reclegend22;1719794 wrote:Yes, because a foul differential of 10 to 2 in the first half in favor of Wisconsin, culminating in two of Duke's most important players (and potentially highest NBA draft picks) incurring significant foul trouble before the second half even started, screams Duke getting all the calls. The officials must have confused Okafor for Frank Kaminsky when they sent him to the bench midway through the second half with four fouls.

Duke held Wisconsin to 63 points on 60 possessions, in what was Wisconsin's worst offensive performance of the tournament. Matt Jones bottled up Sam Dekker, who was the catalyst during the Badgers' run to the title game, and Amile Jefferson, despite Okafor on the bench most of the second half, held his own against Kaminsky. The alternating defensive patterns completely disrupted Wisconsin's plan of attack and Bo Ryan failed to adjust. Offensively, Duke started attacking the rim with vigor and the rest is now history.

Duke got some calls, to be sure. I'm glad they did. But so did Wisconsin.

Don't waste your time.

Spock;1719800 wrote:this is spot on......the refs would not call a foul on Kamisky in the 1st half and he had a few. The fix was in to keep it close...otherwise Duke would of beat them by 20

Rec's great analysis is somehow lessened by cc's stupidity.

The reality is no one actually respects Duke's basketball program except the fan based where 99% of the people never went to school there. Duke wins because they are always playing 8v5 and that is their legacy. No one except the fans is going to remember these championships as legitimate; rather on how they won because they got every call.

Go Duke Football! Right guys! Guys?

superman;1719833 wrote:Rec's great analysis is somehow lessened by cc's stupidity.

Indeed. And that was stupid even by his general level of stupidity. It does say a lot when the least stupid aspect of a post is his general predictable use of "of" for "have"...

I don't disagree with much of what Rec wrote. He fails to mention the timing of the critical calls and non-calls that went Duke's way. We all know which calls I'm talking about.

BTW, I predict Grayson Allen will average 20 plus next year if the officials allow him to use his off arm to push away defenders. He is a great athlete.

As I stated earlier this Duke victory doesn't bother ma all that much. It puts Duke on the same level as Kentucky and the King of the one-and-dones, so I won't have to hear how Duke always does it right. The Duke program is now a win at all costs program.

I happen to agree with Bo Ryan in my disdain for schools that build programs on one-and -dones.The rule is ruining college basketball.

Prescott;1719875 wrote:I don't disagree with much of what Rec wrote. He fails to mention the timing of the critical calls and non-calls that went Duke's way. We all know which calls I'm talking about.

BTW, I predict Grayson Allen will average 20 plus next year if the officials allow him to use his off arm to push away defenders. He is a great athlete.

As I stated earlier this Duke victory doesn't bother ma all that much. It puts Duke on the same level as Kentucky and the King of the one-and-dones, so I won't have to hear how Duke always does it right. The Duke program is now a win at all costs program.

I happen to agree with Bo Ryan in my disdain for schools that build programs on one-and -dones.The rule is ruining college basketball.

What I really miss about college basketball is the continuity of the teams. Back in the day a good frosh comes in, plays some minutes, looks good and you just cannot wait to have him on your team for another 2-3 years. Used to have to only worry about the top of the line guys leaving after their JR year. Now you get a big time prospect, he plays well, averages like 10 points a game as a frosh and leaves. It was always fun watching those young players continue in the program and really building a solid squad.

The problem is, the NBA has a stranglehold on basketball.

The NCAA has 1 of 2 choices.

Continue with a sport, as it is, with a OAD rule, and take advantage of the Kevin Durant's, Anthony Davis', John Wall's, ANdrew Wiggins', Jahlil Okafor's for one year.

OR

Create a sport, like baseball, with a mandatory 3-year rule, where you will get more continuity but miss out on almost all of the future greats because they play their 1-year overseas.

Azubuike24;1719938 wrote:The problem is, the NBA has a stranglehold on basketball.

The NCAA has 1 of 2 choices.

Continue with a sport, as it is, with a OAD rule, and take advantage of the Kevin Durant's, Anthony Davis', John Wall's, ANdrew Wiggins', Jahlil Okafor's for one year.

OR

Create a sport, like baseball, with a mandatory 3-year rule, where you will get more continuity but miss out on almost all of the future greats because they play their 1-year overseas.

I like the latter 1000x better.

Prescott;1719875 wrote:I don't disagree with much of what Rec wrote. He fails to mention the timing of the critical calls and non-calls that went Duke's way. We all know which calls I'm talking about.

He's right on certain things, but is overlooking the glaring problem with the officiating:

Inconsistency.

The officials are there to make sure the game has a certain level of continuity and make sure players play by the rules. Instead, we get Version A of officiating in the first half and Version B in the second.

In this case, it severely impacted Wisconsin. They got used to playing a certain level of defense in the first half (and only received 2 fouls), so obviously they stuck to their game plan of playing what they feel is fundamental defense. But instead, they start getting whistled for things they got away with in the first half, which caused a huge momentum swing.

"Oh the officials were just calling a tighter game".

That's my problem with it. They should under no circumstance call a "tighter game". Call a fair game.

Couple that with the obvious blown calls at the end and you have me shaking my head at the officiating of the championship game. And it's a damn shame, because I feel we were robbed of a potential classic.

It felt like they looked at the box score at halftime and realized "oh shit, we only called 2 fouls on Wisconsin. Better balance that out in the 2nd". And that's a shame.

Allen belonged on a football field with the heisman stiff arm he used all night.

sleeper;1719939 wrote:I like the latter 1000x better.

You're not alone. Not sure if you remember what it was like from like the late 90's to when the OAD rule was instituted. People complained just as much because a lot of guys just skipped college, and then when they flunked out of the NBA, people wanted a rule put in place.

There's a long list of guys who were top 20 recruits who nobody ever heard about.

MontyBrunswick;1719945 wrote:He's right on certain things, but is overlooking the glaring problem with the officiating:

Inconsistency.

The officials are there to make sure the game has a certain level of continuity and make sure players play by the rules. Instead, we get Version A of officiating in the first half and Version B in the second.

In this case, it severely impacted Wisconsin. They got used to playing a certain level of defense in the first half (and only received 2 fouls), so obviously they stuck to their game plan of playing what they feel is fundamental defense. But instead, they start getting whistled for things they got away with in the first half, which caused a huge momentum swing.

"Oh the officials were just calling a tighter game".

That's my problem with it. They should under no circumstance call a "tighter game". Call a fair game.

Couple that with the obvious blown calls at the end and you have me shaking my head at the officiating of the championship game. And it's a damn shame, because I feel we were robbed of a potential classic.

It felt like they looked at the box score at halftime and realized "oh shit, we only called 2 fouls on Wisconsin. Better balance that out in the 2nd". And that's a shame.

The officials called the game differently in the second half because Duke changed up its game plan dramatically. Rather than settle for mid or long-range shots, the Blue Devils started going at Wisconsin by taking aggressive action against the rim and the officials were basically forced to start calling the obvious fouls. Hence the increase in fouls called on Wisconsin. The same grabs and hacks were being committed in half number one. Duke simply wasn't taking advantage of it as they were not driving to the basket with the same ferocity.

Prescott;1719875 wrote:I don't disagree with much of what Rec wrote. He fails to mention the timing of the critical calls and non-calls that went Duke's way. We all know which calls I'm talking about.

BTW, I predict Grayson Allen will average 20 plus next year if the officials allow him to use his off arm to push away defenders. He is a great athlete.

As I stated earlier this Duke victory doesn't bother ma all that much. It puts Duke on the same level as Kentucky and the King of the one-and-dones, so I won't have to hear how Duke always does it right. The Duke program is now a win at all costs program.

I happen to agree with Bo Ryan in my disdain for schools that build programs on one-and -dones.The rule is ruining college basketball.

Whether you agree with the officiating or not -- and as I've stated previously, Duke did benefit of certain calls at critical times; as did Wisconsin, especially regarding the fourth foul on Okafor -- the Blue Devils beat the Badgers twice. Duke went 2-0 against Wisconsin, including a double-digit victory in Madison.

The better team won.

reclegend22;1720472 wrote:The officials called the game differently in the second half because Duke changed up its game plan dramatically. Rather than settle for mid or long-range shots, the Blue Devils started going at Wisconsin by taking aggressive action against the rim and the officials were basically forced to start calling the obvious fouls. Hence the increase in fouls called on Wisconsin. The same grabs and hacks were being committed in half number one. Duke simply wasn't taking advantage of it as they were not driving to the basket with the same ferocity.

LOL. Nice spin!

reclegend22;1720472 wrote:The officials called the game differently in the second half because Duke changed up its game plan dramatically. Rather than settle for mid or long-range shots, the Blue Devils started going at Wisconsin by taking aggressive action against the rim and the officials were basically forced to start calling the obvious fouls.

Then with that logic, Duke should've had more points in the paint than they did in the first half. They didn't.

Duke finished the first half with 20 PIP and had 12 in the second.

MontyBrunswick;1720555 wrote:Then with that logic, Duke should've had more points in the paint than they did in the first half. They didn't.

Duke finished the first half with 20 PIP and had 12 in the second.

Not necessarily. It takes 7 fouls to get into the bonus, and then anything after that is FT attempts. The more you drive, barring that you're getting offensive boards or converting buckets, you're points in the paint may actually decrease.

reclegend22;1720473 wrote:as did Wisconsin, especially regarding the fourth foul on Okafor .

You must be referring to the third one because the fourth foul on Okafor was clearly a foul; he grabbed Kaminsky's arm after Frank schooled him with the spin move.

lhslep134;1720561 wrote:You must be referring to the third one because the fourth foul on Okafor was clearly a foul; he grabbed Kaminsky's arm after Frank schooled him with the spin move.

In summary,

Duke*

Anyone who thinks Duke won because of the refs is a moron. I hate Duke but nothing about that win screamed "they get all the calls!"

If you win an NCAA tournament you're going to benefit from a few lucky breaks. And yes some generous calls from the refs.

NCAA refs are just bad. They don't favorite Duke.

SportsAndLady;1720614 wrote:Anyone who thinks Duke won because of the refs is a moron. I hate Duke but nothing about that win screamed "they get all the calls!"

If you win an NCAA tournament you're going to benefit from a few lucky breaks. And yes some generous calls from the refs.

NCAA refs are just bad. They don't favorite Duke.

That is their legacy. This isn't just one year, one tournament, one game; Duke consistently ends up getting very favorable treatment by the officials and that's partially the reason no one respects the program.

lhslep134;1720561 wrote:You must be referring to the third one because the fourth foul on Okafor was clearly a foul; he grabbed Kaminsky's arm after Frank schooled him with the spin move.

Yes, my mistake. I was referring to the third foul, the one with about 16 minutes left to play, which was a clean block by Okafor on Kaminsky, that sent Duke's top draft pick to the bench for more than six minutes of the second half of the national championship. Pat Driscoll made that call from an absurd angle. He could barely see the ball. You know, the call that everyone is talking about because Wisconsin gets all the calls.

Wisconsin had two opportunities to beat Duke this year, including at home in the Kohl Center, and failed at both.

sleeper;1720616 wrote:That is their legacy. This isn't just one year, one tournament, one game; Duke consistently ends up getting very favorable treatment by the officials and that's partially the reason no one respects the program.

It's their legacy because people like to hate the winners. So they come up with reasons why their wins should have that * next them.

WebFire;1720624 wrote:It's their legacy because people like to hate the winners. So they come up with reasons why their wins should have that * next them.

I don't think people would have hated Wisconsin for winning; people don't like Duke because their coach is a rat who gets every call and their fans are 99% bandwagon pieces of shit. They also have a pretentious attitude about themselves, you know "doing things the right way" when clearly Coach K is just as dirty as every else.

sleeper;1720633 wrote:I don't think people would have hated Wisconsin for winning; people don't like Duke because their coach is a rat who gets every call and their fans are 99% bandwagon pieces of shit. They also have a pretentious attitude about themselves, you know "doing things the right way" when clearly Coach K is just as dirty as every else.

I'm not talking about 1 time winners.

But you are right about those other things too.

SportsAndLady;1720614 wrote:
If you win an NCAA tournament you're going to benefit from a few lucky breaks. And yes some generous calls from the refs.

NCAA refs are just bad. They don't favorite Duke.

Yep. Said it last page, you have to expect NCAA refs to make bad calls.