isadore;1701125 wrote:most people with 529 accounts have incomes well above middle class. 70% $200,000 or more, so this is not a program that mainly benefits the middle class. A program that would benefit the middle class and the poor, is free post secondary education for all. Of course it would be opposed by the greedy and selfish.

I'm certain that "70%" would gladly pay taxes on that money in exchange for their kids being eligible for the gobs of free money available to poor people. At an average balance of $20k, the taxes saved on that are about the same as just ONE year of free Pell Grants.

isadore;1701125 wrote:most people with 529 accounts have incomes well above middle class. 70% $200,000 or more, so this is not a program that mainly benefits the middle class. A program that would benefit the middle class and the poor, is free post secondary education for all. Of course it would be opposed by the greedy and selfish.

...so Pelosi bowed to large potential donors? Seems like the Washington way.

The middle class seems to be in opposition to paying for free community college for all. ...or maybe they are just opposed to paying for those who are able and willing to pay for it themselves.

isadore;1701125 wrote:most people with 529 accounts have incomes well above middle class. 70% $200,000 or more, so this is not a program that mainly benefits the middle class. A program that would benefit the middle class and the poor, is free post secondary education for all. Of course it would be opposed by the greedy and selfish.

Actually 70% have incomes below $150,000.

"Yet most accounts are opened by middle income families. Strategic Insight, a mutual fund research firm, found in a 2014 survey that 70 percent of 529 account holders have incomes under $150,000. The number of accounts has grown to 12 million, up from 1 million in 2001."
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/01/29/Obama-s-About-Face-529-Plans-Could-Save-Middle-Class-Bundle

Al Bundy;1701133 wrote:Actually 70% have incomes below $150,000.

I read that "70%" number also includes health savings account, which I'd guess for wealthier people is quite a bit more substantial, on both a percentage and dollar basis.

Al Bundy;1701112 wrote:"Yet most accounts are opened by middle income families. Strategic Insight, a mutual fund research firm, found in a 2014 survey that 70 percent of 529 account holders have incomes under $150,000. The number of accounts has grown to 12 million, up from 1 million in 2001."

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/01/29/Obama-s-About-Face-529-Plans-Could-Save-Middle-Class-Bundle

Even if many middle-income families save in 529 plans, an administration official, referring to the Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances, said that more than 70 percent of the account balances for 529 plans and another option known as Coverdell Education Savings Accounts are held by families with incomes over $200,000

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/23/your-money/obamas-proposed-changes-to-529-college-savings-plans-would-reduce-benefits.html?_r=0

gut;1701129 wrote:I'm certain that "70%" would gladly pay taxes on that money in exchange for their kids being eligible for the gobs of free money available to poor people. At an average balance of $20k, the taxes saved on that are about the same as just ONE year of free Pell Grants.

lol the gobs of money available to those in need. give your riches away so you can qualify for all the gobs of money available to the poor.

Educational IRA's or Coverdell Education Saving accounts suck compared to 529s. The tax free earnings at both the federal and state level combined with a state tax deduction makes 529s fantastic. The real benefit of a 529 appears to be at the State level.

Con_Alma;1701132 wrote:...so Pelosi bowed to large potential donors? Seems like the Washington way.

The middle class seems to be in opposition to paying for free community college for all. ...or maybe they are just opposed to paying for those who are able and willing to pay for it themselves.

Obama's plan is too limited. it should be 4 years of public supported post secondary education in state universities.

isadore;1701145 wrote:Obama's plan is too limited. it should be 4 years of public supported post secondary education in state universities.

The taxpayer won't support such a plan. They won't even support funding community college for all.

Con_Alma;1701148 wrote:The taxpayer won't support such a plan. They won't even support funding community college for all.

of course with the present Congress it is not possible, but in the near future. As the educational needs to rise in our society have increased, the level of public supported education has increased. we are getting to the point post secondary is needed, either academic or vocational. No matter what these greedy and selfish folks think.

isadore;1701145 wrote:Obama's plan is too limited. it should be 4 years of public supported post secondary education in state universities.

If a student comes from a poor background and has done well in school k-12, he/she is already basically going to college for free or very close to it due to all of the forms of funding available. If a student has screwed around 13 years (or more depending pre-k programs) of free education, he/she will still get some aid, but not as much.

isadore;1701151 wrote:of course with the present Congress it is not possible, but in the near future. As the educational needs to rise in our society have increased, the level of public supported education has increased. we are getting to the point post secondary is needed, either academic or vocational. No matter what these greedy and selfish folks think.

You keep waiting for that and let me know when it happens.

isadore;1701140 wrote:lol the gobs of money available to those in need. give your riches away so you can qualify for all the gobs of money available to the poor.

But I'm not poor precisely because I don't waste my money on frivolous things.

What you fail to grasp is the rich paying full boat ALREADY substantially subsidize tuition for the poor - where do you think all that scholarship money comes from? Operating expenses are fixed - the only way they can give out scholarships is for some students to pay more than what it costs for the average student.

Al Bundy;1701153 wrote:If a student comes from a poor background and has done well in school k-12, he/she is already basically going to college for free or very close to it due to all of the forms of funding available. If a student has screwed around 13 years (or more depending pre-k programs) of free education, he/she will still get some aid, but not as much.

in your view.

isadore;1701116 wrote:You know when a sentence begins: “I’m all for helping people,” they are about to attack people in need.
Always that implication the poor are overly rewarded in our system. Why they should just be grateful for the individual pittance we provide and should pull themselves up by their boot straps. Their personal and family situation means nothing, the parasitic beggars. Oh and you do know that all the rich did not become rich by working for it, quite a few were born rich.

I knew you'd bring up that argument...of course people are born rich -- their parents or grandparents WORKED for it. Same reason why people are born poor -- their parents or grandparents failed to WORK for it. Those that are born into wealth are taxed for it (inheritance/estate/etc.) so, they do pay their dues when it comes to being born into it.

But yet, you continue to skirt around helping "everyone" like I have always stated I'm for. Why can't we help both? Those that work for it (or family that has worked for it) deserve to keep money in their pockets...just like everyone that is born poor deserves the right to escape from poverty. Both can be done. And...at the same time, we can help the middle-class that basically gets no help at all.

You really like to ASSume and imply in peoples' statements. Please try to carry on a decent conversation. It could be good chat, but you don't get that. Any more of it...and you'll go right back to being blocked.

isadore;1701145 wrote:Obama's plan is too limited. it should be 4 years of public supported post secondary education in state universities.

Why should we limit it to public supported institutions? That is limiting people to their preference and "pursuit of happiness." If someone wants to attend a religious institution, that's their choice. If someone wants to utilize their funding help to attend Harvard, that's their choice. If someone wants to attend ITT Tech, they can do that too. If the goal is to allow "freedom of education," then allow it...don't restrict-allow it.

gut;1701155 wrote:But I'm not poor precisely because I don't waste my money on frivolous things.

What you fail to grasp is the rich paying full boat ALREADY substantially subsidize tuition for the poor - where do you think all that scholarship money comes from? Operating expenses are fixed - the only way they can give out scholarships is for some students to pay more than what it costs for the average student.

gosh a ruddies thank you for your condescending views on the poor's frivolous use of their very limited resources.
The rich and corporations dodge major taxes on their wealth then throw a pittance into scholarship funds and get tax deductions for it. The percentage of costs paid by the state to support public universities has precipitously declined over the years. That money has been made up by raising tuition costs. A better solution is for the government to support the institutions completely and to provide education at no cost to the students.

Con_Alma;1701154 wrote:You keep waiting for that and let me know when it happens.

Con_Alma the first, circa 1800- keep waiting and let me know when they provide public elementary education
Con_Alma the fourth, circas 1900-keep waiting and let me know when they provide public secondary education
Con-Alma the eighth-----

isadore;1701161 wrote:gosh a ruddies thank you for your condescending views on the poor's frivolous use of their very limited resources.

You've obviously never waited in line at the cable company - mostly a parade of poor people trying to dispute what they owe. Maybe turn off the tv and go find a fucking job.

isadore;1701161 wrote:That money has been made up by raising tuition costs.

Which only the rich pay.

OSH;1701159 wrote:I knew you'd bring up that argument...of course people are born rich -- their parents or grandparents WORKED for it. Same reason why people are born poor -- their parents or grandparents failed to WORK for it. Those that are born into wealth are taxed for it (inheritance/estate/etc.) so, they do pay their dues when it comes to being born into it.

But yet, you continue to skirt around helping "everyone" like I have always stated I'm for. Why can't we help both? Those that work for it (or family that has worked for it) deserve to keep money in their pockets...just like everyone that is born poor deserves the right to escape from poverty. Both can be done. And...at the same time, we can help the middle-class that basically gets no help at all.

You really like to ASSume and imply in peoples' statements. Please try to carry on a decent conversation. It could be good chat, but you don't get that. Any more of it...and you'll go right back to being blocked.



Why should we limit it to public supported institutions? That is limiting people to their preference and "pursuit of happiness." If someone wants to attend a religious institution, that's their choice. If someone wants to utilize their funding help to attend Harvard, that's their choice. If someone wants to attend ITT Tech, they can do that too. If the goal is to allow "freedom of education," then allow it...don't restrict-allow it.

Gosh a ruddies, you got to be kidding, the rough life of those with inherited wealth. They paid their dues. LOL Maybe to the country club. You say unbelievable things. You know why all these people are poor- “their parents or grandparents failed to work for it.” Do you know most people in this country worked many, many hours a week at hard and sometimes dangerous jobs and because of circumstances and responsibilities never became wealthy, in fact they just got by. To you they are just a bunch of losers.
As we are guaranteed a free public elementary and secondary education, a free post academic or vocational education should be available to all. IF you wish something else then you pay the difference.
As to being blocked, that’s the way it goes when you tell people the truth.

gut;1701166 wrote:You've obviously never waited in line at the cable company - mostly a parade of poor people trying to dispute what they owe. Maybe turn off the tv and go find a fucking job.


Which only the rich pay.

I thought you sent your butler to do that.

Many others pay to.

isadore;1701161 wrote: The rich and corporations dodge major taxes

The poor and lazy dodge all taxes.

Al Bundy;1701172 wrote:The poor and lazy dodge all taxes.

gosh a ruddies they don't have the lawyers and accounts to get away with it. And they have so little to take.

isadore;1701173 wrote:And they have so little to take.

The poor sure take a lot from the non-poor.

isadore;1701128 wrote:gosh a ruddies I sure hope the government earmarks some of your money for free post secondary education for all. A mind is a horrible thing to waste.

It'll never happen. I support people, regardless of income, to achieve success through their own hard work. If the poor don't want to work for anything, then they deserve nothing. We are already overly generous in giving these morons free food, housing, and money; they are trash.

sleeper;1701181 wrote:It'll never happen. I support people, regardless of income, to achieve success through their own hard work. If the poor don't want to work for anything, then they deserve nothing. We are already overly generous in giving these morons free food, housing, and money; they are trash.

gosh a ruddies I sure hope someone from whoville or tiny tim can make your heart expand.