar to Republicans taking those who defend Hillary's failure in Benghazi as Hillary supporters defending the killing of Americans abroad by foreign interests. This is standard politics in 2017.

I said in my first post regarding the subject that not all Trump supporters were okay with his comments. I fully acknowledge that.

Fab4Runner;1833048 wrote:I said in my first post regarding the subject that not all Trump supporters were okay with his comments. I fully acknowledge that.

I'd argue most weren't and only fringe supporters of Trump believe this. It's probably a small enough amount that equating support of Trump to support of rape culture is a political manipulation and not reality.

Trump's poll numbers took a substantial hit after those comments were revealed and prompted his first apology of his campaign. A vote for Trump at that point didn't promote rape culture or condoning the comments just like voting for Hillary doesn't mean you support corruption in politics.

From talking to the few Trump supporters I know, none of them condoned those comments and think they are disgusting. They voted for Trump primarily because A) He has an R next to his name, B)They did not want another Clinton in office and C) They were sick of issues that affect them financially being ignored entirely over feelz of 'oppressed' groups

Fab4Runner;1833048 wrote:I said in my first post regarding the subject that not all Trump supporters were okay with his comments. I fully acknowledge that.

It isn't just "not all" but a small minority was was "ok" with his comments.

sleeper;1833051 wrote:I'd argue most weren't and only fringe supporters of Trump believe this. It's probably a small enough amount that equating support of Trump to support of rape culture is a political manipulation and not reality.

Trump's poll numbers took a substantial hit after those comments were revealed and prompted his first apology of his campaign. A vote for Trump at that point didn't promote rape culture or condoning the comments just like voting for Hillary doesn't mean you support corruption in politics.

From talking to the few Trump supporters I know, none of them condoned those comments and think they are disgusting. They voted for Trump primarily because A) He has an R next to his name, B)They did not want another Clinton in office and C) They were sick of issues that affect them financially being ignored entirely over feelz of 'oppressed' groups

Because of where I grew up, a large number of my friends and acquaintances on Facebook are Trump supporters. I would say 70% of them were just fine with what he said and tried to shift the focus to Bill Clinton. These are teachers, coaches, mothers, fathers, grandparents, etc. who simply didn't have the balls to say that is disgusting and wrong and I am not okay with it. I find that troubling. I am not saying the majority overall were fine with it, but of those I know, they absolutely were.

jmog;1833053 wrote:It isn't just "not all" but a small minority was was "ok" with his comments.

See my post above.

Fab4Runner;1833056 wrote:Because of where I grew up, a large number of my friends and acquaintances on Facebook are Trump supporters. I would say 70% of them were just fine with what he said and tried to shift the focus to Bill Clinton. These are teachers, coaches, mothers, fathers, grandparents, etc. who simply didn't have the balls to say that is disgusting and wrong and I am not okay with it. I find that troubling. I am not saying the majority overall were fine with it, but of those I know, they absolutely were.

How do you know they were "okay with it"?

Did they post "I am okay with trump's comments on sexual harassment!"?

Fab4Runner;1833056 wrote:Because of where I grew up, a large number of my friends and acquaintances on Facebook are Trump supporters. I would say 70% of them were just fine with what he said and tried to shift the focus to Bill Clinton. These are teachers, coaches, mothers, fathers, grandparents, etc. who simply didn't have the balls to say that is disgusting and wrong and I am not okay with it. I find that troubling. I am not saying the majority overall were fine with it, but of those I know, they absolutely were.

What percentage would you say actually said they were ok with it, what percentage shifted to Bill Clinton, what percentage were Trump supporters but just didn't talk about it? You already estimated 30% spoke out, just my own guess was that probably half of those 70% just didn't talk about the "gram'em by the..." comments at all?

That group I wouldn't say yay or nay that they "support rape culture", they just ignored those discussions.
The group that compared to Bill Clinton MAY be inadvertently supporting rape culture by moving the goal posts. They may have not been ok with what Trump said but were just pointing out that Clinton/Clinton is no better. They should have pointed out that both were wrong and failed to do so.
The only group that one can say is 100% "ok" or supporting rape culture is the group that were directly saying they were "ok" with Trump's comments or even making jokes about them. Those people were idiots and probably supported the "rape culture" mindset before Trump and still do. So nothing changed culturally back in November.

SportsAndLady;1833061 wrote:How do you know they were "okay with it"?

Did they post "I am okay with trump's comments on sexual harassment!"?

Yes. They quite literally posted that it was no big deal, it was a joke, why are people upset, what Bill Clinton did was worse, stop being so sensitive, my friends and I say worse things all the time, boys will be boys. So, yes. They were fine with it.

It's one thing to still vote for the man, but to not have an issue with his comments is troubling to me. My stepdad voted for him, but he admitted Trump is disgusting and what he said was vile, inappropriate and 100% wrong.

Fab4Runner;1833068 wrote:Yes. They quite literally posted that it was no big deal, it was a joke, why are people upset, what Bill Clinton did was worse, stop being so sensitive, my friends and I say worse things all the time, boys will be boys. So, yes. They were fine with it.

It's one thing to still vote for the man, but to not have an issue with his comments is troubling to me. My stepdad voted for him, but he admitted Trump is disgusting and what he said was vile, inappropriate and 100% wrong.

Those people sound like idiots, and you should defriend them on Facebook and never think about them again. They're idiots, I'm not sure why you listen to their opinions and generalize the rest of America because of a few idiots' comments on Facebook.

A liberal friend of mine posted something like "I'm disgusted that trump won, hopefully he's assassinated by February", I simply defriended her moved on. I didn't say "if you voted for Hillary, you support the assassinations of presidents. Lol

sleeper;1833044 wrote:It's very similar to the logic of "Now that Trump is elected, attacks on minorities is increasing because he made it okay to be violent against people that don't look like you".

Then reality came through and most of the alleged attacks ranged from hoaxes to downright self-sabotage. We've created a culture in which victim hood is a political tool used to circumvent logic and reason to protect the narrative bubble that a particular side wants to enforce. It happens on both sides but honestly liberals are the biggest offenders.

Or those attacks were done by the people who were allegedly the victims on people are who were allegedly the perpetrators.

SportsAndLady;1833072 wrote:Those people sound like idiots, and you should defriend them on Facebook and never think about them again. They're idiots, I'm not sure why you listen to their opinions and generalize the rest of America because of a few idiots' comments on Facebook.

A liberal friend of mine posted something like "I'm disgusted that trump won, hopefully he's assassinated by February", I simply defriended her moved on. I didn't say "if you voted for Hillary, you support the assassinations of presidents. Lol

This. A lot of people can't get beyond their black/white logic or they are too stubborn to do it. Nobody wants to take the time to think about why Hillary lost the election, it is easier just to attack people and double down on divisive rhetoric.

SportsAndLady;1833072 wrote:Those people sound like idiots, and you should defriend them on Facebook and never think about them again. They're idiots, I'm not sure why you listen to their opinions and generalize the rest of America because of a few idiots' comments on Facebook.

A liberal friend of mine posted something like "I'm disgusted that trump won, hopefully he's assassinated by February", I simply defriended her moved on. I didn't say "if you voted for Hillary, you support the assassinations of presidents. Lol

like_that;1833075 wrote:This. A lot of people can't get beyond their black/white logic or they are too stubborn to do it. Nobody wants to take the time to think about why Hillary lost the election, it is easier just to attack people and double down on divisive rhetoric.

Defriending them won't change the fact that people think his comments and actions are okay. If everyone just ignores it and pretends it doesn't exist, nothing will change. I am not a SJW, but when something is wrong, it's wrong. Blocking it doesn't help. That doesn't mean I took it upon myself to try to make them see it's not okay. I prefer not to talk politics on Facebook, and that remains true.

Also, my posts have nothing to do with Hillary. I didn't vote for her, and I know there are myriad reasons she lost.