BR1986FB;1686407 wrote:He'll be back. Just waiting for things to die down.

He had as bad of a 36 hour period as you could have on the OC. First, he completely and indefensibly made a retard of himself with a basic math question. Then, his lord and savior had an absolutely pathetic debut. It's not like FW had any credibility anyways, but any that he might have thought he had went out the window in the past day and a half.

lhslep134;1686417 wrote:He had as bad of a 36 hour period as you could have on the OC. First, he completely and indefensibly made a retard of himself with a basic math question. Then, his lord and savior had an absolutely pathetic debut. It's not like FW had any credibility anyways, but any that he might have thought he had went out the window in the past day and a half.

You just don't make the "future Hall of Famer" comments about a rookie who has never started. Too many people based his projected debut on his college body of work. I know that's all they have to go off of but it's just dumb.

If anyone is a gluton for punishment:

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/12/15/7393781/bengals-vs-browns-analyzing-the-snap-counts-defense

Commander of Awesome;1686421 wrote:If anyone is a gluton for punishment:

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/12/15/7393781/bengals-vs-browns-analyzing-the-snap-counts-defense

Just horrible.

I will say one thing, penalty aside, it does seem like Mingo has stepped up his game, a bit, in the last few weeks.

BR1986FB;1686423 wrote:Just horrible.

I will say one thing, penalty aside, it does seem like Mingo has stepped up his game, a bit, in the last few weeks.

He has stepped up some, but it is still troublesome that our first round picks are always project type players. With the exception of the qb position, you expect a first round pick to contribute some his rookie year and be a key player by his second year.

Al Bundy;1686425 wrote:He has stepped up some, but it is still troublesome that our first round picks are always project type players. With the exception of the qb position, you expect a first round pick to contribute some his rookie year and be a key player by his second year.

That's one of the major issues with running a 3-4. OLB's, many times, are "projects" in that not many colleges run a 3-4 and GM's have to project 4-3 D-Linemen who can make the transisiton. For years, Pittsburgh's GM was very good at this but he hasn't been as good in recent years.

BR1986FB;1686428 wrote:That's one of the major issues with running a 3-4. OLB's, many times, are "projects" in that not many colleges run a 3-4 and GM's have to project 4-3 D-Linemen who can make the transisiton. For years, Pittsburgh's GM was very good at this but he hasn't been as good in recent years.

Sometimes hard to project thos OLB in the 3-4. At time you take a very good undersized DE and try to make him the OLB in the 3-4

thavoice;1686430 wrote:Sometimes hard to project thos OLB in the 3-4. At time you take a very good undersized DE and try to make him the OLB in the 3-4

That's how a good GM will make his money. If they hit on a few of those DE's and they turn into stud OLB's, they will look like personnel geniuses.

I don't think many were thrilled with the Mingo pick when it happened.

BR1986FB;1686432 wrote:That's how a good GM will make his money. If they hit on a few of those DE's and they turn into stud OLB's, they will look like personnel geniuses.

I don't think many were thrilled with the Mingo pick when it happened.

Over the past three drafts, we have had five first round picks. None of them are where you would hope they would be at this point in their careers. Two of them are gone. Mingo, Gilbert, and Manziel all look they have a long way to go be even average NFL players.

Al Bundy;1686441 wrote:Over the past three drafts, we have had five first round picks. None of them are where you would hope they would be at this point in their careers. Two of them are gone. Mingo, Gilbert, and Manziel all look they have a long way to go be even average NFL players.

Maybe Farmer should pull a Belichick and trade back for a bunch of 2nd rounders? LOL....seems like he's hit on 2nd round and later along with UDFA's.

BR1986FB;1686432 wrote: I don't think many were thrilled with the Mingo pick when it happened.

Some were because of his first name.

Woof Woof!

BRF;1686450 wrote:Some were because of his first name.

Woof Woof!

How can you go wrong if you make picks based upon a cool first name and what a homeless guy recommends?

I'm actually OK with Mingo. 2nd year player who's had 2 different DCs and has shown enough flashes that I'm not close to giving up on him.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/15/refo-bengals-browns-week-15/

Cleveland Browns – Performances of Note
Joel Bitpwnnio, LG: +2.4

Breakdown: The Cleveland Browns look like they have found their left guard of the future as Joel Bitonio is not just performing at a high level for a rookie, but he’s the second-highest graded guard this season. Against the Bengals, Bitonio only allowed one hurry and even though the running game struggled, he was able to consistently seal his defender.

Signature Stat: Since Week 9 Joel Bitonio leads all guards (who qualify) in Pass Blocking Efficiency of 99.4. with only two total pressures allowed over the past seven weeks.
Paul Kruger, OLB: +1.5
Breakdown: In a game where the Browns’ defense was overmatched from the first drive, the one good performance came from Paul Kruger. Kruger was unable to make his presents felt as a run defender, however as a pass rusher he was able to record four total pressure on just 20 pass rushing snaps.
Signature Stat: Kruger had the third-highest Pass Rushing Productivity for all 3-4 outside linebackers at 19.1, behind only Dan Skuta and Clay Matthews
Johnny Manziel, QB: -5.0
Breakdown: With the football world looking on and expecting fireworks, they were given, simply, a poor performance from a rookie quarterback. Manziel struggled to find his rhythm early and had trouble dealing with pressure from the Cincinnati defense, as he completed one of seven passes for 19 yards with the rush closing in.
Signature Play: Q2, 11:30 remaining. Andrew Hawkins is running a crossing route form right to left, Manziel waits to pass until Hawkins is passed the numbers on the left side of the field, allowing Dre Kirkpatrick time to undercut and intercept it.

It's lookin' more and more like the Manziel pick was all Haslem, and Pettine didn't want him. Pettine has said that three games will be a good enough evaluation to see what Manziel has.

se-alum;1686508 wrote:It's lookin' more and more like the Manziel pick was all Haslem, and Pettine didn't want him. Pettine has said that three games will be a good enough evaluation to see what Manziel has.

If that is the case, it makes me wonder how terrible Manziel must look in practice.

He actually said the team will have a sense, but it won't be enough to confirm one way or the other.

For the most part I tend to agree that 3 starts aren't enough to evaluate a QB....however, if he comes out and shits the bed these next two games, much like he did this past game, then for me, that will be all I need to know.

If he doesn't show ANYTHING, in these last two, then you have to look hard at either drafting a guy in the 2nd/3rd round to come in an push, or bring Hoyer back/sign a FA QB. Can't hand him the job out right if he doesn't improve on yesterday's showing.

HighRoller74;1686526 wrote:For the most part I tend to agree that 3 starts aren't enough to evaluate a QB....however, if he comes out and shits the bed these next two games, much like he did this past game, then for me, that will be all I need to know.

If he doesn't show ANYTHING, in these last two, then you have to look hard at either drafting a guy in the 2nd/3rd round to come in an push, or bring Hoyer back/sign a FA QB. Can't hand him the job out right if he doesn't improve on yesterday's showing.

But, but did you see that TD against Buffalo?

HighRoller74;1686526 wrote:For the most part I tend to agree that 3 starts aren't enough to evaluate a QB....however, if he comes out and shits the bed these next two games, much like he did this past game, then for me, that will be all I need to know.

If he doesn't show ANYTHING, in these last two, then you have to look hard at either drafting a guy in the 2nd/3rd round to come in an push, or bring Hoyer back/sign a FA QB. Can't hand him the job out right if he doesn't improve on yesterday's showing.

Was talking to a co worker about this and what if Winston falls to the second rd. do you pick him?

Someone start next week's thread? I'm hanging my thread creation browns cleats up this season.

Crimson streak;1686539 wrote:Was talking to a co worker about this and what if Winston falls to the second rd. do you pick him?

Hmmm.....interesting question, and not to turn this in to looking ahead to the draft, not ready to do that, so I'll just speak in generalities for most teams.

I think if he falls to the 2nd rd the risk drafting is quite a bit lower, where a team in a similar position to Cleveland (Rookie or young QB, not sold on being star) would have to kick the tires on him. I personally don't like Winston until the late 1st, 2nd anyway due to the obvious maturity issues, but that's just me. Early first round brings a high bust potential, but if he's taken in the 2nd round, like Geno Smith was, it doesn't kill your team to cut bait and let him walk.

http://m.wtam.com/onair/mike-trivisonno-2339/bernie-kosar-crushes-browns-organization-says-13068238/

One thing JFF has going for him is his age. He's still a kid with time to develop.....unlike Weeden. If he falls flat on his face the next two games, I think you have to bring in another QB ....at least for competition. It would not surprise me if he looks pretty good next week against the Panthers. The kid has a good football sense, that much should be obvious from his Texas A&M days. A little maturity, a little development may be all he needs. The whole thing has been nothing but a hyperbole of expectations both positive and negative.....I want to see some growth here in week two.

I don't want anything to do with Jameis.