The QBR Rating one would argue is more comprehensive than the standard NFL QB Rating. Last year Derek Carr had a QBR Rating of 38, and Bridgewater 56. This year's "can't miss" quarterbacks see Mariota at 56.1 and Winston at 55.5.

Johnny Manziel's QBR this season which is really his first season of playing shows his QBR Rating at 59.1...which coincidentally is higher than Cam Newton and Russ Wilson. Hmmmm. The sample size on Manziel is relatively small in that he's played in only 4 games. Of those 4 games, 3 were on the road against teams with winning records. Quarterbacks usually play a lot better at home.

Not then there are all those knuckleheads that actually think Carr, Bridgewater, Mariota, and Winston are the better quarterbacks, Well...so far the numbers beg to differ.

The cool arguments against Manziel went like this...

1. He can't throw the ball deep. Then he completed 2 60 yard bombs against the Titans.
2. He turns it over too much. Then he had 0 turnovers against the 4th rated Bengal defense on the road.
3. He can't throw from the pocket. Then he went 33 for 45 for 378 yards last week.
4. He can't scramble against the big boys of the NFL...He has proven that to be ridiculous as well including an incredible escape/run against Pittsburgh that should have been a touchdown.

Today on 850 KNR a caller wanted to know why in the hell Cleveland fans want to run this kid out of town. Good question my man.

How many numbskulls STILL say the Browns need to piss away their number one pick on the likes of Goff, Cook, or Hackenberg?

Management of the Browns is horrible but the collective intelligence of the fan base is decidedly worse.

You can't compare a qb who has started 2 games to ones that have started 90% of games. Fail.

Footwedge;1764416 wrote:The QBR Rating one would argue is more comprehensive than the standard NFL QB Rating. Last year Derek Carr had a QBR Rating of 38, and Bridgewater 56. This year's "can't miss" quarterbacks see Mariota at 56.1 and Winston at 55.5.

Johnny Manziel's QBR this season which is really his first season of playing shows his QBR Rating at 59.1...which coincidentally is higher than Cam Newton and Russ Wilson. Hmmmm. The sample size on Manziel is relatively small in that he's played in only 4 games. Of those 4 games, 3 were on the road against teams with winning records. Quarterbacks usually play a lot better at home.

Not then there are all those knuckleheads that actually think Carr, Bridgewater, Mariota, and Winston are the better quarterbacks, Well...so far the numbers beg to differ.

The cool arguments against Manziel went like this...

1. He can't throw the ball deep. Then he completed 2 60 yard bombs against the Titans.
2. He turns it over too much. Then he had 0 turnovers against the 4th rated Bengal defense on the road.
3. He can't throw from the pocket. Then he went 33 for 45 for 378 yards last week.
4. He can't scramble against the big boys of the NFL...He has proven that to be ridiculous as well including an incredible escape/run against Pittsburgh that should have been a touchdown.

Today on 850 KNR a caller wanted to know why in the hell Cleveland fans want to run this kid out of town. Good question my man.

How many numbskulls STILL say the Browns need to piss away their number one pick on the likes of Goff, Cook, or Hackenberg?

Management of the Browns is horrible but the collective intelligence of the fan base is decidedly worse.

Per ESPN, Manziels total QBR for this season is 54.2

And no, the numbers all show that those QB's are better than Manziel thus far. Do you really need us to break down numbers for you....again?

What do you think his QBR should be at the end of the season to annoint him the starting QB in 2016?

HitsRus;1764431 wrote:What do you think his QBR should be at the end of the season to annoint him the starting QB in 2016?

About tree fiddy

HitsRus;1764431 wrote:What do you think his QBR should be at the end of the season to annoint him the starting QB in 2016?

If his QBR isn't high it will be someone else's fault.

.708 - Wilson
.619 - Bridgewater
.547 - Newton
.444 - Winston
.280 - Carr
.200 - Manziel
.167 - Mariota

Those are the winning percentages of the QB's Fuckwedge mentioned in the first post. Which one would you really want?

j_crazy;1764514 wrote:.708 - Wilson
.619 - Bridgewater
.547 - Newton
.444 - Winston
.280 - Carr
.200 - Manziel
.167 - Mariota

Those are the winning percentages of the QB's Fuckwedge mentioned in the first post. Which one would you really want?

If I had to pick 1 QB on that list give me Cam Newton. Manziel would be the last QB I want.

Also just a few examples to show how big of a joke QBR is just look at Brady/Weeden's QBR from the same game they played in that the Pats won 30-6. Yet Brady's QBR was 24.1 and Weeden's was 27.5. It got even worse for Brady who in week 8 had a QBR of 60.7 after going 26-38 for 356 yards with 4 TDs and no INTs but Aaron Rodgers in the same week had a QBR of 64.6 after going 14-22 for 77 yards and 0 TDs or INTs.

Al Bundy;1764438 wrote:If his QBR isn't high it will be someone else's fault.

Well, since he's already said in the OP that this is really Johnny's first season of playing, that means he's not counting his appearances last year (when he stunk and got more attention for drinking than anything football-related), so...yeah.

Iliketurtles;1764520 wrote:If I had to pick 1 QB on that list give me Cam Newton. Manziel would be the last QB I want.

Also just a few examples to show how big of a joke QBR is just look at Brady/Weeden's QBR from the same game they played in that the Pats won 30-6. Yet Brady's QBR was 24.1 and Weeden's was 27.5. It got even worse for Brady who in week 8 had a QBR of 60.7 after going 26-38 for 356 yards with 4 TDs and no INTs but Aaron Rodgers in the same week had a QBR of 64.6 after going 14-22 for 77 yards and 0 TDs or INTs.

Yeah, Newton isn't the best guy stat-wise, but he seems to have winning programmed into his DNA right now, as opposed to having a strong game stat-wise in leading his team to a 20+ point loss and nine points.

j_crazy;1764514 wrote:.708 - Wilson
.619 - Bridgewater
.547 - Newton
.444 - Winston
.280 - Carr
.200 - Manziel
.167 - Mariota

Those are the winning percentages of the QB's Fuckwedge mentioned in the first post. Which one would you really want?

It's not Johnny's fault he's a God and everyone else sucks!

Wasn't the QBR created by Trent Dilfer? If so, I think that's about all we need to know.

Footwedge;1764416 wrote:The sample size on Manziel is relatively small

You clearly have no appreciation on how to accomplish statistical analysis if you're trying to compare Johnny Manziel (technically 5 starts), Cam Newton (71 starts), and Russell Wilson (57 starts).

In fact, the only response your post warrants is what you already posted:

Footwedge;1764416 wrote:The sample size on Manziel is relatively small

That's all that needs to be said. Your entire analysis is worthless bc of the extremely small sample size relative to Newton and Wilson.




tl;dr version: FW once again proved his idiocy with numbers.

j_crazy;1764514 wrote:.708 - Wilson
.619 - Bridgewater
.547 - Newton
.444 - Winston
.280 - Carr
.200 - Manziel
.167 - Mariota

Those are the winning percentages of the QB's Fuckwedge mentioned in the first post. Which one would you really want?

As bad as Manziel's weapons are, they're almost an embarrassment of riches compared to the crapfest the Titans will be fielding tonight.

And...today on on the animal house...Fos yetAGAIN said the following. "Just think how much better positioned the franchise would be if they had drafted Derek Carr instead of Johnny Manziel" Hilarious. Apparently he doesn';t understand that...

A. Manziel has a stronger arm
B. Manziel has a more accurate arm.
C. Manziel is miles ahead of Carr statwise in their respective first years.
D. Manziel had a higher completion record in college than Carr.
E. Did I mention that Manziel is 10 times the runner Carr is?

You just gotta hand it to the collection of numbshulls on the Cleveland radio dial. Bull, Fox, Tony Jizzo. ButtMunch Bishop, Bruce blew a Hooley...all STILL CLAIM Johnny can't play in this league. LMAO.

The fan base should be sighing a collective sigh of relief knowing that the franchise quarterback problem has finally been solved. Instead you hear the same old garbage that Derek frickin Carr is a better quarterback than Manziel. Can only imagine if Manziel had Oakland's running game and Cooper and Crabtree to throw to what his numbers would be.

And...today on on the animal house...Fox yet AGAIN said the following. "Just think how much better positioned the franchise would be if they had drafted Derek Carr instead of Johnny Manziel" Hilarious. Apparently he doesn';t understand that...

A. Manziel has a stronger arm
B. Manziel has a more accurate arm.
C. Manziel is miles ahead of Carr statwise in their respective first years.
D. Manziel had a higher completion record in college than Carr.
E. Did I mention that Manziel is 10 times the runner Carr is?

You just gotta hand it to the collection of numbshulls on the Cleveland radio dial. Bull, Fox, Tony Jizzo. ButtMunch Bishop, Bruce blew a Hooley...all STILL CLAIM Johnny can't play in this league. LMAO.

The fan base should be sighing a collective sigh of relief knowing that the franchise quarterback problem has finally been solved. Instead you hear the same old garbage that Derek frickin Carr is a better quarterback than Manziel. Can only imagine if Manziel had Oakland's running game and Cooper and Crabtree to throw to what his numbers would be.

j_crazy;1764514 wrote:.708 - Wilson
.619 - Bridgewater
.547 - Newton
.444 - Winston
.280 - Carr
.200 - Manziel
.167 - Mariota

Those are the winning percentages of the QB's Fuckwedge mentioned in the first post. Which one would you really want?

If you think that's relevant than you are a buffoon. Course just about everybody that lives in Beverly Ohio is a buffoon. So you fit right in.

Footwedge;1764690 wrote:Instead you hear the same old garbage that Derek frickin Carr is a better quarterback than Manziel..

Derek Carr's QBR this year is 63.52 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02.htm)

Johnny Manziel's QBR this year is 54.2 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManzJo00.htm)

So which is it? Is Manziel better or is Carr better? First you make a thread singing the praises of Johnny based on QBR, but now you're saying Manziel is much better than Carr despite Carr's significantly better QBR this year.

Which one is it ya buffoon, does QBR matter? Or does it only matter until you compare Manziel to someone with a higher QBR?

I highly encourage you to look up the definition of contradiction, specifically the adjective form "contradictory". Maybe then you'll learn that you can't argue opposite sides if you're trying to make a point. Then again, I don't expect you to use any sort of intelligence when you log in and post on this site, so maybe you shouldn't strain your brain too hard.

Footwedge;1764691 wrote:If you think that's relevant than you are a buffoon. Course just about everybody that lives in Beverly Ohio is a buffoon. So you fit right in.

did you seriously say winning percentage is irrelevant? i'm pretty sure winning percentage is relevant for a great number of things. 2 examples:
1. Cam Newton's Panthers have a high winning percentage this year and will likely be hosting 1 or 2 playoff games
2. Cleveland has a low winning percentage and will be drafting their QB of the future for the 7th time in the last 11 drafts this coming May.

I think most if this is just argumentative bullshit. Making statistical comparisons on the small sample size of Johnny Manziel's performance (Pro or con )is a waste of time.
I think the bigger question is "what are the standards of performance Manziel needs to hit that would make you feel that the Browns would not have to spend a first round pick on a starting quarterback in the draft next year?"
Nobody here seems to go out on a limb and do that.

I'm going to say that if JFF wins 3 games and has a middle of the pack rating or better after the season, I'm good with handing him the reigns next year and drafting something else besides a QB with our first pick. Two games, at least, are very winnable... If he is the QB of the future he should be able to deliver AT LEAST that.

HitsRus;1764708 wrote:I think most if this is just argumentative bullshit. Making statistical comparisons on the small sample size of Johnny Manziel's performance (Pro or con )is a waste of time.
I think the bigger question is "what are the standards of performance Manziel needs to hit that would make you feel that the Browns would not have to spend a first round pick on a starting quarterback in the draft next year?"
Nobody here seems to go out on a limb and do that.

I'm going to say that if JFF wins 3 games and has a middle of the pack rating or better after the season, I'm good with handing him the reigns next year and drafting something else besides a QB with our first pick. Two games, at least, are very winnable... If he is the QB of the future he should be able to deliver AT LEAST that.

He's going to have to progress, significantly, in these last 6 games to make me feel comfortable. It all starts this weekend. If I see his picture in TMZ partying it up, it goes back to "he just doesn't get it" for me. I have no issues with a player enjoying themselves but he was JUST handed the "keys to the car." He should keep a low profile and get his ass back into Berea to prep for the Monday Night Rats game.

As far as his performance ON the field, if he cuts down on the turnovers (not talking INT's but his stupid ass fumbles), has at least a 1:1 ratio of TD's to INT's and averages 200+ yards passing per game, I'd have confidence moving forward with him. I'd still draft a QB though.

HitsRus;1764708 wrote:I think most if this is just argumentative bullshit. Making statistical comparisons on the small sample size of Johnny Manziel's performance (Pro or con )is a waste of time.
I think the bigger question is "what are the standards of performance Manziel needs to hit that would make you feel that the Browns would not have to spend a first round pick on a starting quarterback in the draft next year?"
Nobody here seems to go out on a limb and do that.

I'm going to say that if JFF wins 3 games and has a middle of the pack rating or better after the season, I'm good with handing him the reigns next year and drafting something else besides a QB with our first pick. Two games, at least, are very winnable... If he is the QB of the future he should be able to deliver AT LEAST that.

It appears that this is going to be a very weak qb draft. If we end up drafting in the top 3 and with so many other needs, I don't think you reach on a pick just to take a qb.

Al Bundy;1764713 wrote:It appears that this is going to be a very weak qb draft. If we end up drafting in the top 3 and with so many other needs, I don't think you reach on a pick just to take a qb.

I'm not thrilled with it and hope that Manziel balls out and they can take Bosa, or someone like that, with the #1 pick. The kid from Cal and the Lynch kid look the best to me and I'm thinking Connor Cook is a career backup.

I'd have confidence moving forward with him. I'd still draft a QB though.

yeah....3rd or 4th round..

If McCown is OK with mentoring Manziel, he's good for next year to back up JFF also. It's pretty obvious that we need more on defense, and it would be great if we could spend picks on that( or a WR) rather than reaching for a QB.


I'm still asking the question (and it applies to FW also)...what are you looking to see out of JFF these last six games...and what does he need to do for you to be okay with him moving forward?

HitsRus;1764734 wrote:yeah....3rd or 4th round..

If McCown is OK with mentoring Manziel, he's good for next year to back up JFF also. It's pretty obvious that we need more on defense, and it would be great if we could spend picks on that( or a WR) rather than reaching for a QB.


I'm still asking the question (and it applies to FW also)...what are you looking to see out of JFF these last six games...and what does he need to do for you to be okay with him moving forward?

McCown could end up being trade bait. If the deadline weren't so late in the year this year, he probably would've been enticing to a team like Denver, Houston or NY (Jets).

And if there isn't a QB there worth burning the top pick on and they can't swing a trade for a QB, yeah....I guess they're back to the 3rd/4th round project. It just sucks that they are probably going to be picking #1 overall and that blue chip QB is probably not going to be in this draft.