G
Gblock
Mar 28, 2014 9:22am
so what? free market. its not cheating if you let everyone have the same opportunity. U think the big boy schools already dont have a huge advantage and arent paying money to the top players?WebFire;1597340 wrote:You can't do this. There is a reason these rules are in place. Too many cheaters.
Mr. Booster comes to the athlete and agrees to buy his shirt for $100k if he goes to school there.
W
WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Mar 28, 2014 9:40am
That's not what everyone wants college football to be. It disappoints me that college athletics has gotten so out of hand and money hungry, that we are just willing to let it be that way.Gblock;1597351 wrote:so what? free market. its not cheating if you let everyone have the same opportunity. U think the big boy schools already dont have a huge advantage and arent paying money to the top players?
Mohican00
Posts: 3,394
Mar 28, 2014 9:52am
What? So it's ok to deny personal liberties for the sake of college football?WebFire;1597358 wrote:That's not what everyone wants college football to be. It disappoints me that college athletics has gotten so out of hand and money hungry, that we are just willing to let it be that way.
I love cfb, but to say that an individual cannot sell something that has a demand to maintain the sanctity of amateur athletics is ludicrous. You cannot deny that to anyone
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Mar 28, 2014 9:56am
And they are getting compensated. Tuition, books, student assistance funds, travel expenses, gear, etc. are all forms of compensation. You might say it's not enough, which is fine, but it is compensation.I Wear Pants;1597245 wrote: If you're generating revenue from the work of someone in your organization you must compensate them.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Mar 28, 2014 10:01am
I don't necessarily disagree with what you said, I was moreso speaking to how it would end up if athletic departments had to start paying student athletes. They wouldn't have good enough economic reasons to pay athletes in non-revenue sports.OSH;1597276 wrote:They do get a return on investment. It's called "future benefactors." Just because the sports are "non-revenue" doesn't mean the sport doesn't benefit the institution in the long run (heck, or short run). Frick, for most of NCAA DI, football and basketball are non-revenue too since they cost the school money -- they are a huge burden to many athletic budgets.
For the bolded part, you already addressed the problem later in your post by talking about the spending and "arms race" that is the real reason athletic departments don't make money. Those two sports make a profit for sure, athletic departments just turn around and waste it.
W
WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Mar 28, 2014 10:23am
Yes you can. It happens in the business world all the time.Mohican00;1597366 wrote:What? So it's ok to deny personal liberties for the sake of college football?
I love cfb, but to say that an individual cannot sell something that has a demand to maintain the sanctity of amateur athletics is ludicrous. You cannot deny that to anyone
Mohican00
Posts: 3,394
Mar 28, 2014 10:30am
When is this done without the consent (usually through written agreement) of the employee?WebFire;1597386 wrote:Yes you can. It happens in the business world all the time.
W
WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Mar 28, 2014 10:54am
It's always done with written consent. Just like it is with scholarships.Mohican00;1597389 wrote:When is this done without the consent (usually through written agreement) of the employee?
Mohican00
Posts: 3,394
Mar 28, 2014 11:05am
Scholarships that can be pulled by a school on yearly basis? And voids personal liberties?WebFire;1597404 wrote:It's always done with written consent. Just like it is with scholarships.
Pretty shitty deal for the student athlete. Someone should change that
M
MontyBrunswick
Mar 28, 2014 11:06am
That's not the point I was trying to make. Public schools would be at a complete disadvantage since they're giving athletes substantially "less" money.ccrunner609;1597206 wrote:tough shit. Life isnt fair.
W
WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Mar 28, 2014 11:14am
Why do you keep adding stuff to your argument?Mohican00;1597411 wrote:Scholarships that can be pulled by a school on yearly basis? And voids personal liberties?
Pretty shitty deal for the student athlete. Someone should change that
You stated they can't deny the student from selling something. But they can. It happens in the real business world all the time. And a scholarship is a contract. The student offers their service for something in return. Just like business.
The rest of your statements are not relevant.
W
WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Mar 28, 2014 11:14am
So it should be a free-for-all? Then just have a real minor league and scrap college athletic scholarships altogether.Mohican00;1597411 wrote:Scholarships that can be pulled by a school on yearly basis? And voids personal liberties?
Pretty shitty deal for the student athlete. Someone should change that
Mohican00
Posts: 3,394
Mar 28, 2014 11:19am
Never said that. I actually agreed with your earlier post about it being controlled. Possibly through the school and capped at a certain amount.WebFire;1597420 wrote:So it should be a free-for-all? Then just have a real minor league and scrap college athletic scholarships altogether.
G
Gblock
Mar 28, 2014 11:23am
the players said this is more about having a seat at the table for the future. there number one concern is getting medical coverage for sports injuries, which currently is optional for the school to take care of.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
Mar 28, 2014 11:36am
the players said this is more about having a seat at the table for the future. there number one concern is getting medical coverage for sports injuries, which currently is optional for the school to take care of.
Of course it would be limited, and reportable. 90% of the 'violations' are over small amounts of money. Devier Posey lost his entire senior season for $1000...It cost Ohio State $millions in fines and sanctions for less than $ 10,000 worth of 'violations' committed by 8 players!It would still have to be really limited, and controlled by some organization, if not the NCAA.
A
Al Bundy
Posts: 4,180
Mar 28, 2014 12:10pm
If someone is willing to cheat the system over a small amount, what makes you think that he wouldn't cheat it over a larger amount of money? It comes down to character. Unfortunately, OSU had several players that had horrible character issues and hurt the program.HitsRus;1597435 wrote:Of course it would be limited, and reportable. 90% of the 'violations' are over small amounts of money. Devier Posey lost his entire senior season for $1000...It cost Ohio State $millions in fines and sanctions for less than $ 10,000 worth of 'violations' committed by 8 players!
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Mar 28, 2014 12:12pm
And your job can be terminated at day 1 if they want. I also can't do whatever I want at my current job; for example I'm restricted from using my company name in marketing any side business that I start or utilizing any tools learned on my current job for that side business. It's part of my employment contract and I follow it, despite giving up personal liberties, because they pay me for it. College athletes get paid and the deal they get is VERY GOOD.Mohican00;1597411 wrote:Scholarships that can be pulled by a school on yearly basis? And voids personal liberties?
Pretty shitty deal for the student athlete. Someone should change that
Football players at Ohio State get a $1,200 a month stipend if they live off campus which is enough to lease a super nice car and live in a swanky apartment; and that's only the stuff on the books.
Mohican00
Posts: 3,394
Mar 28, 2014 12:13pm
....but these aren't jobs. But if you seem to think they are, let's pay them proportional to them money that their program pulls in from their worksleeper;1597456 wrote:And your job can be terminated at day 1 if they want.
Q
queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Mar 28, 2014 12:24pm
That's not how the rest of the world gets paid.Mohican00;1597457 wrote:....but these aren't jobs. But if you seem to think they are, let's pay them proportional to them money that their program pulls in from their work
A
Al Bundy
Posts: 4,180
Mar 28, 2014 12:26pm
Most of the money is being pulled in from the name that college provides, not from the players. If a minor league football system were started that had no relationship to the colleges were started, what do you think the attendance would be when Columbus played Ann Arbor? They would be lucky to outdraw many high school games. If someone could make money on a minor league system, don't you think that there would be one in place?Mohican00;1597457 wrote:....but these aren't jobs. But if you seem to think they are, let's pay them proportional to them money that their program pulls in from their work
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Mar 28, 2014 12:35pm
They aren't jobs yet they are allowed to unionize. Do you always talk in circles?Mohican00;1597457 wrote:....but these aren't jobs. But if you seem to think they are, let's pay them proportional to them money that their program pulls in from their work
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Mar 28, 2014 12:43pm
There's the UFL. When's the last time anyone gave a flying F about the UFL?Al Bundy;1597462 wrote:Most of the money is being pulled in from the name that college provides, not from the players. If a minor league football system were started that had no relationship to the colleges were started, what do you think the attendance would be when Columbus played Ann Arbor? They would be lucky to outdraw many high school games. If someone could make money on a minor league system, don't you think that there would be one in place?
The reality is these college athletes, especially football and basketball players, are absolutely spoiled and they want more for their greed. I do agree some of the rules need to be relaxed but paying them anymore than what they get is a joke.
Mohican00
Posts: 3,394
Mar 28, 2014 12:44pm
That's the point, that's the impetus of this ya dingus. They were being treated as employees while being called "student athletes"sleeper;1597466 wrote:They aren't jobs yet they are allowed to unionize
and the NLRB in Chicago said, as such, they are allowed to unionize.But the board's decision indicates that there was enough evidence presented that the athletes are employees of the university -- getting paid in the form of scholarships, working between 20 and 50 hours per week and generating millions of dollars for their institutions.
What's hard to grasp about players being treated as employees by a university, and they call them out on it seeking better medical coverage, concussion testing, four-year scholarships and the possibility of being paid?
B
BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Mar 28, 2014 12:52pm
This is the easiest answer in my opinion. Keep the current student aid packages but just allow them to profit off of the licensing of their image, autographs, sales of their personal property like trophies, etc. This will make it so that the amount of money athletes earn is in proportion to their "talent" or fame or what have you....i.e. Aaron Craft will command more profit potential than Trey McDonald.Gblock;1597321 wrote:at minimum if they arent going to pay them should remove the restrictions on them being able to earn money on their own. i.e. starting a t-shirt company or signing autographs
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Mar 28, 2014 12:53pm
You can call them whatever you want. They are still being compensated for their efforts; I'm not sure what you are arguing but you sound like a moron either way.That's the point, that's the impetus of this ya dingus. They were being treated as employees while being called "student athletes"