gosh a ruddies I am sure you and most of this thread will spend a lot of effort in avoiding any tax that that provides any benefit to anyone else.

isadore;1700983 wrote:gosh a ruddies lady, you can call yourself anything you want, Democrat, Socialist, Marxist, Fascist, Tree Stump. Your expressed opinions tell the truth about you. Your attacks on the poor and their needs, your unwillingness to support a true chance for people who don't happen to be related to marriage to be socially mobile. You seem to feel the poor are doing pretty well and have so much going for them, label who you are.

You clearly must be poor and had no opportunities. Sucks to be you then, since you seem so miserable.

I do support poor people. My tax paying money goes to plenty of poor people to get welfare, food stamps, grants for college education, all these hand out programs the democrats have, etc. I also have put in over 1,000 volunteer hours in the past few years in various organizations, including in many foreign countries. You have no idea what poor is until you leave this country. So please take your bullshit elsewhere.

Ytowngirlinfla;1700994 wrote:You clearly must be poor and had no opportunities. Sucks to be you then, since you seem so miserable.

I do support poor people. My tax paying money goes to plenty of poor people to get welfare, food stamps, grants for college education, all these hand out programs the democrats have, etc. I also have put in over 1,000 volunteer hours in the past few years in various organizations, including in many foreign countries. You have no idea what poor is until you leave this country. So please take your bullshit elsewhere.

"handout programs" "plenty of money" and American poor have so great compared to poor in other countries. Do they have it great compared to those in Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Germany. Obviously you begrudge the poor, the benefits they receive and oppose any other programs that would help them better themselves like publicly funded post secondary education for all.

Ytowngirlinfla;1700994 wrote:You have no idea what poor is until you leave this country. So please take your bullshit elsewhere.

This.

isadore;1700999 wrote:"handout programs" "plenty of money" and American poor have so great compared to poor in other countries. Do they have it great compared to those in Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Germany. Obviously you begrudge the poor, the benefits they receive and oppose any other programs that would help them better themselves like publicly funded post secondary education for all.

You are a fucking idiot and I'm done arguing with you. I have nothing against the poor and I work with them weekly. I have no problems with the government handouts but to sit here and act like there aren't already opportunities for poor to go to college for free is outrageous.

isadore;1700985 wrote:"plenty of money to get by." Now there is a Republican attitude, those poor folk got it made.

I'm doing you a favor by not wasting my money so you can waster several years of your life failing to graduate.

Focus on what you can control and improve, which is being the best burger flipper you can be.

isadore;1700993 wrote:gosh a ruddies I am sure you and most of this thread will spend a lot of effort in avoiding any tax that that provides any benefit to anyone else.

You do the same when you do your taxes every year. Why are you so selfish to demand a refund of the money from the government? You've indicated that the federal government can spend money better than you can so don't take the check.

isadore;1700976 wrote:question-who is in the middle class? What defines it?

Who indeed. I would guess the vast majority of people that have commented on this thread are in the middle class but I can't know for sure.

If the median income in the U.S. is around $50,000 it really depends on how far above or below that number you'd like to go. Plenty of smart people have taken a stab at that question. In the past few years, the "middle class" income range has been described as between $32,900 and $64,000 a year (a Pew Charitable Trusts study), between $50,800 and $122,000 (a U.S. Department of Commerce study), and between $20,600 and $102,000 (the U.S. Census Bureau's middle 60% of incomes).

My concerns with this proposal have not been a criticism of the poor and their needs nor has it been the highest wage earners. It has always been that this a tax on everyone....for a benefit for everyone when it should be a benefit for those in need and unable to pay for it and it should only be an addition to the grants and benefits already available to those in need. Such a propoal would impact more people in the middle class than the others only because there are more of them.

When you start throwing out greed labels you need to define if those in the middle class...because they appear to be the majority of people, would be any less greedy wanting others to pay for their services than those in the middle class whom are wanting not to pay for others.

Let us not "attack the poor" by saying that people should work (or at least attempt to work) to get ahead in life. How do the "rich" become rich? They work for it. So...we should now take away things that people work for because others chose not to work for it?

It's "attacking the poor" because we believe there are enough opportunities out there for them, they don't take advantage of those opportunities, so...let's create more? Teach a man to fish...lead a horse to water...they may be overused or typical sayings, but there's so much truth to them.

I'm all for helping people, everyone actually, but there has got to be a time where individual responsibility plays a role in "social mobility" and getting ahead in life. When and where does that start?

...and then there's this.

http://opportunitylives.com/what-obamas-attempt-to-tax-college-savings-plans-reveals-about-his-views-on-the-middle-class/

The proposal was never even remotely likely to see the light of day, nor was it worth debating on its merits. It was an outright money grab at the expense of people who are so foolish as to actually save for their children’s education. Considering how the government has done everything possible to drive up the cost of higher education, forcing millions of young people into debt, the idea of then taxing their parents for trying to save for college is simply monstrous.
But there’s something else about this proposal: it was almost insanely suicidal. What politician in his right mind proposes a tax aimed narrowly at the middle class, and at such a universally accepted good as education? Even Nancy Pelosi shot this one down.
Megan McArdle suggests, quite reasonably, that this is a desperate move by those who need to finance ever bigger government and are simply going where the money is: the vast American middle class. You can understand why the champions of big government would be slavering over the very thing that defines the middle class, its savings. As she points out, 529s are not the first target.

Ytowngirlinfla;1701003 wrote:You are a fucking idiot and I'm done arguing with you. I have nothing against the poor and I work with them weekly. I have no problems with the government handouts but to sit here and act like there aren't already opportunities for poor to go to college for free is outrageous.

"handouts" , again and again you reveal you condescending, paternalistic attitude toward those in need. The fact that there may be opportunity for a small portion of the poor to better themselves allows you to attitude your view and look down your nose at those who rely on "handouts" to get by.

Con_Alma;1701059 wrote:...and then there's this.

http://opportunitylives.com/what-obamas-attempt-to-tax-college-savings-plans-reveals-about-his-views-on-the-middle-class/

The proposal was never even remotely likely to see the light of day, nor was it worth debating on its merits. It was an outright money grab at the expense of people who are so foolish as to actually save for their children’s education. Considering how the government has done everything possible to drive up the cost of higher education, forcing millions of young people into debt, the idea of then taxing their parents for trying to save for college is simply monstrous.
But there’s something else about this proposal: it was almost insanely suicidal. What politician in his right mind proposes a tax aimed narrowly at the middle class, and at such a universally accepted good as education? Even Nancy Pelosi shot this one down.
Megan McArdle suggests, quite reasonably, that this is a desperate move by those who need to finance ever bigger government and are simply going where the money is: the vast American middle class. You can understand why the champions of big government would be slavering over the very thing that defines the middle class, its savings. As she points out, 529s are not the first target.

Gosh a ruddies, Opportunity Lives, a pro-business website tied to Paul Ryan, a what nice balanced view. Its statements are based on a major lie. “a tax aimed narrowly at the middle class.” 70% of those using 529 have incomes of $200,000 a year. That is in the top 5% of incomes in the country, that is hardly the middle class. But gosh you know what would help the middle class: free post secondary education. Wow what a good idea.

sleeper;1701048 wrote:You do the same when you do your taxes every year. Why are you so selfish to demand a refund of the money from the government? You've indicated that the federal government can spend money better than you can so don't take the check.

who gets refunds.

I didn't suggest it was balanced. I did find that it mirrored my view of this proposal never having a real chance of becoming law. It added that even Nancy Pelosi opposed taxing 529s for the simple political ramification of doing so. Does that mean that people would hold such a tax against her politically..ie, they don't want the tax?

isadore;1701106 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, Opportunity Lives, a pro-business website tied to Paul Ryan, a what nice balanced view. Its statements are based on a major lie. “a tax aimed narrowly at the middle class.” 70% of those using 529 have incomes of $200,000 a year. That is in the top 5% of incomes in the country, that is hardly the middle class. But gosh you know what would help the middle class: free post secondary education. Wow what a good idea.

"Yet most accounts are opened by middle income families. Strategic Insight, a mutual fund research firm, found in a 2014 survey that 70 percent of 529 account holders have incomes under $150,000. The number of accounts has grown to 12 million, up from 1 million in 2001."

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/01/29/Obama-s-About-Face-529-Plans-Could-Save-Middle-Class-Bundle

isadore;1701108 wrote:who gets refunds.

The poor, stupid and lazy. Literally. Smart, successful people don't give the govt interest-free loans.

isadore;1701108 wrote:who gets refunds.

According to the IRS around 75% of tax returns filed receive a refund. Wow. I wasn't aware of that until I looked it up. I had no idea it was that high. Apparently the average refund is right around $3,000.00.

OSH;1701056 wrote:Let us not "attack the poor" by saying that people should work (or at least attempt to work) to get ahead in life. How do the "rich" become rich? They work for it. So...we should now take away things that people work for because others chose not to work for it?

It's "attacking the poor" because we believe there are enough opportunities out there for them, they don't take advantage of those opportunities, so...let's create more? Teach a man to fish...lead a horse to water...they may be overused or typical sayings, but there's so much truth to them.

I'm all for helping people, everyone actually, but there has got to be a time where individual responsibility plays a role in "social mobility" and getting ahead in life. When and where does that start?

You know when a sentence begins: “I’m all for helping people,” they are about to attack people in need.
Always that implication the poor are overly rewarded in our system. Why they should just be grateful for the individual pittance we provide and should pull themselves up by their boot straps. Their personal and family situation means nothing, the parasitic beggars. Oh and you do know that all the rich did not become rich by working for it, quite a few were born rich.

Those refunds include a number of taxpayers who owed zero income tax due to withholding calculations and the earned income tax credit.

Con_Alma;1701115 wrote:According to the IRS around 75% of tax returns filed receive a refund. Wow. I wasn't aware of that until I looked it up. I had no idea it was that high. Apparently the average refund is right around $3,000.00.

that is an interesting statistic

gut;1701114 wrote:The poor, stupid and lazy. Literally. Smart, successful people don't give the govt interest-free loans.

you should not talk about sleeper like that, it is cruel.

isadore;1701116 wrote:You know when a sentence begins: “I’m all for helping people,” they are about to attack people in need.
Always that implication the poor are overly rewarded in our system. Why they should just be grateful for the individual pittance we provide and should pull themselves up by their boot straps. Their personal and family situation means nothing, the parasitic beggars. Oh and you do know that all the rich did not become rich by working for it, quite a few were born rich.

No one is stopping you from providing your own money to help these people.

Con_Alma;1701052 wrote:Who indeed. I would guess the vast majority of people that have commented on this thread are in the middle class but I can't know for sure.

If the median income in the U.S. is around $50,000 it really depends on how far above or below that number you'd like to go. Plenty of smart people have taken a stab at that question. In the past few years, the "middle class" income range has been described as between $32,900 and $64,000 a year (a Pew Charitable Trusts study), between $50,800 and $122,000 (a U.S. Department of Commerce study), and between $20,600 and $102,000 (the U.S. Census Bureau's middle 60% of incomes).

My concerns with this proposal have not been a criticism of the poor and their needs nor has it been the highest wage earners. It has always been that this a tax on everyone....for a benefit for everyone when it should be a benefit for those in need and unable to pay for it and it should only be an addition to the grants and benefits already available to those in need. Such a propoal would impact more people in the middle class than the others only because there are more of them.

When you start throwing out greed labels you need to define if those in the middle class...because they appear to be the majority of people, would be any less greedy wanting others to pay for their services than those in the middle class whom are wanting not to pay for others.

most people with 529 accounts have incomes well above middle class. 70% $200,000 or more, so this is not a program that mainly benefits the middle class. A program that would benefit the middle class and the poor, is free post secondary education for all. Of course it would be opposed by the greedy and selfish.

Con_Alma;1701115 wrote:According to the IRS around 75% of tax returns filed receive a refund. Wow. I wasn't aware of that until I looked it up. I had no idea it was that high. Apparently the average refund is right around $3,000.00.

Typically anyone who itemizes and/or contributes to a 401k. And then people who have the wrong number of exemptions on their W2 (a huge number) resulting in over withholding.

It takes some effort - you need to manage your exemptions and quarterly payments such that you owe money but not enough to be hit with a penalty.

sleeper;1701122 wrote:No one is stopping you from providing your own money to help these people.

gosh a ruddies I sure hope the government earmarks some of your money for free post secondary education for all. A mind is a horrible thing to waste.