While the optimist in me would like to think we could give them a game, the realist says this one is over early. The only saving grace may be that Wooster is playing in week 11 and will not want to chance getting anyone hurt by pouring it on. They'll keep it simple and run it right at us and score all they need to in the 1st quarter.

Interesting thought: If we do get out of the OCC, would Wooster still be in week 10? We'd have to find another team in the new conference to play us a week early so week 10 could be a non-conf. game with Wooster. If that didn't happen, would that be a perfect time to scrap the rivalry altogether, or just play it in week 3?

Old Rider;1667486 wrote:Congrats to Woo on your 4th playoff appearance! You guys are post-season regulars now!

Thanks for the back-handed compliment. You don't seem to be handling the fact that the shoe is on the other foot. You sure enjoyed rubbing it in when Wooster was down and you were running up scores. How's it taste now?

To the polite Rider faithful. I think the time is now to end the series all together honestly.

Here we go again...get out of the conference blah blah blha...have we not been down this a million times? There is nowhere to go! Furthermore, put us in any conference you want and we are still terrible. Stop with the conference talk you are where you are and it is time to deal with it. Fix what you can fix. For example weight room work. I have heard from very good source that says these boys did not put in the time here. What is the weight room to nice for you so you don't want to work hard? Maybe they are soft because to much has been given! Fix yourselves and don't worry about the conference. I am so tired of the belly aching about it.

Is this what is being taught by the parents....if you can't win where you are look for somewhere else that will be easier. This is ridiculous. Why don't we try getting stronger and faster. It starts with kids that put in the work when nobody is watching and you know where it shows up....not in practice...not in the summer....it shows up on Friday Nights under the lights...It shows up in the W column of you record.

There are things that can be fixed...I want to know who is the strongest kid on this years team? What are the weights on his measurable lifts? I bet there are people posting on here that are much stronger than what these kids have to offer. That is stuff you can control. Work harder.

One more thing should we have ended the rivalry when we were kicking the [EMAIL="$@%t"]$@%t[/EMAIL] out of Wooster in the 90's? No we should not. It is a good rivalry and needs to continue it will bounce back again but we have to get better.

By the way I rooted for Wooster every game when I was in HS except one. Why because it would hurt them worse to beat them in week 10 with something on the line. I wanted to take it from them!

CCRolly;1667523 wrote:Thanks for the back-handed compliment. You don't seem to be handling the fact that the shoe is on the other foot. You sure enjoyed rubbing it in when Wooster was down and you were running up scores. How's it taste now?

To the polite Rider faithful. I think the time is now to end the series all together honestly.

You're welcome! Give a jab and take a jab...you should be proud of those 4 appearances....right?
No...I can't stand losing...period! Graduated in 95 and we beat you guys 40-0, but our starters didn't play from mid 3rd qrtr on. It could have been worse. I don't recall Mac EVER running it up! Now, MO...he was known for keeping the pedal to the metal a time or two!!

I don't think we should EVER quit playing Wooster. It has been a GREAT game for too many years to just let it end for one reason or the other. The only way this game ever ends will be if Orrville leaves the OCC and scheduling this game becomes impossible!

O-Trap;1667493 wrote:Man, some of you guys fight almost as much as the Waynedale crowd.

Here's hoping that Orrville plays a good game this week. A wise mentor of mine always reminded me that how you finish is more important than how you start.

Wow really? How you finish is more important than how you start?? I've been saying that over and over and over! Finally a man with a good post!! It doesn't happen in Orrville. This team has constantly got worse as the season goes on. Again and again. I have yet to see anyone mention looking at Davault and whether or not he should be back next year. So we have kids don't work hard in the weight room,
The program needs reevaluated and not one mention of Doug! I really don't get it. If the kids don't put in work in the offseason that is a direct reflection of the chief at the top. Yes he can control it so don't give me that excuse either!!

Red Rider Nation;1667621 wrote:Wow really? How you finish is more important than how you start?? I've been saying that over and over and over! Finally a man with a good post!! It doesn't happen in Orrville. This team has constantly got worse as the season goes on. Again and again. I have yet to see anyone mention looking at Davault and whether or not he should be back next year. So we have kids don't work hard in the weight room,
The program needs reevaluated and not one mention of Doug! I really don't get it. If the kids don't put in work in the offseason that is a direct reflection of the chief at the top. Yes he can control it so don't give me that excuse either!!

You are so out of touch with how things are right now it is hilarious! Davault would love to do the things that all of us think we would do in the program. One giant problem if he did there would not be enough to field a team. That is not BS either. If you forced this group of mostly soft kids to do what is required there would not be 11 left. This week we will probably be dressing a total of what 22?

You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink....These kids are not willing to do the work in the offseason to get better...and you know what if they did they would be better and still not good.

I have yet to see anyone mention looking at Davault and whether or not he should be back next year.

Red rider Nation,

I don't think anyone who really understands football, and the history of the program doesn't think there is a need to ask some serious questions top to bottom at the end of the season. I do think it is just a little short sighted to lay ALL the blame on the coach without taking some other factors into consideration. When we do that it looks like we have an axe to grind? NOW I am NOT saying he is without blame either. I have heard more than one person say the play calling has been questionable

An honest top to bottom evaluation of the condition of the program would include coaching. BUT there "seems" to be a LOT of factors at play here. And all of those may not get repaired in one shot either. Too many moving parts for a one size fits all solution to the problem. Red Rider Nation, our little town has changed brother, and we may need MORE than a new coach to influence some of the changes I am talking about...

Stay passionate and be convicted, argument and debate are the only things that influence change these days.....

This isn't judging Davault, but sometimes kids and programs need a new voice. He's obviously not inspiring the kids walking the halls to come out and play football. Is that all his fault? Heck, no. But I don't think anybody could argue that the program hasn't become stale. Look at the College of Wooster. Kids were tuning Schmitz out. A new coach comes in and with the same talent wins, what? Four more games? Orrville should move out of the OCC, get a new head coach, and drop the Wooster "rivalry". Start a new future. Stop living in the 90's.

jaco;1667942 wrote:This isn't judging Davault, but sometimes kids and programs need a new voice. He's obviously not inspiring the kids walking the halls to come out and play football. Is that all his fault? Heck, no. But I don't think anybody could argue that the program hasn't become stale. Look at the College of Wooster. Kids were tuning Schmitz out. A new coach comes in and with the same talent wins, what? Four more games? Orrville should move out of the OCC, get a new head coach, and drop the Wooster "rivalry". Start a new future. Stop living in the 90's.

Are you from here? The entire post is nonsense.

jaco;1667942 wrote:This isn't judging Davault, but sometimes kids and programs need a new voice. He's obviously not inspiring the kids walking the halls to come out and play football. Is that all his fault? Heck, no. But I don't think anybody could argue that the program hasn't become stale. Look at the College of Wooster. Kids were tuning Schmitz out. A new coach comes in and with the same talent wins, what? Four more games? Orrville should move out of the OCC, get a new head coach, and drop the Wooster "rivalry". Start a new future. Stop living in the 90's.

A move out of the OCC MUST happen. I know that rrfan doesn't agree, but we CAN'T compete in that league (talking just football). It is the sole reason that kids are not playing....they never won in middle school and the younger kids see our varsity team getting pounded every Friday. What 15, 16, 17 year old kid wants to play a sport that has ZERO reward for their efforts?? If the reward is winning, well these kids have only been rewarded 7 times in 3 years.

I still want to play Wooster.
New head coach...maybe...but who on earth would want this program right now??

I'll buy the "new voice" argument.....but it's not like Davault is chewing the kids out at every chance he gets and the kids are tired of it. That's what RRN thinks needs to happen on the sidelines when kids goof up and make a silly penalty. You think numbers and kids' motivation to get in the weightroom will get better if a new coach comes in and starts doing that?? This isn't the 80's where Smitty or Mo could verbally bury a kid.

We're regressing in RRN's eyes because the schedule gets considerably tougher as the season goes on. Does it really take me to point this out to get people to realize it?

Record of our opponents Week 1 through 5: 16-29 (1 team...Triway...with a winning record)
Record of our opponents Week 6 through 10: 26-19 (4 teams with a winning record)

See the difference?? I know statistics are tough (because they don't fit the narrative of Davault being the worst coach in history of the world), but you can't ignore them.

Fortunately or unfortunately SOMETHING has got to give....

As I take all the feedback I get from individuals I trust that have an understanding of the game and our town, there just seems to be a lot of things playing a part in our struggles. With that being said, I read a book once called "how the mighty fall" by Jim Collins (really neat book). The author takes a look at great organizations that have fallen. He asks some very simple questions in his review: can decline be detected early and avoided? How far CAN an organization fall before the path toward doom becomes inevitable and unavoidable? Can organizations reverse the course of decline?

ANYWAYS... EVERY company or organization the writer evaluated that "fell from grace" seemed to have HUNDREDS of reasons why they did and many of those reasons were accurate BUT there were LOTS of reasons. On the contrary, the organizations that stayed on top seemed to have 5 to 7 very simple "main principals" in common and those principals were the main driving force on a daily basis and everyone knew what they were.

IDK where I am going with this but it seems the Orrville program needs to get back to a handful of principals that were the backbone of building something... OR establish some new ones that help define who we are.

Keep in mind, ANY public program is vulnerable to decline There isn't a magic pill that will keep us winning for years to come.

He tells in the book of how decline is largely self - inflicted and the path to recovery lies largely within our hands.

I was told by one of my mentors in the business world that "Whenever we blame something else for our problems we immediately take away our ability to correct it"?

LOTS of moving parts here guys, the conference, lack of interest from the kids, lack of interest from the community, possible coaching. What scares me the most is that is doesn't "seem" to be just one thing. That fact will make the entire process a little more difficult. And everyone seems tired of it, community, coaches, the athletes…. So WHO or WHAT will make a stand that is strong enough to pivot this program to make a turn? Only time will tell. I just love my hometown and have so much love for a community that helped raise me. I think it will turn around, may take a few years but too many good people still there that care to let it go down the gutter.

Old Rider;1667952 wrote:A move out of the OCC MUST happen. I know that rrfan doesn't agree, but we CAN'T compete in that league (talking just football). It is the sole reason that kids are not playing....they never won in middle school and the younger kids see our varsity team getting pounded every Friday. What 15, 16, 17 year old kid wants to play a sport that has ZERO reward for their efforts?? If the reward is winning, well these kids have only been rewarded 7 times in 3 years.

I still want to play Wooster.
New head coach...maybe...but who on earth would want this program right now??

Okay Old Rider lets beat this conference thing over the head again...Here it goes...you have to have somewhere to go in order to leave the OCC. We don't. Here it comes lets go independent...if that is what you want you will be playing a bunch of private schools like ST V, Youngstowns...Does that make it better? No freaking way!

Once again I ask you what would the record be from this team in another conference? It would not be much different...lets say that we by a miracle got into the WCAL. We still stink and all these teams that we (many) have looked down on for years have the super bowl on the schedule. You want to talk a bout a bad situation....we are not good and are a marked team for the entire schedule...

I don't care about a conference championship in football...means nothing to me. I never played in a conference so maybe it is just me. Bottom line a few years ago we were deep in the playoffs...what changed? Same coach, same Uniforms, same RTR? What changed is there is no talent on the field. Now I will listen to the bickering about why that is but what I won't hear is that we have it and the coaches aren't getting it out of the players. That is flat out garbage. I would argue these coaches have gotten more out of them than many would have thought.

That is why I don't like the "we have to get out of the OCC" comments...until someone tells me a viable option the conversation is pointless. Change what you can change.

rrfan;1668023 wrote:Okay Old Rider lets beat this conference thing over the head again...Here it goes...you have to have somewhere to go in order to leave the OCC. We don't. Here it comes lets go independent...if that is what you want you will be playing a bunch of private schools like ST V, Youngstowns...Does that make it better? No freaking way!

Once again I ask you what would the record be from this team in another conference? It would not be much different...lets say that we by a miracle got into the WCAL. We still stink and all these teams that we (many) have looked down on for years have the super bowl on the schedule. You want to talk a bout a bad situation....we are not good and are a marked team for the entire schedule...

I don't care about a conference championship in football...means nothing to me. I never played in a conference so maybe it is just me. Bottom line a few years ago we were deep in the playoffs...what changed? Same coach, same Uniforms, same RTR? What changed is there is no talent on the field. Now I will listen to the bickering about why that is but what I won't hear is that we have it and the coaches aren't getting it out of the players. That is flat out garbage. I would argue these coaches have gotten more out of them than many would have thought.

That is why I don't like the "we have to get out of the OCC" comments...until someone tells me a viable option the conversation is pointless. Change what you can change.

Orrville would not stink in the WCAL this year. The WCAL doesn't have a dominant team this season. I'm guessing Orrville would've done no worse than .500 in that conference. That said, I agree with you that the WCAL will never allow Orrville to enter that conference. Even in it's current state, Orrville has more athletes than most WCAL schools. Middle of the road Orrville teams would usually dominate most WCAL teams.

I am somewhat familiar with the talent that is coming up through the elementary and middle school ranks. If Orrville stays in the OCC for football, you are looking at another 7-10 years of dreadful football seasons. They might be able to squeak out a near .500 record a few times if everything goes right.

187xovr;1668040 wrote:Orrville would not stink in the WCAL this year. The WCAL doesn't have a dominant team this season. I'm guessing Orrville would've done no worse than .500 in that conference. That said, I agree with you that the WCAL will never allow Orrville to enter that conference. Even in it's current state, Orrville has more athletes than most WCAL schools. Middle of the road Orrville teams would usually dominate most WCAL teams.

I am somewhat familiar with the talent that is coming up through the elementary and middle school ranks. If Orrville stays in the OCC for football, you are looking at another 7-10 years of dreadful football seasons. They might be able to squeak out a near .500 record a few times if everything goes right.

Again I am hearing complaining about the conference we are in but not one viable option as to where to go.

Great .500 in the WCAL...I would put that at 0-10 in most people's minds!

Is the PAC out of the question? Because I think it's a better fit across the board than WCAL. If not, then I think Orrville spearheads creation of a new conference. Nobody has ever been happy about the travel time in the OCC.

And here's why I think the Wooster rivalry dies. If Orrville leaves the OCC then they'd likely be replaced in order to keep an eight team conference. So Wooster has seven conference games and week ten is now occupied by somebody else. So at best, the two schools play in weeks 1-3. Wooster is now scheduling Medina Highland, Wadsworth and Green for their non-conference games. Those are a lot of computer points. In fact, this year just going 1-2 was enough to put them in the playoffs. If their AD drops one of those schools to play a D5 school, that guy should be fired on the spot. That's being nostalgic, not smart.

jaco;1668051 wrote:Is the PAC out of the question? Because I think it's a better fit across the board than WCAL. If not, then I think Orrville spearheads creation of a new conference. Nobody has ever been happy about the travel time in the OCC.

And here's why I think the Wooster rivalry dies. If Orrville leaves the OCC then they'd likely be replaced in order to keep an eight team conference. So Wooster has seven conference games and week ten is now occupied by somebody else. So at best, the two schools play in weeks 1-3. Wooster is now scheduling Medina Highland, Wadsworth and Green for their non-conference games. Those are a lot of computer points. In fact, this year just going 1-2 was enough to put them in the playoffs. If their AD drops one of those schools to play a D5 school, that guy should be fired on the spot. That's being nostalgic, not smart.

Last I checked isn't Manchester in the PAC? If so you will never get in there...they have said that many times. So no viable options yet...Keep going.

Going out and creating a conference...Please you don't have an AD that would be up for that task.

What about the independent members of the Mid-Buckeye Conference? Danville (D7), East Knox (D6), Loudonville (D5), and Lucas (D7) are members of the MBC, but play as independents in football. Drives are anywhere from 50 minutes to 1 hour & 10. Not much different that what we do now...and you're only driving to Knox county twice per season, not to Mansfield then Lex then Ashland then Millersburg.

Our schedule could look like this:

Week 1 - Triway (Non Conf)
Week 2 - West Holmes (Non Conf)
Week 3 - Wooster (Non Conf)
Week 4 - Akron Public School (their conf. doesn't start until week 5)
Week 5 - Toledo or Cle. Public School or local parochial (Canton CC, St. Thomas Aquinas, Hoban)
Week 6 - Northwest (Indy)
Week 7 - Loudonville (Conf.)
Week 8 - East Knox (Conf.)
Week 9 - Lucas (Conf.)
Week 10 - Danville (Conf.)

And the AD is seeing how bad football = bad gates. He is seeing why being in a competitive football conference is impacting the bottom line of all sports, so I think he would be up for creating a better situation if it was out there.

Wait a second . Our AD did spearhead a couple of tries to form a new conference and they fell apart. That was 1 1/2-2 years ago. Not much has changed since then with those perspective schools going somewhere else or deciding to stay in place. We've known for a long time this was going to happen and tried to avert disaster. Talk to me if you have any serious ideas because we're open to ideas but the idea has to have a chance of happening.

Flash;1668142 wrote:Wait a second . Our AD did spearhead a couple of tries to form a new conference and they fell apart. That was 1 1/2-2 years ago. Not much has changed since then with those perspective schools going somewhere else or deciding to stay in place. We've known for a long time this was going to happen and tried to avert disaster. Talk to me if you have any serious ideas because we're open to ideas but the idea has to have a chance of happening.

See RR1 post above...that can easily work!

Flash;1668142 wrote:Wait a second . Our AD did spearhead a couple of tries to form a new conference and they fell apart. That was 1 1/2-2 years ago. Not much has changed since then with those perspective schools going somewhere else or deciding to stay in place. We've known for a long time this was going to happen and tried to avert disaster. Talk to me if you have any serious ideas because we're open to ideas but the idea has to have a chance of happening.

Flash who is "we" are you one of the decision makers???

Redrider1 has the first potential option. Although looking at it not sure it would be much better...many of the drive times would be as bad or worse and I don't see many more wins there either...

RedRider1;1668123 wrote:What about the independent members of the Mid-Buckeye Conference? Danville (D7), East Knox (D6), Loudonville (D5), and Lucas (D7) are members of the MBC, but play as independents in football. Drives are anywhere from 50 minutes to 1 hour & 10. Not much different that what we do now...and you're only driving to Knox county twice per season, not to Mansfield then Lex then Ashland then Millersburg.

Our schedule could look like this:

Week 1 - Triway (Non Conf)
Week 2 - West Holmes (Non Conf)
Week 3 - Wooster (Non Conf)
Week 4 - Akron Public School (their conf. doesn't start until week 5)
Week 5 - Toledo or Cle. Public School or local parochial (Canton CC, St. Thomas Aquinas, Hoban)
Week 6 - Northwest (Indy)
Week 7 - Loudonville (Conf.)
Week 8 - East Knox (Conf.)
Week 9 - Lucas (Conf.)
Week 10 - Danville (Conf.)

And the AD is seeing how bad football = bad gates. He is seeing why being in a competitive football conference is impacting the bottom line of all sports, so I think he would be up for creating a better situation if it was out there.

Perfect. Play football as an independent. This would also give you some flexibility depending upon what type of team you were expecting to have that year.

RedRider1;1668123 wrote:What about the independent members of the Mid-Buckeye Conference? Danville (D7), East Knox (D6), Loudonville (D5), and Lucas (D7) are members of the MBC, but play as independents in football. Drives are anywhere from 50 minutes to 1 hour & 10. Not much different that what we do now...and you're only driving to Knox county twice per season, not to Mansfield then Lex then Ashland then Millersburg.

Our schedule could look like this:

Week 1 - Triway (Non Conf)
Week 2 - West Holmes (Non Conf)
Week 3 - Wooster (Non Conf)
Week 4 - Akron Public School (their conf. doesn't start until week 5)
Week 5 - Toledo or Cle. Public School or local parochial (Canton CC, St. Thomas Aquinas, Hoban)
Week 6 - Northwest (Indy)
Week 7 - Loudonville (Conf.)
Week 8 - East Knox (Conf.)
Week 9 - Lucas (Conf.)
Week 10 - Danville (Conf.)

And the AD is seeing how bad football = bad gates. He is seeing why being in a competitive football conference is impacting the bottom line of all sports, so I think he would be up for creating a better situation if it was out there.

Exactly. Alot of $$$ can be made with a good schedule. Our DV schedule has 50/50 drawings at a minimum of a grand and one game was $6805 this season. Good teams and good football usually bring alot of fans....and alot of fans = money all the way around for the football team, boosters, etc.

That can work for Football, but we'd have to independent schedule all the sports and that's a ton of work. We'd still be 4-6 or 5-5 and hear the same belly aching. I don't disagree that we need another conference. Just not willing to cut my nose off to spite my face.