Spock;1857759 wrote:Comey added to the politically charged environment. The idea he wouldn't prosecute Clinton but admitted she broke the law....just like what he said today....complete subjectivity. That means he is a snake in the grass.

He didn't admit that she broke the law. He never stated that. He said that there was "evidence of potential violations," and he expressed that Clinton and the State Department at large were "extremely careless," but he never says with certainty that she did.

That's not "complete subjectivity." It is conjecture, but conjecture isn't entirely subjective.

But even if it was completely subjective, subjectivity doesn't make someone a snake in the grass. It's how anybody opines about anything.

O-Trap;1857773 wrote:He didn't admit that she broke the law. He never stated that. He said that there was "evidence of potential violations," and he expressed that Clinton and the State Department at large were "extremely careless," but he never says with certainty that she did.

That's not "complete subjectivity." It is conjecture, but conjecture isn't entirely subjective.

But even if it was completely subjective, subjectivity doesn't make someone a snake in the grass. It's how anybody opines about anything.

And the EXACT same thing can be said about trump and his comments to Comey

Spock;1857776 wrote:And the EXACT same thing can be said about trump and his comments to Comey

Did you hear me say something to the contrary?

Alpha Natural Resources opening new coal mine in WVA.

obama employer joint liability rule rolled back by Secretary Acosta.

Elements of Dodd-Frank rolled back.


Just a couple of the wins this week; thanks Don.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1857686 wrote:You are just as biased as the other side you claim to loathe. Also, what is your qualification for representing the "will of the people" or the opinion of "most folks" like you repeatedly do?

QuakerOats;1857853 wrote:Alpha Natural Resources opening new coal mine in WVA.

obama employer joint liability rule rolled back by Secretary Acosta.

Elements of Dodd-Frank rolled back.


Just a couple of the wins this week; thanks Don.

Surprise, surprise...no answer.

QuakerOats;1857853 wrote:Alpha Natural Resources opening new coal mine in WVA.

obama employer joint liability rule rolled back by Secretary Acosta.

Elements of Dodd-Frank rolled back.


Just a couple of the wins this week; thanks Don.

I know Alpha Natural Resources quite well as a veteran of the coal mining industry. The reason coal is uneconomical is because natural gas is considerably cheaper (steam coal) and because most steel is now produced by electric arc furnaces which don't use coke (mettalurgical coal) like blast furnaces do.

Natural gas is cheap (because the long arm of liberal government has not completely caught up to it, yet). Coal was made more expensive by the obama administration via radical regulatory burdens.

It is comical to be the responsible party for purposefully and forcefully adding costs to a commodity, and then turn around and say, 'look, the other commodity is less expensive", as if market forces (and not BIG government) made that happen.

QuakerOats;1857853 wrote:Alpha Natural Resources opening new coal mine in WVA.

obama employer joint liability rule rolled back by Secretary Acosta.

Elements of Dodd-Frank rolled back.


Just a couple of the wins this week; thanks Don.

Forgot to mention -

• Dow 30
• 21,296.66114.13 (0.54%)

QuakerOats;1857868 wrote:Natural gas is cheap (because the long arm of liberal government has not completely caught up to it, yet). Coal was made more expensive by the obama administration via radical regulatory burdens.

It is comical to be the responsible party for purposefully and forcefully adding costs to a commodity, and then turn around and say, 'look, the other commodity is less expensive", as if market forces (and not BIG government) made that happen.

Natural gas is cheap because of its newfound abundance. Coal's demise is due to market forces. The cost of coal was never going to be at a level below where natural gas is. I worked for a coal mine operator. Regulations were not the cause of coal's demise. Natural gas, higher difficulty in reaching new coal seams and the market's demand for cleaner fuel sources were.

Trump can say whatever he wants. Coal country jobs are never coming back. That train has left the station and Washington's got virtually nothing to do with it.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1857905 wrote:Natural gas is cheap because of its newfound abundance. Coal's demise is due to market forces. The cost of coal was never going to be at a level below where natural gas is. I worked for a coal mine operator. Regulations were not the cause of coal's demise. Natural gas, higher difficulty in reaching new coal seams and the market's demand for cleaner fuel sources were.

Trump can say whatever he wants. Coal country jobs are never coming back. That train has left the station and Washington's got virtually nothing to do with it.

Well fucking said. Let's not forget one of the most old school resources in oil is cheap as hell right now as well

Coal exports will be at a record level this year; the demand is there, with expansion internationally. At home, with the ridiculous regulations imposed on mines and on power generation plants, obama and the radical EPA threw coal under the bus. We know that, and he said he would bankrupt the industry.

As for "difficulty reaching new seamns" LOL give me a break; that sounds like all the peak oil and gas nonsense from decades ago. We have used trillions and trillions of DTH of nat gas, and today have even more in reserve than 50 years ago. Government never understands the innovation of industry and its ability to secure the resources that humanity needs. If government bureaucrats had complete charge over energy; we would all have died 50 years ago in the cold and dark.

Coal exports are almost all of the mettalurgical variety - used to make steel in China. My former company owned and operated 6 mettalurgical coal mines in WV and AL. All of that coal went to export. Government regulations have virtually no effect on that type of coal because it is made into coke and burned in China - not here. The new coal mine opening up that you referred to, while I am not familiar with it, is almost certainly a met coal mine that will export to China - again, with little impact from environmental regulations.

In addition, your reference to a new coal mine is misleading insofar as its opening as being a result of anything Trump's done. A new mine is years in planning before it comes online. A mine opening today would have been in the works long before the 2016 election - when your buddy was still in office.

As for "difficulty reaching new seams", that is absolutely a fact of the industry. Abundant coal seams, especially in Appalachia, have largely been depleted over time. The technology and costs to explore and mine harder-to-get-to seams is more expensive and that is just a fact of life. It doesn't mean that someone won't come along with a new method to do it similar to fracking for oil and gas. But today, it is harder to get to develop a meaningful mine face than it was in the past.

Finally, government bureaucrats do not have "complete control" over energy. I don't know anyone who proposes they will. Why you make that point, I'm not sure.

QuakerOats;1857853 wrote:Alpha Natural Resources opening new coal mine in WVA.

obama employer joint liability rule rolled back by Secretary Acosta.

Elements of Dodd-Frank rolled back.


Just a couple of the wins this week; thanks Don.

Corsa Coal opens new mine in Pennsylvania.

QuakerOats;1857853 wrote:Alpha Natural Resources opening new coal mine in WVA.

obama employer joint liability rule rolled back by Secretary Acosta.

Elements of Dodd-Frank rolled back.


Just a couple of the wins this week; thanks Don.

Corsa Coal opens new mine in Pennsylvania.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/10/new-coal-mine-donald-trump-pennsylvania-fossil-fuels-regulations

QuakerOats;1858312 wrote:Corsa Coal opens new mine in Pennsylvania.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/10/new-coal-mine-donald-trump-pennsylvania-fossil-fuels-regulations

once again, a new mine takes much, much longer to be brought online than the few months since Trump came into office. Despite the grandstanding he's done over this one mine, he could have had absolutely nothing to do with it's startup. Also you'll notice, it's met coal - likely for export to China or replacing some other domestic coal that will now be going to China. Nothing to do with coal power plants.

The he fact is that coal doesn't even compare to natural gas for making electricity and regulations have nothing to do with it.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1858447 wrote:once again, a new mine takes much, much longer to be brought online than the few months since Trump came into office. Despite the grandstanding he's done over this one mine, he could have had absolutely nothing to do with it's startup.

Could have

superman;1858448 wrote:Could have

Explain how. A new mine decision and execution takes far longer than 5-6 months. It would have had to been initiated before Trump was even a candidate. A met coal mine like this sells coking coal that goes entirely into blast furnace steel making. There hasnt been any new blast furnaces added in the US for 35-40 years, so that means new coal capacity will all go to China. Chinese steel manufacturing continues to add capacity. So that is what drives the opening of a new mine in PA. Donald Trump had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1858520 wrote:Explain how. A new mine decision and execution takes far longer than 5-6 months. It would have had to been initiated before Trump was even a candidate. A met coal mine like this sells coking coal that goes entirely into blast furnace steel making. There hasnt been any new blast furnaces added in the US for 35-40 years, so that means new coal capacity will all go to China. Chinese steel manufacturing continues to add capacity. So that is what drives the opening of a new mine in PA. Donald Trump had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I was quoting you, dumbass.

superman;1858528 wrote:I was quoting you, dumbass.

I said he could have had nothing to do with it. I meant that he could not have had anything to do with it. My phrasing was poor.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1858447 wrote:once again, a new mine takes much, much longer to be brought online than the few months since Trump came into office. Despite the grandstanding he's done over this one mine, he could have had absolutely nothing to do with it's startup. Also you'll notice, it's met coal - likely for export to China or replacing some other domestic coal that will now be going to China. Nothing to do with coal power plants.

The he fact is that coal doesn't even compare to natural gas for making electricity and regulations have nothing to do with it.

Straight Fuel BTU content to electricity kW production efficiency, you are correct.

The best coal power plant in the US with respect to efficiency is about 38.5% efficient.

A combined (multiple process) Natural Gas plant can operate at 44.5% efficient.

For effect, the coal number above is the best in the US, the Natural Gas number is average for the specific type of combined plant.

However, once you factor in cost ($/MMBtu) of coal vs Natural Gas, it costs about $25/MWh to make electricity by NG, and $20/MWh for coal.

So, you are not telling the whole story, which I assume you knew you weren't since you are in the industry.

Since Coal is cheaper to make electricity by about 25%, regulations absolutely have something to do with it and why NG competes with coal with regards to power creation.

This all hinges on the variability of NG cost. Coal is rather constant, NG fluctuates. There are periods where NG is cheaper to make electricity.

NG has to dip below $3/therm (MMBtu) before it is cheaper than coal for power generation.

You should really tell the whole story, especially when you are an expert.

superman;1858448 wrote:Could have

"Corsa Coal Company will operate the mine in Somerset County, Pa. - outside of Pittsburgh.
Corsa CEO George Dethlefsen said the mine will be a boon to the struggling local economy.
He praised Trump's easing of regulations and encouragement for fossil fuel exploration."

jmog is spot on above. Add in significant demand factors that will come in to play in the future related to power companies transitioning to gas, and at some point gas is going to return to a more normalized price level of $5 - $7, which will make coal-generated Kwh even 'cheaper'. And of course there is major price volatility of nat gas that can spike to $13 or so when a major hurricane hits the gulf. Of course, the Marcellus and Utica have tempered some of that with production there; but isn't the country lucky that a few of the governor's (i.e. Kasich et.al.) and states (i.e. OH, WV, PA) were open to fracking and the massive benefits provided by this safe technology. Imagine if OH, PA, and WV had radical liberals running their states and banning fracking such as New York and Maryland etc.... The People could not afford their electric bills had those types been in charge in OH, WV, and PA.

QuakerOats;1858689 wrote:jmog is spot on above. Add in significant demand factors that will come in to play in the future related to power companies transitioning to gas, and at some point gas is going to return to a more normalized price level of $5 - $7, which will make coal-generated Kwh even 'cheaper'. And of course there is major price volatility of nat gas that can spike to $13 or so when a major hurricane hits the gulf. Of course, the Marcellus and Utica have tempered some of that with production there; but isn't the country lucky that a few of the governor's (i.e. Kasich et.al.) and states (i.e. OH, WV, PA) were open to fracking and the massive benefits provided by this safe technology. Imagine if OH, PA, and WV had radical liberals running their states and banning fracking such as New York and Maryland etc.... The People could not afford their electric bills had those types been in charge in OH, WV, and PA.

Please don't quote me and then go on some far right wing nut job rant about the crazy liberals.

There are nut jobs on both sides of the environmental front.

The far left wing environmentalists want to shut down all fossil fuels due to AGW alarmism and doesn't want to let any construction go on anywhere because it might harm some random worm.

The far right wing wants to get rid of ALL EPA regulations and this leads to the Cuyahoga River on fire and smog so bad like Beijing where people are wearing masks just to breathe.

Now, the normal person who also understands science, knows that CO2 is not a pollutant but something we should slowly work to decrease IN CASE there is a AGW problem. This same normal person understands that pollution in water ways, NOx/SOx emissions from fossil fuel burning are legitimate environmental/health concerns (acid raid, smog, ground level ozone, etc).

I don't know that I quoted you, but I noted your post as being correct.

I also don't think the 'right' wants to get rid of all EPA regulations, just the regs that are ridiculous, or do not comply with the cost/benefit analysis that is required. Nor do republicans wish to see the Cuyahoga burning again.

My point stands: if Ohio, or WV, or PA were ruled by Cuomo and the NY legislature, or the Maryland legislature, this natural gas boom (which is currently benefiting all consumers) would not be occurring, and tens of trillions of cubic feet of nat gas would be off limits to The People. That is a fact.

Jeff Sessions opening statement is just killing it.