Archive Baseball Hall of Fame....

like_that

Posts: 26,625

Jan 6, 2015 7:20pm

rydawg5;1693502 wrote:I don't like biggio making it. He was above average for a dozen years but never great. I think greatness should make HOF. I think a GREAT player for 5 years > Good player for 20.

Different sport, but I use this same argument for people who try to say Hines Ward is a hofer. I don't think there was a time in his career where he was considered one of the best 5 WRs in a given season. As for Biggio I disagree with you. He has multiple golden gloves and silver slugger awards, which would indicate he was the best at his position offensively and defensively multiple times in his career. Top that off with 3k hits, and he is a hofer.

GOONx19

Posts: 7,147

Jan 6, 2015 7:21pm

HitsRus;1693508 wrote:My favorite Randy Johnson moment

[video][/video]

God I loved him.

Laley23

Posts: 29,506

Jan 6, 2015 8:56pm

Biggio is, IMO, the best 2B of the 90s. Not a top 10 player in the sport ever, but top at his position for sure.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Jan 6, 2015 8:59pm

I put Alomar above him...decent bit

brutus161

Posts: 1,686

Jan 6, 2015 9:00pm

I'm bummed that Mattingly missed again, and for the last time. I hate the Yankees, but he is one of my favorite baseball players of all time.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Jan 6, 2015 9:07pm

like_that;1693513 wrote:Different sport, but I use this same argument for people who try to say Hines Ward is a hofer. I don't think there was a time in his career where he was considered one of the best 5 WRs in a given season. As for Biggio I disagree with you. He has multiple golden gloves and silver slugger awards, which would indicate he was the best at his position offensively and defensively multiple times in his career. Top that off with 3k hits, and he is a hofer.

In fairness....he was a Super Bowl MVP which counts like a WS MVP.

As a biased Steelers fan....I've always thought Ward was borderline but I think the 2 SB and 1 MVP eventually gets him in.....but if he doesn't get in quickly his numbers won't be as impressive as WR numbers are going crazy and will for the foreseeable future.....kind of like PED and other factors led to huge offensive numbers messing up the "history" of it

I'll be shocked if a 3,000 hit player (assumed clean) doesn't make it

Laley23

Posts: 29,506

Jan 6, 2015 9:12pm

Ironman92;1693544 wrote:I put Alomar above him...decent bit

Lol, yeah. NL 2B. Should've clarified.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Jan 6, 2015 9:22pm

Laley23;1693552 wrote:Lol, yeah. NL 2B. Should've clarified.

See....it sounds good "best NL 2nd baseman of a decade"....but there wasn't much there.

I get way more out of 3,000 hits and 1850 runs scored.

S

Sonofanump

Jan 6, 2015 9:57pm

Ironman92;1693560 wrote:See....it sounds good "best NL 2nd baseman of a decade"....but there wasn't much there.

I get way more out of 3,000 hits and 1850 runs scored.

I don't think Biggio was anywhere close to Sandberg, but I also don't think Biggio is significantly better than Whitaker.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Jan 6, 2015 10:09pm

Sonofanump;1693581 wrote:I don't think Biggio was anywhere close to Sandberg, but I also don't think Biggio is significantly better than Whitaker.

Sandberg was better in the 80's

S

Sonofanump

Jan 6, 2015 10:15pm

Ironman92;1693587 wrote:Sandberg was better in the 80's

Once you start thinking about it, if Whitaker is not a HOF, then neither should Biggio.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Jan 6, 2015 10:29pm

Sonofanump;1693591 wrote:Once you start thinking about it, if Whitaker is not a HOF, then neither should Biggio.

Nope, not for me....Trammel above Sweet Lou

S

Sonofanump

Jan 6, 2015 10:44pm

Ironman92;1693596 wrote:Trammel above Sweet Lou

I agree.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Jan 6, 2015 10:57pm

Whitaker's last few years had some of his top OPS+...in partial seasons but still.

Only once top 12 MVP....only once top 20

Great player, loved him and Trammell with Parrish, Gibson etc

F

Footwedge

Posts: 9,265

Jan 7, 2015 12:51am

Not a big fan of Smoltz getting in.

W

Wally

Posts: 481

Jan 7, 2015 6:42am

Maybe if Trammel had done some back flips......

T

thavoice

Posts: 14,376

Jan 8, 2015 11:33am

Ironman92;1693550 wrote:In fairness....he was a Super Bowl MVP which counts like a WS MVP.

As a biased Steelers fan....I've always thought Ward was borderline but I think the 2 SB and 1 MVP eventually gets him in.....but if he doesn't get in quickly his numbers won't be as impressive as WR numbers are going crazy and will for the foreseeable future.....kind of like PED and other factors led to huge offensive numbers messing up the "history" of it

I'll be shocked if a 3,000 hit player (assumed clean) doesn't make it

Agreed about Ward. I wonder myself but then I look at the numbers....top ten in receptions, 1000 to be exact, so he caught the ball and also was not afraid to block. He is 15th in receiving TD's.
SB MVP in itself isnt a reason someone should be in the HoF, but when you also put it with his other stats it does help.

It took Cris Carter a very long time to get in and he was much, much better than Ward.

HW was only a few yards away from Rushing, receiving and passing for 1000 yards in each category while in college. He slipped in the draft when teams found out he had no ACL in one of his knees.

I could look but how many guys with 3k+ hits are not in and dont have a scandal attached to them?
I look at it this way.....200 hits in a season is great. 3k hits in s like 15 seasons with that many....amazing.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Jan 8, 2015 12:31pm

thavoice;1694046 wrote:Agreed about Ward. I wonder myself but then I look at the numbers....top ten in receptions, 1000 to be exact, so he caught the ball and also was not afraid to block. He is 15th in receiving TD's.
SB MVP in itself isnt a reason someone should be in the HoF, but when you also put it with his other stats it does help.

It took Cris Carter a very long time to get in and he was much, much better than Ward.

HW was only a few yards away from Rushing, receiving and passing for 1000 yards in each category while in college. He slipped in the draft when teams found out he had no ACL in one of his knees.

I could look but how many guys with 3k+ hits are not in and dont have a scandal attached to them?
I look at it this way.....200 hits in a season is great. 3k hits in s like 15 seasons with that many....amazing.

Before the huge offensive push due to teh cheetz no one over 2775 hits was out of the HOF

IMO Harold Baines with around 2850 hits should be the highest clean total not in the HOF

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Jan 10, 2015 10:40am

Good read....and the comparison to Ortiz is good

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=jayson-stark&id=1051&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FZ16lQ9R9Rz%22%7D

HitsRus

Posts: 9,206

Jan 10, 2015 11:59am

^^^That is a good read...thanks for posting.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Jan 10, 2015 12:32pm

I've always thought that.....Delgado had ridiculous seasons and several very good ones right smack in the middle of the steroid era. I believe he is in the same steroid boat as Ortiz.....Ortiz has the postseason heroics and Delgado actually wore a glove.

Laley23

Posts: 29,506

Jan 16, 2015 11:19am

Randy Johnson going in as a D'Back. He won a WS and 4 CYA with them, so it is no surprise...but, to me, he is always going to be a Mariner. Dont know why, he was with Arizona as long. Just always picture him as a Mariner.

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Jan 16, 2015 11:46am

Laley23;1696988 wrote:Randy Johnson going in as a D'Back. He won a WS and 4 CYA with them, so it is no surprise...but, to me, he is always going to be a Mariner. Dont know why, he was with Arizona as long. Just always picture him as a Mariner.

Because we (Cleveland) faced him when he was a Mariner. Didn't really face him when he was a D-Back.

My Zona friends are happy he'll be wearing their hat.

Laley23

Posts: 29,506

Jan 16, 2015 11:50am

lhslep134;1696996 wrote:Because we (Cleveland) faced him when he was a Mariner. Didn't really face him when he was a D-Back.

My Zona friends are happy he'll be wearing their hat.

I watched him a TON more with Arizona though. As far as TV goes.

I think it is more because he made his name with Seattle. Unless you spend a ton more time with another team, I usually picture a player with their first team. First impression kind of thing.

T

thavoice

Posts: 14,376

Jan 16, 2015 12:23pm

Not HoF related, but I saw the White Sox are retiring Konerko's number.
Think of the sluggers out there the reds had....Dunn, Konerko, EE, Hamilton, all playing the same time!