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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Aug 30, 2013 10:30am
That's not what's happening here at all or in any situation wherein workers act collectively in a strike. They're trying to bargain for more than their individual marginal product for their jobs that they have now...they're not trying to sneak "up the ranks."WebFire;1493464 wrote:I understand what you are saying, and there is some merit to it. However, I look at it a lot differently. In order for the "cycle" to work, you have to go through the low ranks first. What people want is to bypass the low ranks, or make the low ranks closer the to the high ranks. This actually makes your point even worse, because you either get too many people looking for high rank jobs, or you have too many people that now stay in the low ranks, meaning others can progress through.
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Aug 30, 2013 10:34am
That's what the "or" was for. There are 2 different things there. In the strike case, they want to do the 2nd part of that statement.BoatShoes;1493493 wrote:That's not what's happening here at all or in any situation wherein workers act collectively in a strike. They're trying to bargain for more than their individual marginal product for their jobs that they have now...they're not trying to sneak "up the ranks."
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Aug 30, 2013 10:34am
Good question. IDK.BoatShoes;1493486 wrote: What's a "living wage" anyway? You can stay alive on bread and tap water.
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Aug 30, 2013 10:37am
I agree with most of this except "Even if all of them were as talented and hard working as yourself." The ones you refer to that get "left behind" with careers at low wage jobs are either not as talented, or don't have the desire to work hard. If you have talent and drive equal to this doing well with a career, then they can too. If they aren't, then they are lacking one of these criteria.BoatShoes;1493476 wrote:LOL. You should have known what I meant. Of course you should encourage hard work and skill accumulation...but your generic view of the world that skill accumulation and hard work goes along this general world wherein people accumulate more bargaining power and will produce more per capita that generates higher incomes is a caricature of the real world.
Stop pretending like all these McDonald's workers just need to work hard and be good employees and that they will end up with living wage employment...many of them are going to be low marginal product workers their entire lives. It's simply a fact. Even if all of them were as talented and hard working as yourself.
Let's be realistic. They should stop striking and demanding more pay from their employer and get to work and do their best to be one of the few who moves on to higher marginal product work. If not, they should realize they're getting compensated commensurate with their ability and production and should not demand a "living wage" above and beyond their marginal product and reduce their standard of "living" down to the level their income can support.
There is a small % that will always work low-wage jobs. The cycle allows for that %. But the % cannot be too large, or the cycle is disrupted.
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Aug 30, 2013 10:54am
Smartphone, Ipad, cable/satellite w/ at least a 60" flat screen tv, and free health care.BoatShoes;1493486 wrote:What's a "living wage" anyway? You can stay alive on bread and tap water.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Aug 30, 2013 10:54am
In obama's world it is commensurate with housing, clothing, food, health care, utilities, cable tv, cell phones, cars, and baby strollers, for you, and your dependants, along with debit cards and the ability to negotiate barter transactions with taxpayer-funded monies to obtain drugs, booze, cigarettes, tattoos, piercings, and 'designer' jeans that hang below your arse. All tax free, of course.BoatShoes;1493486 wrote:What's a "living wage" anyway? You can stay alive on bread and tap water.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Aug 30, 2013 10:57am
majorspark;1493502 wrote:Smartphone, Ipad, cable/satellite w/ at least a 60" flat screen tv, and free health care.
haha, we both hit the post button at 10:54am
Rotinaj
Posts: 7,699
Aug 30, 2013 11:47am
You forgot BMW.majorspark;1493502 wrote:Smartphone, Ipad, cable/satellite w/ at least a 60" flat screen tv, and free health care.
iclfan2
Posts: 6,360
Aug 30, 2013 12:12pm
This is my issue as well. I understand the world needs ditch diggers, but don't feed me a line of bullshit that if they make $7 an hour they can't live. I just went to the Time Warner Cable store today, it's the "1st" of the month due to the Holiday. Well holy shit, the clientele in there all paying their bill in cash from their gubment check. Some of them had a more expensive cable plan then I did! If you only make $7 an hour....Don't have kids, don't smoke, don't drink, don't have an iphone, have roommates, etc.majorspark;1493502 wrote:Smartphone, Ipad, cable/satellite w/ at least a 60" flat screen tv, and free health care.
cruiser_96
Posts: 7,536
Aug 30, 2013 12:52pm
''Why would I want to help them win a title? They're not doing anything for me. I'm at risk. I have a lot of risk here. I got my family to feed.'' Sprewell is due to make $14.6 million this year." - L. Sprewell
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Aug 30, 2013 1:02pm
The one on Lakeside I take it? How do you know these folks were using "gubment checks"? What gubment program in particular do you think allows folks to pay for cable? I wonder if people thought you were paying with your gubmint check.iclfan2;1493534 wrote:This is my issue as well. I understand the world needs ditch diggers, but don't feed me a line of bullshit that if they make $7 an hour they can't live. I just went to the Time Warner Cable store today, it's the "1st" of the month due to the Holiday. Well holy shit, the clientele in there all paying their bill in cash from their gubment check. Some of them had a more expensive cable plan then I did! If you only make $7 an hour....Don't have kids, don't smoke, don't drink, don't have an iphone, have roommates, etc.
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Gblock
Aug 30, 2013 1:13pm
thats what i was gonna say...the bank was crazy as hell today in the hood by my school...and only two tellers. wonder if they were thinking about me what i was thinking about them lolBoatShoes;1493552 wrote:The one on Lakeside I take it? How do you know these folks were using "gubment checks"? What gubment program in particular do you think allows folks to pay for cable? I wonder if people thought you were paying with your gubmint check.
iclfan2
Posts: 6,360
Aug 30, 2013 1:39pm
No, it was the one in Ohio City across from the west side market. How do I know? Because I asked the lady why it was so damn crowded and she said yea, you might not wanna ever come on the first of the month again. Same thing goes with the Steelyard Walmart. And I'm not poor, so I pay my bill on the Internet like everyone else.BoatShoes;1493552 wrote:The one on Lakeside I take it? How do you know these folks were using "gubment checks"? What gubment program in particular do you think allows folks to pay for cable? I wonder if people thought you were paying with your gubmint check.
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BoatShoes
Posts: 5,703
Aug 30, 2013 2:03pm
Did the nice lady have anything to say about gubmint checks or did you just make that inference all on your own. A lot of old school folks who work for a living still pay there bills on the first of the month. This is especially true for that area that still has a lot of those old school crusty steel mill folks.iclfan2;1493562 wrote:No, it was the one in Ohio City across from the west side market. How do I know? Because I asked the lady why it was so damn crowded and she said yea, you might not wanna ever come on the first of the month again. Same thing goes with the Steelyard Walmart. And I'm not poor, so I pay my bill on the Internet like everyone else.
The only public assistance money that could be used for something like Cable for the most party is SSDI/SSI and the benefits aren't that much and they're reserved for the disabled. A mentally handicapped dude I help out from time to time cannot afford cable on his SSDI. You're probably just projecting IMHO.
Steelyard Walmart is crowded though because of SNAP cards. But I know, I know you just want to go on under your breath about teh p00rz over by St. Malachi's
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Aug 30, 2013 2:44pm
One 'minor' aside: these aren't 'workers on strike' at all; these are community activist rent-a mobs parading around outside certain restaurants making fools of themselves. One franchisee said he never saw these people before. It is the Occupy crybaby crowd leaving Wall St and heading to Main St. .......no doubt at the behest of the Activist-in-Chief; it's all they know how to do.
Anything to get NSA, IRS, and Benghazi out of the headlines.
Change we can believe in...
Anything to get NSA, IRS, and Benghazi out of the headlines.
Change we can believe in...
cruiser_96
Posts: 7,536
Aug 30, 2013 4:37pm
What is/are the NSA, IRS, and Benghazi and why should we know about them via headlines (from a media you don't trust anyway)?QuakerOats;1493590 wrote:...
Anything to get NSA, IRS, and Benghazi out of the headlines.
...
BTW: I gave Miley Cyrus 3 out fo 5 stars for her dancing. What did you think?
#1DBag
Posts: 786
Aug 30, 2013 4:46pm
I just showed my support by eating a Six-Dollar Burger from Carl's Jr.#bangbang
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Aug 30, 2013 5:24pm
Get that conspiracy theory shit out of here.QuakerOats;1493590 wrote:One 'minor' aside: these aren't 'workers on strike' at all; these are community activist rent-a mobs parading around outside certain restaurants making fools of themselves. One franchisee said he never saw these people before. It is the Occupy crybaby crowd leaving Wall St and heading to Main St. .......no doubt at the behest of the Activist-in-Chief; it's all they know how to do.
Anything to get NSA, IRS, and Benghazi out of the headlines.
Change we can believe in...
$15 per hour is insane.
Yes, the minimal wage is still too low, when taken into account the rise of other wages over time.
$10 would be a touch too high too.
But, I agree with the overall cause. Wages are too low for those workers.
Then again, I can't stand fast food, I think it has contributed to the overall fatness of us as a country.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Aug 30, 2013 5:39pm
But outside of restaurant jobs (most of which have exceptions to min wage in the first place), what the min wage is mostly irrelevant. I don't think every job needs to pay a living wage - nothing wrong with jobs that don't mainly for HS and college kids and people in transition.ptown_trojans_1;1493630 wrote: Yes, the minimal wage is still too low, when taken into account the rise of other wages over time.
Create jobs and then you create wage competition. You don't have that with 9-10% unemployment.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Aug 30, 2013 6:09pm
If he did that, he'd have nothing to offer on any subject since his only card is to over-the-top demonize the other side while remaining blissfully ignorant of any wrongdoing by his side.ptown_trojans_1;1493630 wrote:Get that conspiracy theory shit out of here.
People like him make the poli forum more of a joke than anything else and now it seems he wants do the same here by interjecting his retarded bullshit into anything that can remotely be taken political.
Sage
Posts: 2,070
Aug 30, 2013 7:05pm
I havent read this thread but the anti-poor people in this thread i hope god is real so they can go to hell. to live in america and be anti-poor is hilariously awful. it's also telling on urself for leading a shitty, unsatisfactory life.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Aug 30, 2013 7:43pm
I absolutely am anti-poor. Anyone who is for people being poor should Go Find Themselves.
Sage
Posts: 2,070
Aug 30, 2013 9:21pm
Are you a Christian, gut?
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Aug 30, 2013 9:23pm
I am. Did Jesus advocate just giving people fish or teaching them to fish?Sage;1493689 wrote:Are you a Christian, gut?
Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Aug 30, 2013 10:02pm
gut;1493690 wrote:I am. Did Jesus advocate just giving people fish or teaching them to fish?
Jesus should put less tartar sauce on the filet of fish.