lhslep134;1622485 wrote:Can't argue with that. Even though I would do it differently doesn't mean I think you're wrong, it means my approach would be radical and has the potential to fall flat on its face.

I don't necessarily think you are wrong. Nobody has tried it. I think it would take a young team to try it on.

So a potential scenario, you bring in your closer in the top of the 9th and he gets the first two guys out. 1 run game. David Ortiz/Barry Bonds in their prime is coming to the plate. You can't walk them and put the tying run on but you have a matchup lefty who is better vs lefties than your closer. So you are saying that you would go the pen and get him, the same way a lot of managers employ this strategy in the 6th, 7th and 8th innings?

TBone14;1622487 wrote:I don't necessarily think you are wrong. Nobody has tried it. I think it would take a young team to try it on.

So a potential scenario, you bring in your closer in the top of the 9th and he gets the first two guys out. 1 run game. David Ortiz/Barry Bonds in their prime is coming to the plate. You can't walk them and put the tying run on but you have a matchup lefty who is better vs lefties than your closer. So you are saying that you would go the pen and get him, the same way a lot of managers employ this strategy in the 6th, 7th and 8th innings?

Yep. If I knew Ortiz was up 3rd in the 9th and I had a lights out lefty, I would be warming him up at the beginning of the ninth.

Keep in mind when I say yep, it's not a blanket yes. It also depends on who I already have on the mound (does he have a Mariano/Chapman dominant pitch/repertoire), and Ortiz's history with him and pitchers similar to him.

Again, it's unorthodox, but I want my team in the best position to win and since I'm process and not result oriented I want to use the process most likely to get the outs I need to win.

lhslep134;1622459 wrote:Presented without comment. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ned-yost-greg-holland-using-closers-in-tied-road-games/

It was more tongue in cheek...but you gotta admit it seems like closers lose games all the time when it's tied (extras or B/T9...)

Laley23;1622529 wrote:It was more tongue in cheek...but you gotta admit it seems like closers lose games all the time when it's tied (extras or B/T9...)

Definitely. I also think it has more to do with the mental makeup of the "closer". That's why I just spent like 3 or 4 posts explaining why I wouldn't designate a closer, I want all of my relief pitchers to have the mindset that each out is equally important (as important as the last out in the game). I know that's not actually possible, but the more losses I can avoid by pitchers losing focus in a lower-leveraged situation, the better off my team would be.

Iagree with the above. I think sometimes managers need to be less formulaic....you go with what your gut is tellling you to give your team the best chance to win.

As a coach of high school level baseball and softball, I understand the thinking "If we are going to get beat, it is going to be with my best on the mound".,....but what if your 'best' at that particular moment isn't your closer? I think managers stay with the formula, because there is less criticism if there is failure.....no one can fault you if you lose a game with your closer on the mound, but people would be all over you if you took out your closer and brought in a "matchup lefty" because you thought that gave you the best chance to win...and that strategy failed.


As far as the Pmoerantz/Ubaldo trade....for god's sake let it go....Pomerantz had so many years below expectation, it is ludicrous to speculate that the Indians would have kept him longer than the Rockies did.

HitsRus;1622540 wrote:Iagree with the above. I think sometimes managers need to be less formulaic....you go with what your gut is tellling you to give your team the best chance to win.

That's why I was never a fan of Hargrove and all of his "righty/lefty" crap. I know that most managers do this but it's annoying.

lhslep134;1622488 wrote:Yep. If I knew Ortiz was up 3rd in the 9th and I had a lights out lefty, I would be warming him up at the beginning of the ninth.

Keep in mind when I say yep, it's not a blanket yes. It also depends on who I already have on the mound (does he have a Mariano/Chapman dominant pitch/repertoire), and Ortiz's history with him and pitchers similar to him.

Again, it's unorthodox, but I want my team in the best position to win and since I'm process and not result oriented I want to use the process most likely to get the outs I need to win.

Whoever was the first manager to shift his defense was probably thought to be unorthodox. I think it could work if you had a young bullpen with no stars and got them all to buy in to the fact that they have no predetermined roles. Be ready to go at any time.

^^^reps to that. I think it was Tampa bay's mgr. (Madden?) that started employing overshifts to a lot of left handed hitters.....now everybody plays them. Before you would see it occasionally used on some pull hitting big boppers, but I'm not sure I've seen a game this year where an overshift wasn't employed on somebody.


Note on tonight's game.... Johnny Manziel and Justin Gilbert are to throw out the ceremonial first pitches. last night, newly acquired Browns RB Ben Tate ATTEMPTED to throw off the mound...and bounced it in. Haha...you would think a professional athlete would be able to throw a baseball.:RpS_w00t:

Manziel should throw a football.

HitsRus;1622625 wrote:.


Note on tonight's game.... Johnny Manziel and Justin Gilbert are to throw out the ceremonial first pitches

This should be worth an additional thousand fans or so...just sayin'

Heretic;1622462 wrote:You did really well with your argument. Especially the fact you're giving Pomeranz' numbers with a team whom he wasn't traded to by Cleveland and Ubaldo's currently with a team that isn't Cleveland. While completely ignoring that neither Pomeranz nor Alex White did shit with Colorado, while Ubaldo was an important component on last year's playoff team, making it a no-brainer who actually won the trade.

Your attempts at logic are shockingly bad and your arguments are pathetically weak. You should just stop trying. Anything.

Pathetic. Who is the better value today? Answer the question. It was a really bad trade for the Indians. Really bad. Discussion over. Ubaldo was a bad risk at that time...whereby both Pomeranz AND White had huge potential. White and Pomeranz had injury laden years with the Rockies....and through the law of averages...which you and Lshlup don't understand...one of those "can't misses", well. didn't miss. Spin it all you want.

lhslep134;1622464 wrote:Enjoy that response you f*cking idiot POS, that's the last time you'll elicit a response on the gift that keeps on giving, i.e. the stupid argument that makes you look dumber every time you bring it up.

"Deal"...cry the losers.

Lol. So Pomeranz didn't miss now, based in a whole 10 starts??

Laley23;1622689 wrote:Lol. So Pomeranz didn't miss now, based in a whole 10 starts??

Can everyone just stop responding to the village idiot? Anyone with beyond a 2nd grade education knows Footwedge is wrong and being an idiot and the more people that respond the more he'll keep talking about it. He'll never go away, but listening to him argue to himself is better than his idiocy being directed at others.

Games announced to start at 9:30.

Hells yea Brantley!

Kluber not as sharp as usual tonight, so we have to get him some more runs...GO TRIBE!

vball10set;1622725 wrote:Kluber not as sharp as usual tonight, so we have to get him some more runs...GO TRIBE!

He will be fine. Long wait for the game, should settle in.

But a 1 run lead is never a safe bet.

Kluber has found a nice rhythm. Don't know how much more I'll be up for this one, though. Gotta get him a couple more runs. Hopefully he can go real deep. Would be huge for the pen with an off day coming tomorrow.

Brantley is a stud.

I know I was a huge LaPorta lover but I am glad that Brantley was the player to be named later.

Tribe offense doing a great job to regain the lead.

Kluber got rocked in the 6th. Not sure why Tito never has guys ready before the inning gets out of hand.

Dumb baseball having your 360 hitter bunting with the winning run on first in the 12th. I know it worked earlier, l but didn't like it then either. What's better first and goal at the 8 yard line or second and goal at the 5? Why not go for the knockout punch with your hottest hitter?

BOOM! BALLGAME! Finally, I am watching the game here on the west coast and was getting tired from watching this game.

I went to bed after nine innings. I'm glad at least one of us stayed up till the end