http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/index

Its fucking bullshit if a kid scholarship gets pulled and he try's to transfer to another D1 school he has to sit out a year.

Welcome to 8 months ago as far as this discussion goes.

I assume you are talking about Matt Pilgrim and Kevin Galloway? It's simple. Both were brought in under Gillispie. Gillispie's players and recruits were not up to caliber that Calipari wants. Scholarships are 1-year agreements.

Galloway was a JUCO guy who has had issues elsewhere. Pilgrim already transferred from a D-1 school (Hampton) before coming to UK.

This is the business of NCAA scholarships. Don't single out Calipari because he did what many others do at a high profile school. Look back at most new regimes, this stuff happens all the time.

Oh, and lets add this to the mix.

Michael Porter was leaving whether Calipari was hired or not. He graduated and recently had a son. He wanted to leave.

Jared Carter made it clear 2 years ago after he missed a year due to injury that he was not going to apply for another year.

Donald Williams was never on scholarship at Kentucky.

A.J. Stewart, well lets just say he probably should have been dismissed BY GILLISPIE for his actions last year. Off the court issues, numerous suspensions, etc...UK had an open and shut case to get rid of him just based on this.

I do love Travis Ford talking about how Calipari didn't know how good Matt Pilgrim was. He was a practice legend at UK, and many are still upset he isn't at UK over Josh Harrellson. However, lets be honest, NONE of these 6 players were the caliber of player Calipari wants. Pilgrim had the talent, but with only two years of eligibility, who exactly was he going to beat for minutes?

The real story in this is UK went from having a crappy coach who brought in marginal talent to a gem of a coach who had immediate talent coming with him. That means some turnover right away. It's like 2 companies merging. The best of both will be what the merged company retains. It will bring great rewards and profitability. The ugly side is some people might be expendable or no longer needed due to the merger. That's how it is. UK isn't the first. They won't be the last. Do some research on it.

yeah, if the kid is a good kid then its a shame when it gets taken away, but they are 1 year renewable and the new coach has the right.

From what I've read here, none of these seem like a "bullshit" scenario

I understand that these players weren't up to par and I understand that this has happened before but there is a reason it has happened rarely because you shouldn't be doing it, isn't the NCAA supposed to be all about the kids. The only ones getting fucked in this is the kids. Just because it is legal, doesn't mean you should do it.

You are totally correct 2quik4u. However, why name the thread "Calipari is a piece of shit?" All he did was upgrade the merchandise of a previous regime run by complete clowns.

It's the same thing that happens in business. If you take over a failing company that was being sunk by the previous owners, should you be ridiculed from changing procedure, cutting costs, getting rid of waste, etc...? I don't mean to use these terms to imply that's what these kids have become, but in reality, it has. Big time athletics is a business, and it has been for years. Cal shouldn't be singled out, but he IS because UK is having success and ESPN and others can use the name UK to get a reaction from people and get the story highly publicized. The issue is with the NCAA, which has about a million other rules and issues that are completely stupid.

I will guarantee you that almost every new coach at every major sports program has an issue like this happen with student athletes when they take over. In football, this happens a dozen times a YEAR when new coaches take over.

2quik4u wrote: I understand that these players weren't up to par and I understand that this has happened before but there is a reason it has happened rarely because you shouldn't be doing it, isn't the NCAA supposed to be all about the kids. The only ones getting fucked in this is the kids. Just because it is legal, doesn't mean you should do it.

You are sort of wrong in the part about this being rare. I can show you examples of this happening at numerous other schools just this past year. It happens in college basketball and college football quite frequently, especially when a coach brings a new system and a new coaching staff. You are just being made to believe it doesn't happen a lot because it's never a media story when small schools do it.

Remember when Rich Rod took over at Michigan? How many players left? How many didn't even have to be asked to leave and just left on their own because they knew they didn't fit into his different system? How many recruits change their commitments when new coaches are hired or old coaches are fired? It's all the same thing.

The tough part about most of these guys are that of the group (Pilgrim, Galloway, Stewart and Williams) were really guys who didn't have a home and were pretty much unwanted. Outside of Stewart, Gillispie brought these kids in and they were pretty much made to believe they had hit the jackpot. The Gillispie era ends and reality sets in...not only are these guys going to get left out, but there aren't many suitors for them. I doubt this would be an issue if every player was like Matt Pilgrim and could transfer to another high profile D-1 school and already be playing (and quite decently) this year. That's the sad part.

Calipari is a piece of shit because has has committed infractions putting 2 different schools on probation. When the sanctions hit the schools, he has already moved on to more money at a different school. Leaving the schools where he committed the infractions to clean up and deal with the messes he has left. Ask Bobby Knight what he thinks of Calipari.

Azubuike24 wrote: You are totally correct 2quik4u. However, why name the thread "Calipari is a piece of shit?" All he did was upgrade the merchandise of a previous regime run by complete clowns.

It's the same thing that happens in business. If you take over a failing company that was being sunk by the previous owners, should you be ridiculed from changing procedure, cutting costs, getting rid of waste, etc...? I don't mean to use these terms to imply that's what these kids have become, but in reality, it has. Big time athletics is a business, and it has been for years. Cal shouldn't be singled out, but he IS because UK is having success and ESPN and others can use the name UK to get a reaction from people and get the story highly publicized. The issue is with the NCAA, which has about a million other rules and issues that are completely stupid.

I will guarantee you that almost every new coach at every major sports program has an issue like this happen with student athletes when they take over. In football, this happens a dozen times a YEAR when new coaches take over.

I understand the business aspect of it but it still doesn't make it right. I bet it doesn't happen as often as you think it does. Also when you got a coach who abused some of his players physically, calling out Calipari's integrity of the game thats lets you know Calipari is a piece of shit.

Azubuike24 wrote:

2quik4u wrote: I understand that these players weren't up to par and I understand that this has happened before but there is a reason it has happened rarely because you shouldn't be doing it, isn't the NCAA supposed to be all about the kids. The only ones getting fucked in this is the kids. Just because it is legal, doesn't mean you should do it.

You are sort of wrong in the part about this being rare. I can show you examples of this happening at numerous other schools just this past year. It happens in college basketball and college football quite frequently, especially when a coach brings a new system and a new coaching staff. You are just being made to believe it doesn't happen a lot because it's never a media story when small schools do it.

Remember when Rich Rod took over at Michigan? How many players left? How many didn't even have to be asked to leave and just left on their own because they knew they didn't fit into his different system? How many recruits change their commitments when new coaches are hired or old coaches are fired? It's all the same thing.

The tough part about most of these guys are that of the group (Pilgrim, Galloway, Stewart and Williams) were really guys who didn't have a home and were pretty much unwanted. Outside of Stewart, Gillispie brought these kids in and they were pretty much made to believe they had hit the jackpot. The Gillispie era ends and reality sets in...not only are these guys going to get left out, but there aren't many suitors for them. I doubt this would be an issue if every player was like Matt Pilgrim and could transfer to another high profile D-1 school and already be playing (and quite decently) this year. That's the sad part.

There is a difference between a player leaving because he can't fit the coaches system then a coach pulling a players scholarship. Recruits aren't part of a school for three years then asked to leave. The recruits have a choice of where they want to go, when these players have there scholarships pulled they either have to go down a level or sit out a year.

Okay, so you don't think Ryan Mallett saw the writing on the wall and left UM BEFORE Rich Rod could tell him he wouldn't get to play? Of course he did. However, THE DIFFERENCE IS. Ryan Mallett had options. Many of these guys, who should've never been at UK in the first place (again, this is how low of a level Gillispie had taken the program) had nowhere to go. Therefore, why would they leave UK before being asked?

As I said with Michael Porter and Jared Carter. Both KNEW they had no chance of playing under Calipari. Both KNEW they were over their heads at UK once the top level talent and expectations were back in place. Both chose to leave before they were officially "asked" to leave. To me, there is no difference there.

If you work for a company and you know they are going to hire someone to replace you who is more qualified, you still wouldn't quit until they fired you. It's the same with these guys. Why did Michael Porter and Jared Carter do this? Simple. They both had a college degree and were ready to start their lives after college, AKA, something to move onto. Because of the situation, the other 4 had no other options and that's why it looks bad. The real story is why these guys were put into the position to begin with...the reason, Billy Gillispie's sad 2 years.

Azubuike24 wrote: Okay, so you don't think Ryan Mallett saw the writing on the wall and left UM BEFORE Rich Rod could tell him he wouldn't get to play? Of course he did. However, THE DIFFERENCE IS. Ryan Mallett had options. Many of these guys, who should've never been at UK in the first place (again, this is how low of a level Gillispie had taken the program) had nowhere to go. Therefore, why would they leave UK before being asked?

As I said with Michael Porter and Jared Carter. Both KNEW they had no chance of playing under Calipari. Both KNEW they were over their heads at UK once the top level talent and expectations were back in place. Both chose to leave before they were officially "asked" to leave. To me, there is no difference there.

If you work for a company and you know they are going to hire someone to replace you who is more qualified, you still wouldn't quit until they fired you. It's the same with these guys. Why did Michael Porter and Jared Carter do this? Simple. They both had a college degree and were ready to start their lives after college, AKA, something to move onto. Because of the situation, the other 4 had no other options and that's why it looks bad. The real story is why these guys were put into the position to begin with...the reason, Billy Gillispie's sad 2 years.

Fact is Mallet's scholarship wasn't pulled and it wasn't going to be pulled some of these guys scholarships were going to be pulled or were. Also Mallet would have started over Nick Sheridan the next year anyway.

Mallett aside, the issue here isn't that these guys were asked to leave or chose to leave. The heartbreaking part of the story is that most of them had nowhere to go. All I'm saying is before we single out Calipari, lets not forget WHY they had nowhere to go. They should've never been in the situation to begin with. You can say that's easy to say now, but it was CLEAR from watching these guys play and watching the success UK had on the court under Gillispie and Tubby (in his last 2 years) that these guys were in over their heads.

Makes me think of the people who were able to buy houses on zero credit only to be foreclosed on later. The blame should go to those who approved them to buy, NOT the bank who is taking away everything they own.

Did you notice that all they reported about Matt Pilgrim was that he couldn't major in what he wanted? That's because they didn't have a heart-breaking story to report on him. He got an eligibility waiver to play NOW, a full-ride to Oklahoma State and will leave there in 2011 with a degree. Not a bad gig IMO.

Azubuike24 wrote: Mallett aside, the issue here isn't that these guys were asked to leave or chose to leave. The heartbreaking part of the story is that most of them had nowhere to go. All I'm saying is before we single out Calipari, lets not forget WHY they had nowhere to go. They should've never been in the situation to begin with. You can say that's easy to say now, but it was CLEAR from watching these guys play and watching the success UK had on the court under Gillispie and Tubby (in his last 2 years) that these guys were in over their heads.

Makes me think of the people who were able to buy houses on zero credit only to be foreclosed on later. The blame should go to those who approved them to buy, NOT the bank who is taking away everything they own.

Did you notice that all they reported about Matt Pilgrim was that he couldn't major in what he wanted? That's because they didn't have a heart-breaking story to report on him. He got an eligibility waiver to play NOW, a full-ride to Oklahoma State and will leave there in 2011 with a degree. Not a bad gig IMO.

They had nowhere to go because they were asked to leave. Look All I am saying is that it isn't right for Calipari to do this and therefore he is a piece of shit.

And yet this gem of a coach with awesome talent following him around has won how many championships?

Zero.

It still doesn't change the fact that he's a very good coach (not great) and he DOES bring in awesome talent.

Azubuike24 wrote: Zero.

It still doesn't change the fact that he's a very good coach (not great) and he DOES bring in awesome talent.

And will do anything, legal or illegal, ethical or unethical, to be successful. He's found home.

Unethical, sure. Illegal, not sure. I'd love to find me something that he has done that has been illegal and he has been directly linked to. I bet we hear about Marcus Camby and the agent and Derrick Rose and the SAT? What else do you have?

I played D2 basketball, and our coach yearly didn't renew scholarships. I didn't like it, but it is what it is. It happens a lot more often than anyone knows. I think the ESPN piece said that Saban regularly recruits more guys than scholarships he has and just tells a few guys yearly to pack their bags because they are not good enough.

This is the real world in a big time business. You don't contribute the way you are supposed to, you risk the chance of getting the boot.

This is OLD news, and does happen. Not sure it happens often, especially at big time programs. Transfers happen often, obviously.
That being said, Cal is as shadey as they come and I wouldn't trust him for a second. He reminds me of "slick willy" the car salesman. We all know his past and I don't care what excuses people want to use...bottom line, with his Wes association, AND things that have happened at his other programs.... there is NO doubt in my mind he cheats. And I think he is very good at it, good enough to keep himself out of it.

I do agree with you, that he does cheat and is just good enough to keep himself out of it. But I think 90% of coaches out there cheat in one way or another. Does Calipari get away with more than others? Probably. But the bending of the rules is very wide spread.

2quik4u wrote: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/index

Its fucking bullshit if a kid scholarship gets pulled and he try's to transfer to another D1 school he has to sit out a year.

Claipari is a POS but not for pulling a Scholarship.

http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2009/08/report_john_calipari_memphis_t.html

Azubuike24 wrote:
The real story in this is UK went from having a crappy coach who brought in marginal talent to a gem of a coach......

Really?

Really??

Is this 'gem' the same guy whose last two colleges had final four spots vacated due to his actions?

That is the real reason that Calipari is a POS....

BTW...you will be saying the same thing when UK has to vacate a final four appearance or National Championship.

The last final four wasn't vacated due to Calipari's actions. It was vacated due to Rose's actions. Calipari has not been implicated in any way. Get your facts straight before calling him out. And I'm not positive, but I don't think he was found to be at fault at UMass either.

Calipari did what any coach would've done. He played the best freshman in the country who had been cleared TWICE by the NCAA. They then later go and declare him ineligible over a year after the fact? Calipari was never implicated in the whole thing. There is no evidence he knew of any wrongdoing with DERRICK ROSE and HIS SAT TEST. This all happened BEFORE Rose ever came to Memphis. Any college team he played for would've faced the same penalties Memphis is.

So yes, all dozen schools that offered Derrick Rose a scholarship, would also have their 2007-2008 season vacated right now had he signed with them and not Memphis. How is that the coach's fault again? The UMass thing, Calipari was not found guilty or even named in the violations, but it's not as clear cut as the Rose/Memphis thing. Calipari had NOTHING TO DO with Rose being in trouble before he came to Memphis.