HitsRus;1699402 wrote:Most Americans, including conservatives don't mind spending tax money when it fulfills a national need. A limited focused program to address a national shortage and need for skilled tradesman(tradeswomen) could garner bipartisan support.
The problem is that this silly notion that taxpayer money should be thrown down a rabbit hole for useless 2 year degrees....and then to actually tax people(of any class) who are trying to fund education for their children is just a product of ill political will trying to capitalize on playing one class against the other. Unfortunately, this has been all to common in this administration, as they seek to split and parse groups to their political advantage. Forgive me for criticizing your hero, but this is what happens when a community organizer and his advisors try to push an agenda, rather than focus on what is good for ALL Americans, and what is doable in the political climate.

Our nation is in the process of killing off one of it fondest claims, “land of opportunity. Social mobility is dying and our society is becoming increasingly stratified. Preventing this should be our most important domestic goal. The mistake Obama made was taking a half step, guaranteeing junior college when it should be to a bachelor’s degree or its vocational equivalent.
Gosh a ruddies according to you having “community organizer” experience disqualified you for President.
What did we get when we elected a man with experience as Texas Governor: Two disastrously planned foreign wars and the worst economic down turn in over 80 years, Give me a community organizer every time.

gut;1699407 wrote:As I've said repeatedly, stupidity is inherited. Poor people tend not to be very smart. Smart money (pun intended) those dropouts with household incomes below $35k just weren't capable. And money is not an excuse with so much free aid already available to such students (not to mention readily available loans). The obvious reason they dropped out is that they are dumb, and too ashamed to admit it in surveys - it's rather rare for people who fail at anything to blame themselves.

Now, I don't doubt that these students DO dropout for financial reasons. But it's not because they can't afford it, in most cases it's because they are either unlikely to complete their degree or their grades are so bad the shitty job waiting for them won't justify the investment. They realize they'll still be working at The Gap and so the degree is a waste of time and money.

Gosh a ruddies input from the selfish and greedy. Policies proposed by folks like you have helped choke off opportunity.

gut;1699409 wrote:Smart, non-lazy people have successfully gone that route for decades, and continue to do so.

And has been said repeatedly, there's no shortage of money. Dropping out for financial reasons is simply a complete and total bullshit excuse.

Opportunity is dying in America, we are near the bottom for advanced nations.

Learn how to post. I don't know why I even bothered to look at your blocked posts on multiple occasions. I thought maybe you'd be able to contribute and have a decent conversation once...

I'm done with you. It's like a spambot all over again.

OSH;1699444 wrote: I'm done with you. It's like a spambot all over again.

Yeah, if Isadore isn't a troll then he has to be the poster child for Obama's handouts to the stupid.

gosh a ruddies, the selfish, self aggrandizing, self centered and self serving are only interested in their own self interest. That is the bulk of folks on this thread and site. They are interested in justifying and protecting what they have. A few are honest about what drives them, but most pay some lip service to helping others to rise. But when it comes right down to it, their true colors show through. If a benefit was not available to them, then screw it. They got theirs, which they feel they so richly deserve, now screw the rest. It is that feeling that underpins much of the support for the Republican party and its policies. And it is those policies that have been killing off opportunity in this country for the last 34 years.

gut;1699445 wrote:Yeah, if Isadore isn't a troll then he has to be the poster child for Obama's handouts to the stupid.

Got that right. This whole thread could be good discussion and our own "solving of the world's problems" (well, US issues with higher ed). But, there always is someone to ruin things. Good, reasonable discussions are hard to come by...

isadore;1699416 wrote:Opportunity is dying in America, we are near the bottom for advanced nations.

No, it's not.

Everybody has the opportunity to go into debt to pay for their college education, or even to earn scholarships.

But the problem that YOU have is that you don't want them to make their own decisions. THAT ... is the issue.

What you have on this tread is a circle jerk of the self satisfied. They have theirs and have no real interest in seeing the less fortunate better themselves. Some state their position honestly, but most hide their true beliefs. They provide lip service to providing education but oppose any real, sustained effort to provide for real opportunity like free post secondary education.

CenterBHSFan;1699491 wrote:No, it's not.

Everybody has the opportunity to go into debt to pay for their college education, or even to earn scholarships.

But the problem that YOU have is that you don't want them to make their own decisions. THAT ... is the issue.

What I want for them is to have the resources and support necessary to be able to have a real opportunity to rise.

Hand-outs breed laziness and entitlement....wait, that's exactly what liberals want. Isadore looks in the mirror and sees someone who can't succeed without the government. Liberals look at Isadore and see a life-long dependent that will always vote Democrat and believe and buy-in to whatever his liberal masters tell him.

Gosh a ruddies we don't accept your Social Darwinian view of the world. America is meant to be the land of opportunity, not the dog eat dog dung heap you want to make it into.

isadore;1699640 wrote:Gosh a ruddies we don't accept your Social Darwinian view of the world. America is meant to be the land of opportunity, not the dog eat dog dung heap you want to make it into.

You don't have to accept it. The people through their legislative representatives are not going to make the proposal of free Community College available.

It's amazing that this land of opportunity offers so many things...and people still want more for free. No need to work for anything. No need to utilize those other free resources.

You can lead a horse to water...

isadore;1699531 wrote:What I want for them is to have the resources and support necessary to be able to have a real opportunity to rise.

People who have less money or more money have the same resources to inquire about getting loans to go to college.

How is it fair to expect one person to pay for college and yet give another person the opportunity to go to college for free?

You cannot create "fairness" for one while being unfair to another. Your reasoning is ridiculous, even for you. Do better.

OSH;1699659 wrote:It's amazing that this land of opportunity offers so many things...and people still want more for free. No need to work for anything. No need to utilize those other free resources.

You can lead a horse to water...

gosh a ruddies those that have looking down their noses at those who don't. And putting the US as the land with the least opportunity among advanced nations.

isadore;1699682 wrote:gosh a ruddies those that have looking down their noses at those who don't. And putting the US as the land with the least opportunity among advanced nations.

The overwhelming majority of millionaires in the United States are self-made. In this country, if you put in the work to get a skill where you can sell a good or service to someone and make smart financial decisions, you can be successful. I know it easier for you to blame others than to look in the mirror and be honest about why you are failure.

Al Bundy;1699767 wrote:The overwhelming majority of millionaires in the United States are self-made. In this country, if you put in the work to get a skill where you can sell a good or service to someone and make smart financial decisions, you can be successful. I know it easier for you to blame others than to look in the mirror and be honest about why you are failure.

Fact-It is becoming increasingly difficult to rise economically in America. We are becoming an increasingly stratified society. We less and less are the land of opportunity. For over 30 years our government policies have favored the rich at the expense of the rest of us.

isadore;1699806 wrote:Fact-It is becoming increasingly difficult to rise economically in America. We are becoming an increasingly stratified society. We less and less are the land of opportunity. For over 30 years our government policies have favored the rich at the expense of the rest of us.

so now your opinion is a fact...lmao

isadore;1699806 wrote:Fact-It is becoming increasingly difficult to rise economically in America. We are becoming an increasingly stratified society. We less and less are the land of opportunity. For over 30 years our government policies have favored the rich at the expense of the rest of us.

It's not that difficult to rise. I make more than my parents in my first year out of college and I did that by working extra hard in college and networking my butt off. Its only difficult if you are stupid and/or lazy and I don't want to give anyone an incentive to be stupid and/or lazy.

The land of opportunity is here; stop crying.

isadore;1699806 wrote: For over 30 years our government policies have favored the rich at the expense of the rest of us.

Seems like a perfectly good reason for you to continue voting Democrat. Like I said, Dems love them some stupid, dependent voters.

Al Bundy;1699767 wrote:The overwhelming majority of millionaires in the United States are self-made. In this country, if you put in the work to get a skill where you can sell a good or service to someone and make smart financial decisions, you can be successful. I know it easier for you to blame others than to look in the mirror and be honest about why you are failure.

Sigh...unfortunately, Al, Mr. Gosh will never pull his head out from where it is dark.

While Mr. Gosh wants to help the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, I'm for helping everyone get ahead in life. That's a tsk tsk for him. Instead of really helping the people "fish," he'd much rather punish those who have actually have caught theirs. It's much easier to just take away. Why should anyone be successful in life? We must always help the lowest of the low because they can't help themselves. Right...

We must not allow statistics to get in the way...

I don't think offering free community college is going to help with stupid people advancing in life anyway. I have plenty of old high school 'friends' that paid basically nothing to go to community college and are now working shitty jobs. In fact, I can't think of one case where someone actually went to community college and found success with just that degree alone. Reality is, the vast majority of people attend a 4 year college and can actually graduate are the only ones who are going to find any upward mobility. No amount of legislation is going to fix that.

Sleeper would call people who took on a pile of debt to be a shitty student at a shitty 4-yr college as dumb/lazy/irresponsible. Dems call them lifelong voters.

Al Bundy;1699826 wrote:so now your opinion is a fact...lmao

gosh a ruddies, just providing fact for those who chose to remain ignorant as a support for their prejudices.

"At least five large studies in recent years have found the United States to be less mobile than comparable nations. A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults. That shows a level of persistent disadvantage much higher than in Denmark (25 percent) and Britain (30 percent) — a country famous for its class constraints. Meanwhile, just 8 percent of American men at the bottom rose to the top fifth. That compares with 12 percent of the British and 14 percent of the Danes. "

"In 2006 Professor Corak reviewed more than 50 studies of nine countries. He ranked Canada, Norway, Finland and Denmark as the most mobile, with the United States and Britain roughly tied at the other extreme. Sweden, Germany, and France were scattered across the middle. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0