BR1986FB;1680486 wrote:Ummm, yeah....Gilbert HAS been a disappointment. Number 8 pick in the draft has lost playing time to a better/undrafted corner (K'Waun Williams). I wouldn't say "bust" just yet but "disappointment" is pretty much right on the money.

Will get up at 6 o'clock tomorrow just to listen to the brilliant and eloquent Chuck Booms cram a bucket of STFU up Kylie's ass. As recently as last Thursday, Kylie clamored that only morons would want to see this team play Manziel over Hoyer. But, but, but, 10-4...10-4!

You would have thought that given the fact that Hoyer was able to only put up 3 points in 3 1/2 quarters against the Bills defense, that rookie Johnnie would struggle. LOL...3 minutes...80 yards...7 points.

Where's Al Turdy at tonight anyway?

In the presser Hoyer said that he still thinks this is his team. Your average QBR of 52 over the past 3 weeks says otherwise. If Kojak announces that Mr. MaGoo is going to start Wednesday, Haslam will have him denutted.

BR1986FB;1680364 wrote:You leave Manziel in the rest of the season. This team isn't making the playoffs and Hoyer has thrown 1 TD & 6 INT's in his last three games. Hoyer's one thing he had to hang his hat on was protecting the ball. That has all gone out the window. Manziel isn't leading this team to the playoffs but might as well see what they've got.

I agree with this. You find out NOW what you have, so we don't go through this whole "do we have our QB?" again next year. Hell he may make the playoffs...we won 7 games with average-below average QB play, whats to say the lil punk ass gunslinger won't get us to 10 wins. If he sucks...you have two first round picks next year to move far enough up to get your QB.

Footwedge;1680500 wrote:Will get up at 6 o'clock tomorrow just to listen to the brilliant and eloquent Chuck Booms cram a bucket of STFU up Kylie's ass. As recently as last Thursday, Kylie clamored that only morons would want to see this team play Manziel over Hoyer. But, but, but, 10-4...10-4!

You would have thought that given the fact that Hoyer was able to only put up 3 points in 3 1/2 quarters against the Bills defense, that rookie Johnnie would struggle. LOL...3 minutes...80 yards...7 points.

Where's Al Turdy at tonight anyway?

I have no idea what ANY of this has to do with Justin Gilbert or what I posted.

I heard your chubby little butt buddy Booms slamming Hoyer again this morning. Typical Booms, beating a dead horse....pissing on Hoyer's grave, just like assholes like you & Iggy. Booms has given Hoyer NO credit/praise for the fact that he's gotten this team to 7 wins. Yes, they have won a game or two in spite of Hoyer but in the wins, he played pretty decent.

bases_loaded;1680517 wrote:I agree with this. You find out NOW what you have, so we don't go through this whole "do we have our QB?" again next year. Hell he may make the playoffs...we won 7 games with average-below average QB play, whats to say the lil punk ass gunslinger won't get us to 10 wins. If he sucks...you have two first round picks next year to move far enough up to get your QB.

No thanks. I'll give a 1st round rookie QB more than 4 games(3 of which are against good teams) before I decide to give up the draft to move up and grab another QB. We have plenty of other needs for those 2 first rounders.

I'm not saying he has to win the 4 games. But you'll know in those 4 if he's going to be capable of leading an NFL team. You have no idea when he's on the bench.


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Rotinaj;1680522 wrote:No thanks. I'll give a 1st round rookie QB more than 4 games(3 of which are against good teams) before I decide to give up the draft to move up and grab another QB. We have plenty of other needs for those 2 first rounders.

I have to agree with this. If they were going to evaluate the QB situation, they should've pulled the plug on the Hoyer experiment a lot earlier in the year. Four games isn't much of a body of work to judge Manziel on.

Still thinking an O-Lineman (for the right side of the line), a TE and use the rest on defense. I'd also take a flier on a center somewhere in the mid/later rounds since there's not a lot of depth there and Mack can opt out of his current deal after 2 years if he doesn't like the teams direction.

I said before the season started, that it wouldn't hurt Manziel to hold a clipboard for a half a season in much the same way that Bernie Kosar did. Well, that half season has gone by, and I wouldn't mind the reigns turned over to him. Very few people on this thread thought that Hoyer was going to be the QB next year.....he was going to either lose the job, like he did yesterday, or he'd play his way to a free agent that the Browns wouldn't want to pay for.
That said, If Pettine wants to start with Hoyer next week, I'd be okay with that, but another loss really takes us realistically out of playoff contention, and at that point it should be all Johnny. I have no illusions that Johnny Manziel could lead us to the playoffs this year.

The Browns have Indy at home next week correct? I don't see how you don't go with hoyer against a defense that won't pressure him like buffalo and Atlanta did, and we still aren't technically out of playoff contention.

And take a chill pill if you are about to respond to this post with a "but JFF is going to canton!!!! You hoyer nutsack loving douche!!!"

I'm not at all saying he is our QB of the future. Just that he has done exactly what has been asked of him (minus the last two games..) and has, at the very least, gotten the Browns back to relevancy. Which is better than the last 20 QBs have done so before I throw the guy under the bus and call him a bum for the last few weeks, I'll give him some credit for doing what this franchise desperately needed.

If they were to start Hoyer against Indy, the leash would have to be VERY short. Right now, his confidence seems to be in the crapper.

SportsAndLady;1680527 wrote:The Browns have Indy at home next week correct? I don't see how you don't go with hoyer against a defense that won't pressure him like buffalo and Atlanta did, and we still aren't technically out of playoff contention.

And take a chill pill if you are about to respond to this post with a "but JFF is going to canton!!!! You hoyer nutsack loving douche!!!"

I'm not at all saying he is our QB of the future. Just that he has done exactly what has been asked of him (minus the last two games..) and has, at the very least, gotten the Browns back to relevancy. Which is better than the last 20 QBs have done so before I throw the guy under the bus and call him a bum for the last few weeks, I'll give him some credit for doing what this franchise desperately needed.

Problem I have with this is that Hoyer has become the "anti-Hoyer" from earlier in the season....a turnover machine. He doesn't put up flashy numbers but his one saving grace was protecting the football. I can give him a pass (somewhat) against a defense like Buffalo's but Atlanta? Their defense is probably worse than Indy's.

I think the "playoff" talk should be thrown out the window (that's not directed at you, just at people talking "playoffs" period). That's not happening. This team would almost have to win out to make it with tiebreakers.

And the "relevancy" comment cracks me up. Again, not with you but the fanbase in general. Derek Anderson made this team relevant in 2007 but all people did was bitch and moan. The same can be said for Hoyer. I'm appreciative of what he has done this year but he's a sinking ship right now.

BR1986FB;1680525 wrote:I have to agree with this. If they were going to evaluate the QB situation, they should've pulled the plug on the Hoyer experiment a lot earlier in the year. Four games isn't much of a body of work to judge Manziel on.

Still thinking an O-Lineman (for the right side of the line), a TE and use the rest on defense. I'd also take a flier on a center somewhere in the mid/later rounds since there's not a lot of depth there and Mack can opt out of his current deal after 2 years if he doesn't like the teams direction.

If the first two picks aren't for our front 7 (somebody that can provide pass rush and somebody that can stop the run), I will be pretty pissed.


Also still pretty pathetic that FW is taking a a victory lap after a crucial loss. The happiest he has been all year. How much of a piece of shit do you have to be?

I would say that I am 70/30 on who starts next week. 70% Manziel and here is why:

1. We can't run the ball against a decent/good DLine right now with Mack out.
2. Hoyer has yet to play well in a game where we couldn't run the ball. He thrives off play action and 3rd/short. When he is in an obvious passing down he struggles mightily. When the defense isn't sure, he does well. We can not consistently get into those downs right now.
3. Manziel did well his first drive, brought a "spark", etc. His second drive, where he got lucky with a Brady 'tuck rule', was case in point of what I've said all year, he is a rookie and will make major rookie mistakes. However, 12 games in it is probably time (he has sat, learned, and hopefully it worked out well, because preseason he was a disaster).
4. It is time to find out if the kid can play at the NFL level. If we had a "Brett Favre" or even an "Alex Smith" at QB right now I would still say keep the kid on the bench learning, but we do not. We have a serviceable QB that is good when he as a running game and terrible when we don't. We do not have a running game right now unless we are playing a team that is terrible against the run like Atlanta.
5. Watching Hoyer's body language on the sideline and in the press conference he has lost his swagger/confidence. If he starts he will know he is on a short leash and will be scared to make a bad play. Typically when a QB is scared to make a bad play you either get a bad play or 3 and outs.

If I had to guess I would think Petine is more 50/50 on who to start.

More importantly, how many of us believe that Booms, Failwedge, and IQQY were all jizzing in their pants when Manziel ran in for the TD?

like_that;1680530 wrote:Is the first two picks aren't for our front 7 (somebody that can provide pass rush and somebody that can stop the run), I will be pretty pissed.


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Yeah, Mingo was a very bad pick. I think Sheard will be gone and Kruger is just a high motor guy. Not an athletic freak but he usually plays nonstop. On the D-Line, I think Phil Taylor may be gone so they will need a run stuffer up there.

It's really baffling that since 1999 it seems like this team has never been good against the run. You'd think in one season the proverbial "blind squirrel" would find a nut.

jmog;1680531 wrote:I would say that I am 70/30 on who starts next week. 70% Manziel and here is why:

1. We can't run the ball against a decent/good DLine right now with Mack out.
2. Hoyer has yet to play well in a game where we couldn't run the ball. He thrives off play action and 3rd/short. When he is in an obvious passing down he struggles mightily. When the defense isn't sure, he does well. We can not consistently get into those downs right now.
3. Manziel did well his first drive, brought a "spark", etc. His second drive, where he got lucky with a Brady 'tuck rule', was case in point of what I've said all year, he is a rookie and will make major rookie mistakes. However, 12 games in it is probably time (he has sat, learned, and hopefully it worked out well, because preseason he was a disaster).
4. It is time to find out if the kid can play at the NFL level. If we had a "Brett Favre" or even an "Alex Smith" at QB right now I would still say keep the kid on the bench learning, but we do not. We have a serviceable QB that is good when he as a running game and terrible when we don't. We do not have a running game right now unless we are playing a team that is terrible against the run like Atlanta.
5. Watching Hoyer's body language on the sideline and in the press conference he has lost his swagger/confidence. If he starts he will know he is on a short leash and will be scared to make a bad play. Typically when a QB is scared to make a bad play you either get a bad play or 3 and outs.

If I had to guess I would think Petine is more 50/50 on who to start.

More importantly, how many of us believe that Booms, Failwedge, and IQQY were all jizzing in their pants when Manziel ran in for the TD?

As to 1, 3 & 5, 1 & 3 were my whole reason for giving JFF a shot, at least in the red zone. I think if Hoyer leads the Browns on that drive, they settle for another FG.

Manziel adds another dynamic (ability to run it) in the red zone that Hoyer doesn't have.

As to #5, that's what I was talking about in my previous post....Hoyer, in his presser, sounded like the guy in Animal House with the "all is well, all is well" comment when all Hell was breaking loose. He's talking the talk but his body language/swagger is saying otherwise. I think he's playing skittish because he knows his head is on the chopping block.

As far as your last comment, can't speak for FW/Iggy but listening to Booms/Kiley this morning, it's safe to say that Booms probably needed a Kleenex and a cigarette (afterwards) when JFF came in the game yesterday.

BR1986FB;1680532 wrote:Yeah, Mingo was a very bad pick. I think Sheard will be gone and Kruger is just a high motor guy. Not an athletic freak but he usually plays nonstop. On the D-Line, I think Phil Taylor may be gone so they will need a run stuffer up there.

It's really baffling that since 1999 it seems like this team has never been good against the run. You'd think in one season the proverbial "blind squirrel" would find a nut.

Mingo has sucked, he apparently is athletic enough to be decent in coverage, but will never be a good pass rusher in the NFL. He can't break a block at all, any sacks he ever gets will be when he is covering the flats and the QB rolls his way while being dumb enough to not throw it away before Mingo gets there.

In my opinion our 2 first rounders should be a RG/RT and a DLinemen. Get a right side of the OLine a stud (Greco has been good this year so possibly a RT) and a stud DLinemen (whether its a pass rusher or a run stuffer, we need both badly).

bases_loaded;1680517 wrote:I agree with this. You find out NOW what you have, so we don't go through this whole "do we have our QB?" again next year. Hell he may make the playoffs...we won 7 games with average-below average QB play, whats to say the lil punk ass gunslinger won't get us to 10 wins. If he sucks...you have two first round picks next year to move far enough up to get your QB.

Lol at having 4 games to evaluate your rookie 1st round QB and making a final decision on him. He's getting next season no matter how bad he might look.

jmog;1680535 wrote: In my opinion our 2 first rounders should be a RG/RT and a DLinemen. Get a right side of the OLine a stud (Greco has been good this year so possibly a RT) and a stud DLinemen (whether its a pass rusher or a run stuffer, we need both badly).

Generally, you're not going to use a 1st rounder on a RT/RG. Very good O-Lineman can be found in the second round (see Bitonio) to fourth rounds. I'd be looking for defense in those first two spots unless there's a Jimmy Graham/Rob Gronkowski-like TE available that won't make it to the 2nd round.

I think the defense is a few pieces away from being top notch. I'm in the minority, at least on here, where I think that corner is also a priority. I wouldn't use a 1st rounder (Pettine/Farmer might though in that Pettine loves him some corners) on one but I'd snag a very good one in FA or in the draft. Skrine is scrappy but being short kills him and I'm not at all sold on Gilbert.

Mingo has been terrible. He misses so many tackles it makes me cringe every time I see him try.

Rotinaj;1680541 wrote:Mingo has been terrible. He misses so many tackles it makes me cringe every time I see him try.

That's the disappointinf part. He seems to have good instinct, but can't tackle worth a shit. I follow Banner on Twitter because I like seeing his perspective on things, but it's laughable how much he defends the Mingo pick.

Pick6;1680542 wrote:That's the disappointinf part. He seems to have good instinct, but can't tackle worth a shit. I follow Banner on Twitter because I like seeing his perspective on things, but it's laughable how much he defends the Mingo pick.

The thing about undersized projects like a Mingo is that when they get to the league, you'd hope they'd pack some weight on their light in the pants asses. Mingo hasn't really done that, to my knowledge. It would help him a lot more, fighting off O-Lineman at the point of attack, if he did.

.pissing on Hoyer's grave

Karma's a bitch.

Hoyer's head got totally swollen and he started reading his own press clippings. When he and his agent were negotiating through the media after good games like he was freaking Brady or Manning it was ridiculous.

If Hoyer was half as good as he thinks he is in his own mind Johnny would never see the field.

I ordinarily don't like seeing people fail, but I have said since day 1 this kid is an arrogant primadonna and his true colors have finally come out. He had a sense of entitlement about this job that he never earned. It was terribly off-putting.

He got what was coming to him.

IggyPride00;1680546 wrote:Karma's a bitch.

Hoyer's head got totally swollen and he started reading his own press clippings. When he and his agent were negotiating through the media after good games like he was freaking Brady or Manning it was ridiculous.

If Hoyer was half as good as he thinks he is in his own mind Johnny would never see the field.

I ordinarily don't like seeing people fail, but I have said since day 1 this kid is an arrogant primadonna and his true colors have finally come out. He had a sense of entitlement about this job that he never earned. It was terribly off-putting.

He got what was coming to him.

Stay classy, Steeler fan.....

Mingo needs to put on at least 25 lbs this offseason. It's beyond me how he didn't put on any weight this past off season.


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Trying to adjust my expectations of Mingo. The guy had 4 fucking sacks his last season in college, hardly a sack artist. He's not a pass rusher, he's a coverage LBer that has a place in the league. We wasted a 6th pick on him, but he has value. Plays well in space, is getting MUCH better against the run (dont see 75 TD runs bc he took a bad lane/angle anymore), and is a great locker room guy. I think we'll be a better team with him not playing every down, but he's a solid OLBer, a terrible pass rusher.

HE should put on some weight though, as like_that said.