I appreciate the responses. I don't condone Armstong's lies and efforts to sabatoge critics. However it seems clear to me that everyone he competed with and against was doping just like him. One of his teammate's wife (Betsy Andreau) went after him like pit bull. She said it was because her husband was fired for refusing to juice. In reality, he did use drugs. He simply wasn't very good and the team cut him.

I don't know, Armstong has a big ego and did a lot of arrogant things. But it seems like cycling and the media have turned him into the rogue rider that was pure evil in the midst of all these legitimate competitors. All these guys were cheating. And when any of them were accused, the tended to lie about it.

HitsRus;1710271 wrote:I'm not going to go quite that far, but I will say that there is a little good and bad in all of us, and that hopefully, we and our athletic 'heroes' end up with more on the plus side. That said, I'm not sure that overall, LA tips the scales much in one direction or the other.
Comparing him to his athletic peers of the day, I don't think he was any worse than a lot of his athletic comtemporaries who always seemed to be looking for a chemical edge, pushing the line of legality, and often crossing it.

When you look at baseball and the numbers cranked out by guys, some caught and some not, you had to wonder if everybody was doing it. It is generally accepted that Jim Thome did not juice....if that was true, then he was probably the best 'pure' hitter of his era.

Lance Armstrong is not vilified for just doping, it's how strongly he denied it, and tried to destroy people who told the truth about him. He lied, and lied, and lied about it even after he was clearly caught. It's just made worse by the fact he was making tons of money off his feel good story about coming back from cancer, and doing it while clean.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1710291 wrote:I appreciate the responses. I don't condone Armstong's lies and efforts to sabatoge critics. However it seems clear to me that everyone he competed with and against was doping just like him. One of his teammate's wife (Betsy Andreau) went after him like pit bull. She said it was because her husband was fired for refusing to juice. In reality, he did use drugs. He simply wasn't very good and the team cut him.

I don't know, Armstong has a big ego and did a lot of arrogant things. But it seems like cycling and the media have turned him into the rogue rider that was pure evil in the midst of all these legitimate competitors. All these guys were cheating. And when any of them were accused, the tended to lie about it.

they all were cheating and all lied....the one thing they didn't do was raise millions and run a foundation that has helped thousands if not millions of people in this world. So you dig up 2 butthurt riders that complained about how the alpha male was acting and that makes his efforts with all he did positive a joke?

behind EVERY great athlete is a cocky arrogant ego.

Zoltan;1710292 wrote:Lance Armstrong is not vilified for just doping, it's how strongly he denied it, and tried to destroy people who told the truth about him. He lied, and lied, and lied about it even after he was clearly caught. It's just made worse by the fact he was making tons of money off his feel good story about coming back from cancer, and doing it while clean.

This. Lol at the people who simply refuse to admit/recognize this.

Heretic;1710312 wrote:This. Lol at the people who simply refuse to admit/recognize this.

And there were also rumors of a positive test back in '99 (I think during/after his first TdF victory) that was covered up. Whether there was a payoff or conspiracy...think how differently this all might play out if he's suspended way back in '99, especially considering his last 3-4 victories were primarily to having the strongest team.

I'm a little foggy on the details...think he got popped and then produced a doctor's prescription (after the fact) for a cortizonal cream for saddle sores or something like that.

Zoltan;1710292 wrote:Lance Armstrong is not vilified for just doping, it's how strongly he denied it,

One of the reasons why he was credible. I never thought he was clean the entire time, but it didn't make sense to me he was continuing to dope after those first 2-3 victories, at least. It SEEMED like he would have too much to lose (never underestimate the greed and ego of a pro athlete).

But you're absolutely right in that he went after accusers like no other athlete we've seen. He insisted after going thru chemo that he could never put drugs in his body. And he loved to cite how he was the most tested athlete in the world, by a huge margin. All that played a not insignificant factor in his rise to fame and popularity - American goes overseas and dominates a dirty sport and becomes the victim of a witch hunt as a result.

One of the things I used to say is I wasn't naive enough to think LA never doped....but if any athlete deserved benefit of the doubt, it was him - because no one was tested more and no one was as aggressive in defending their name.

HitsRus;1710271 wrote:....if that was true, then he was probably the best 'pure' hitter of his era.

I loved Jim Thome but I personally think Frank Thomas was a better pure hitter and he didn't juice either. Pretty sure it is well accepted that Griffey didn't either.

(sorry to hijack the thread).

IMHO the worst thing about Lance Armstrong is that he went full George Costanza with his lies about it. Sucks too because although I was never into cycling I do remember watching the Tour De France and being really inspired by his performances as a young athlete.

I like him. I appreciated this troll job.

I have two extreme feelings in regards to Armstrong..

1: If his story gave cancer patients hope, that's awesome.

2: Lance Armstrong is a huge, monumental piece of shit. Fuck that guy.

Regardless of what you think about the dbag, the coverage of those TdF's was awesome....and his accomplishments were awesome. He brought drama and excitement to the most boring sport on earth next to jogging and mountain climbing.

gut;1710732 wrote:Regardless of what you think about the dbag, the coverage of those TdF's was awesome....and his accomplishments were awesome. He brought drama and excitement to the most boring sport on earth next to jogging and mountain climbing.

No, his accomplishments were not awesome.

gut;1710732 wrote:Regardless of what you think about the dbag, the coverage of those TdF's was awesome....and his accomplishments were awesome. He brought drama and excitement to the most boring sport on earth next to jogging and mountain climbing.

That is only because he was an American. If it were some dude from some other country you would think differently.

He ruined people in the process of his denials!

It's riding a bike people! Only sport more ridiculous is XC. OK maybe that race-walking thing in the Olympics...which you just know is full of former XC runners. Either way, HTF some tool became a multi-millionaire (and he still is) for riding a bike is indicative of how fucked up Europe is to begin with. And the lying bastard banged Sheryl Crow like bongos on top of it. Put the turd in jail.

thavoice;1710783 wrote:That is only because he was an American. If it were some dude from some other country you would think differently.

He ruined people in the process of his denials!

No, him being a dick has nothing to do with putting on a good show. I knew he was a dick back then, didn't matter to me because I wasn't looking to be friends with him or have him marry my daughter.

Tiernan;1710841 wrote:It's riding a bike people! Only sport more ridiculous is XC. OK maybe that race-walking thing in the Olympics...which you just know is full of former XC runners. Either way, HTF some tool became a multi-millionaire (and he still is) for riding a bike is indicative of how fucked up Europe is to begin with. And the lying bastard banged Sheryl Crow like bongos on top of it. Put the turd in jail.

lulz. All of those sports are less boring than baseball

Spock;1710958 wrote:lulz. All of those sports are less boring than baseball

lol. No.

LOL yes. Baseball is widely considered boring out of all major sports

Spock;1711039 wrote:LOL yes. Baseball is widely considered boring out of all major sports

And cross country is riveting stuff

Spock;1711039 wrote:LOL yes. Baseball is widely considered boring out of all major sports

The fact that baseball is considered a "major sport" and all those others are not tells you all you need to know about how they stack up against baseball.

Tiernan;1710841 wrote:It's riding a bike people! Only sport more ridiculous is XC. OK maybe that race-walking thing in the Olympics...which you just know is full of former XC runners. Either way, HTF some tool became a multi-millionaire (and he still is) for riding a bike is indicative of how fucked up Europe is to begin with. And the lying bastard banged Sheryl Crow like bongos on top of it. Put the turd in jail.

STill more impressive than race car driving though...

Spock;1710958 wrote:lulz. All of those sports are less boring than baseball

.....only to those with the lack of mental capacity to understand it.

sherm03;1711071 wrote:The fact that baseball is considered a "major sport" and all those others are not tells you all you need to know about how they stack up against baseball.

Yeah, what exactly is the most popular major running event? Is it the Olympic 100-meter dash or the post-race drug testing?

Heretic;1711262 wrote:Yeah, what exactly is the most popular major running event? Is it the Olympic 100-meter dash or the post-race drug testing?

Pete Weber is the Tiger Woods of pro bowling. He's pure, unadulterated badass.