SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Apr 23, 2015 9:16pm
Max offer? Some horrible fucking players have received max offers. Doesn't make him a super star or an elite playergport_tennis;1723739 wrote:Dude averages 17 and 7 while playing the best defense in the league. How many people can legit guard Bron and Durant... He'll get a max offer in 2 seconds
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gport_tennis
Posts: 1,796
Apr 23, 2015 9:17pm
He's a very good offensive player and the best defensive player in the league, how is he not elite?
Also, he's gonna get a max contract from the Spurs. That's one organization that doesnt overpay
Also, he's gonna get a max contract from the Spurs. That's one organization that doesnt overpay
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Apr 23, 2015 9:19pm
If harden gets a max, Leonard will get a max. Why are we even talking about this?gport_tennis;1723741 wrote:He's a very good offensive player and the best defensive player in the league, how is he not elite?
Also, he's gonna get a max contract from the Spurs. That's one organization that doesnt overpay
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gport_tennis
Posts: 1,796
Apr 23, 2015 9:21pm
K Leonard is one of the best 15 players in the NBA, easily
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Apr 23, 2015 9:40pm
Why are we talking max contracts when talking about elite players? Ben Wallace, Roy hibbert, and Rudy Gay are all "max contract" guys.
GOONx19
Posts: 7,147
Apr 23, 2015 9:42pm
Leonard is a very good fit for the Spurs and has never done anything to make me think he could carry a team on his own.
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Apr 23, 2015 9:54pm
I know it's overplayed here....but MAYBE top 26 easily. But sure as hell not top 15.gport_tennis;1723744 wrote:K Leonard is one of the best 15 players in the NBA, easily
I can think of AT LEAST 20 players better/I'd rather have.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Apr 23, 2015 9:58pm
Half of his looks are wide open because of the system he plays in, not like he has to create any offense. Not even close to a superstar or franchise player.gport_tennis;1723739 wrote:Dude averages 17 and 7 while playing the best defense in the league. How many people can legit guard Bron and Durant... He'll get a max offer in 2 seconds
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Apr 23, 2015 10:07pm
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-awards-ballot-part-2-putting-in-a-team-effort/
Jazz fans might gripe over Leonard’s inclusion on the third team, since he will only finish with 64 games played. But Leonard when healthy was one of the 15 best players in the league, and one of the 10 best over the last two months of the season. He transformed into a monster and single-handedly elevated the Spurs back into the championship conversation upon his return from injury.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Apr 23, 2015 10:09pm
I'm not saying that I think Kawhi is top 15 (I don't think he is) but Lowe is one of the best basketball writers out there so if he thinks Kawhi is top 15 it's at least arguable
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Apr 23, 2015 10:45pm
I agree he's one of the better players in the league, but he's no superstar and doesn't have the capability to be. He fits into his role perfectly.lhslep134;1723763 wrote:I'm not saying that I think Kawhi is top 15 (I don't think he is) but Lowe is one of the best basketball writers out there so if he thinks Kawhi is top 15 it's at least arguable
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gport_tennis
Posts: 1,796
Apr 23, 2015 10:49pm
I don't think you realize how much better he got this year. He has a similar ceiling to Paul George, which is fucking way high
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Apr 23, 2015 10:54pm
I think you're putting too much emphasis on the distinction between the term "top 15" and the level Kawhi is at. He's at the level where there's like 8 guys that people could all feel differently about but are about equally talented in their own ways. Without looking at a list, I'd say guys ranked like 12-20ish are pretty much interchangeable depending on what you personally are looking for in a player.gport_tennis;1723770 wrote:I don't think you realize how much better he got this year. He has a similar ceiling to Paul George, which is fucking way high
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Apr 23, 2015 10:55pm
Kawhi Leonard has zero pressure on him in that system to play well, it's impossible to evaluate him as a franchise player.
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gport_tennis
Posts: 1,796
Apr 23, 2015 11:13pm
Spurs were 17th in offense and 13th overall in defense without kawhi. They were 5th in offense and 1st in defense with him. I'd say he is pretty damn important, not just a role player anymore
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Apr 23, 2015 11:15pm
I don't think that's what they're saying (well Sleeper might be lol). I think the point is: look, he might be great but we have no idea how to evaluate how good he is outside Pop's machine.gport_tennis;1723778 wrote:Spurs were 17th in offense and 13th overall in defense without kawhi. They were 5th in offense and 1st in defense with him. I'd say he is pretty damn important, not just a role player anymore
Classyposter58
Posts: 6,321
Apr 23, 2015 11:18pm
Leonard on D=in Prime Scottie Pippen. It is insane for a forward to lead the league in steals and he leads his team in +/- with 6.9 which is 1.6 more than #2 on his team, the largest split in the NBA among teammates. Also he's the reigning Finals MVP
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gport_tennis
Posts: 1,796
Apr 23, 2015 11:24pm
I guess I can see that argument, I just think its a bad argument. The numbers show "pops machine" is a .500 team with kawhi this year and a .719 team with him.lhslep134;1723779 wrote:I don't think that's what they're saying (well Sleeper might be lol). I think the point is: look, he might be great but we have no idea how to evaluate how good he is outside Pop's machine.
I think people think kwahi is the same player he was 2 years ago, but in reality he's the best player on one of the hottest teams coming into the playoffs
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Apr 23, 2015 11:31pm
Does that mean Avery Bradley, or Marcus Smart are Superstars? Boston was the 2nd hottest team in the NBA after the break.gport_tennis;1723781 wrote:I guess I can see that argument, I just think its a bad argument. The numbers show "pops machine" is a .500 team with kawhi this year and a .719 team with him.
I think people think kwahi is the same player he was 2 years ago, but in reality he's the best player on one of the hottest teams coming into the playoffs
He's a top 25 player in the league no doubt, and is definitely worthy of max money. Not sure I can quantify that to superstardom however. He still needs to make "the Leap".
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gport_tennis
Posts: 1,796
Apr 23, 2015 11:32pm
Do the numbers indicate that? Without looking, I'd say probably notHighRoller74;1723782 wrote:Does that mean Avery Bradley, or Marcus Smart are Superstars? Boston was the 2nd hottest team in the NBA after the break.
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friendfromlowry
Posts: 6,239
Apr 24, 2015 12:22am
How about that Steph Curry eh guys
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friendfromlowry
Posts: 6,239
Apr 24, 2015 12:24am
New Orleans Lolicans am I right
Fly4Fun
Posts: 7,730
Apr 24, 2015 12:32am
Wow, to lose a 20 point lead in the 4th on home court...
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friendfromlowry
Posts: 6,239
Apr 24, 2015 12:33am
Bogut's a fat POS
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Apr 24, 2015 12:43am
Joe Johnson comes to mind.SportsAndLady;1723740 wrote:Max offer? Some horrible fucking players have received max offers. Doesn't make him a super star or an elite player