isadore;1699888 wrote:gosh a ruddies, just providing fact for those who chose to remain ignorant as a support for their prejudices.

"At least five large studies in recent years have found the United States to be less mobile than comparable nations. A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults. That shows a level of persistent disadvantage much higher than in Denmark (25 percent) and Britain (30 percent) — a country famous for its class constraints. Meanwhile, just 8 percent of American men at the bottom rose to the top fifth. That compares with 12 percent of the British and 14 percent of the Danes. "

"In 2006 Professor Corak reviewed more than 50 studies of nine countries. He ranked Canada, Norway, Finland and Denmark as the most mobile, with the United States and Britain roughly tied at the other extreme. Sweden, Germany, and France were scattered across the middle. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

You sound like an idiot. You can't even argue properly.

Community colleges are good for 2 year medical degrees, nursing, rad tech, respiratory therapy. That's about it.

Join the military and get the GI Bill. Best thing ever. Getting paid to go to Medical School and not having to pay 1 cent for it.

sleeper;1699853 wrote:It's not that difficult to rise. I make more than my parents in my first year out of college and I did that by working extra hard in college and networking my butt off. Its only difficult if you are stupid and/or lazy and I don't want to give anyone an incentive to be stupid and/or lazy.

The land of opportunity is here; stop crying.

Just another example on this site of "I got mine, screw you," philosophy. And it is obvious we are no longer the land of opportunity, because of efforts of folks like you.

gut;1699869 wrote:Seems like a perfectly good reason for you to continue voting Democrat. Like I said, Dems love them some stupid, dependent voters.

gosh a ruddies, we get the opinion of a supporter of a party that has sold its soul to the rich, greedy and selfish.

isadore;1699888 wrote:gosh a ruddies, just providing fact for those who chose to remain ignorant as a support for their prejudices.

"At least five large studies in recent years have found the United States to be less mobile than comparable nations. A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults. That shows a level of persistent disadvantage much higher than in Denmark (25 percent) and Britain (30 percent) — a country famous for its class constraints. Meanwhile, just 8 percent of American men at the bottom rose to the top fifth. That compares with 12 percent of the British and 14 percent of the Danes. "

"In 2006 Professor Corak reviewed more than 50 studies of nine countries. He ranked Canada, Norway, Finland and Denmark as the most mobile, with the United States and Britain roughly tied at the other extreme. Sweden, Germany, and France were scattered across the middle. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Here are some FACTS for you. "Sixty-seven percent of high-net-worth Americans are self-made millionaires, according to the survey. Only 8 percent inherited their wealth."

http://www.fa-mag.com/news/most-millionaires-self-made--study-says-14565.html

OSH;1699871 wrote:Sigh...unfortunately, Al, Mr. Gosh will never pull his head out from where it is dark.

While Mr. Gosh wants to help the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, I'm for helping everyone get ahead in life. That's a tsk tsk for him. Instead of really helping the people "fish," he'd much rather punish those who have actually have caught theirs. It's much easier to just take away. Why should anyone be successful in life? We must always help the lowest of the low because they can't help themselves. Right...

We must not allow statistics to get in the way...

translation-"I got mine, screw you," when it comes to any true effort to give people in need opportunity.

isadore;1699806 wrote:Fact-It is becoming increasingly difficult to rise economically in America. We are becoming an increasingly stratified society. We less and less are the land of opportunity. For over 30 years our government policies have favored the rich at the expense of the rest of us.

no it isn't. That's just a lib talking point. There are more jobs, more educational institutions than ever before. The income gap is a made up talking point to get votes. In 5 years the government can do nothing and you wont hear about this issue ever gain.

isadore;1699918 wrote:translation-"I got mine, screw you," when it comes to any true effort to give people in need opportunity.

you dumbass, you cant help someone that wont help themselves. You realize that this social experiment that you are wanting would be way worse for ALL.

Ytowngirlinfla;1699901 wrote:You sound like an idiot. You can't even argue properly.

Community colleges are good for 2 year medical degrees, nursing, rad tech, respiratory therapy. That's about it.

Join the military and get the GI Bill. Best thing ever. Getting paid to go to Medical School and not having to pay 1 cent for it.

Gosh a ruddies, providing factual information and sources is to you "not arguing properly." I supplied those in the quote you responded to. Wow.
Reaction to your statement
1. For many people those 2 year medical degrees offer a real chance of upward mobility
2. Military is an option for some but not many others.
3. The best solution be 4 years of post secondary education instead of two.

Spock;1699922 wrote:no it isn't. That's just a lib talking point. There are more jobs, more educational institutions than ever before. The income gap is a made up talking point to get votes. In 5 years the government can do nothing and you wont hear about this issue ever gain.

LOL, gosh a ruddies, these scholarly studies are not talking points to get votes. They demonstrate as compared to other industrialized, advanced nations, America is becoming less and less the land of opportunity. And that is true no matter what talking points you are pushing.

Gosh a ruddies, lets take a look at this study.
1. it is a pretty loan bar for millionaires: having one million dollars in assets.
2. It gives you no idea where they began, did they start with zero assets $900,000
3. While only 8% of the sample directly inherited their wealth, the study gives little idea of the support they received from their family in getting an education and finding a job.
4. 92% have some advanced a education, we don’t know how they paid for it, or even who paid for it.
5. Gosh getting a college education does seem an important factor. Maybe if we guaranteed a college education to all, they would be able to achieve true social mobility.
6. We do not know if this group represents a cross section of the “self made.”

isadore;1699902 wrote:Just another example on this site of "I got mine, screw you," philosophy. And it is obvious we are no longer the land of opportunity, because of efforts of folks like you.

Yeah, "I got mine" because I understand the value of hard work and networking. Why are your peers unable to work hard and network? It's because they are lazy and stupid and no amount of college is going to make them worth a damn. I'd rather spend the $60B on teaching them basics like "wear a condom" and "get a job". The people who would benefit from this program are literally TOO STUPID to educate. It's a waste of money.

Spock;1699926 wrote:you dumbass, you cant help someone that wont help themselves. You realize that this social experiment that you are wanting would be way worse for ALL.

Gosh a ruddies, the Spocks through the years reacting to other social experiments.
public elementary education will make it worse for ALL
public secondary education will make it worse for All
and now
public post secondary education will make it worse for All

sleeper;1699955 wrote:Yeah, "I got mine" because I understand the value of hard work and networking. Why are your peers unable to work hard and network? It's because they are lazy and stupid and no amount of college is going to make them worth a damn. I'd rather spend the $60B on teaching them basics like "wear a condom" and "get a job". The people who would benefit from this program are literally TOO STUPID to educate. It's a waste of money.

To be fair, I think you are selling them short on the networking part. If there is a protest, riot, or free handouts, the strength of their network is easier to see.

I'm also not sure why I should even care about others upward social mobility. The free market dictates who's going to move upwards and who isn't and its no secret. Poor stupid people will remain poor and stupid regardless of any government intervention. Even if you "redistribute the wealth" the smart people will find ways to mitigate any losses and the stupid people will be unable to recognize where they can take advantage of any gains. It's not really a problem. The problem is we have too many stupid and lazy people who only want handouts and to complain about smart people being successful.

I always hate outlining problems without addressing a solution. My solution is simple, punish people for making poor decisions. Not simply tolerate, but actively punish people for making poor decisions. It'll take a generation or two but after that we should start seeing less of stupid people and more of those willing to work hard for their own success.

Spock;1699926 wrote:you dumbass, you cant help someone that wont help themselves. You realize that this social experiment that you are wanting would be way worse for ALL.

The Spocks reaction over the years to "social experiments"
Public elementary education- it will make it "way worse for all."
Public secondary education- it will make it "way worse for all."
and now
Public post secondary education-it will make it "way worse for all."

Poverty and uneducated is a learned behavior....

Years and years of generation of welfare, social services programs have enslaved generation after generation that the idea of poverty is the norm, poor is expected plight and any concept of achievement, upward advancement is depended on the boss man (government). With this mentality and enslavement of generation to depend on the government has also manifested into the depletion of those in poverty the family unit which is another cause and effected of entitlement program failure. To complete the Socialist trifecta to enslave, let’s add illegal immigration to the mix of an already double digit unemployment rate of the poor, uneducated and criminal undesirable populist.
Generational of learned poverty and uneducated behavior is where we are at today. This has nothing to do with the lack of upward mobility, programs available and more of what hasn’t work for generation entitlement socialist failure programs at the cost of working tax paying citizens.

What has to change is the poor …. Not the rich, wealth or working citizens

They have to want to be More than just poor

Belly35;1699974 wrote:Poverty and uneducated is a learned behavior....

Learned AND genetic....a double-whammy of enslavement to poverty.

Fact is, if you're dumb then the only hope for your children is if you're hot enough to marry someone much smarter and more successful.

isadore;1699957 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, the Spocks through the years reacting to other social experiments.
public elementary education will make it worse for ALL
public secondary education will make it worse for All
and now
public post secondary education will make it worse for All

you do realize that the part of society you want to give a college education really didn't do shit during the first 12 years of education? What makes you think they are going to start caring about more free education?

A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults.

Pretty simple reason for that... the enslavement of the lower classes by the liberal elite. People in the lower fifth have been raised on the dole, and they have no incentive to move off it. Why should you better yourself when you have what you need without any effort, except to go down to the welfare office. Very basic economic principle here.....what you reward with free money, you get more of.

Spock;1700010 wrote:you do realize that the part of society you want to give a college education really didn't do shit during the first 12 years of education? What makes you think they are going to start caring about more free education?

Bingo; we see how nice they keep their federally (taxpayer) funded housing projects.

Spock;1700010 wrote:you do realize that the part of society you want to give a college education really didn't do shit during the first 12 years of education? What makes you think they are going to start caring about more free education?

gosh a ruddies what an authority you are on all the folks in the lower economic quintiles. Our system as presently operating denies these folks the chance to rise.

HitsRus;1700017 wrote:Pretty simple reason for that... the enslavement of the lower classes by the liberal elite. People in the lower fifth have been raised on the dole, and they have no incentive to move off it. Why should you better yourself when you have what you need without any effort, except to go down to the welfare office. Very basic economic principle here.....what you reward with free money, you get more of.

gosh a ruddies, look at the nations that have greater social mobility. They have a much more extensive social welfare system than we do. And within that system they provide for greater opportunity to rise.

isadore;1700047 wrote: Our system as presently operating denies these folks the chance to rise.

There are many counterexamples that prove that statement false.

Al Bundy;1700052 wrote:There are many counterexamples that prove that statement false.

gosh a ruddies, counter examples, really. What the bulk of studies show 1. America less social mobility than most other advanced nations. 2. Social mobility is declining in America and our society is becoming more stratified. 3. That the nations with greater social mobility invest a larger part of their government spending in social welfare programs.