gut;1506699 wrote:I didn't say that. It just felt a little too convenient and cheap. It's on par with everything being a dream - "Dallas" got crushed for that. They did the exact same thing with that tv show - the equivalent of a reset button after they've finished throwing dirt on the grave of Heisenberg.

BoatShoes;1506683 wrote:Everyone got cut down even deeper. Everyone was in a bad spot and it got even worse. Skyler is free from Walt but now all of Walt's demons are still around to potentially harm her and her family. It got even worse. Jessie escapes from his prison but it gets even worse after Andrea is killed. Walt goes off to his prison but somewhere deep down he holds onto a pretty obvious false hope that he can still get money to his family....and it ends up even worse when Junior rejects him over the phone. Everyone went off a cliff the previous episode and then they just tumbled even further down in this one...but then Walt's ego of all things....probably both because his blue meth is said to be in circulation when it is his creation and that the Schwartz are denying that he created grey matter...Walt's Ego makes him set his drink down and decide not to wait for the police.

Manhattan Buckeye;1506704 wrote:I see part of your point, but when did all of this occur? We know that in this episode months have passed. What happened, and when?

I Wear Pants;1506701 wrote:Can you give an example of something that wouldn't be too convenient or cheap? I just didn't have that thought at all while watching the scene.

gut;1506713 wrote:Yeah, instead of beating us over the head with it, there were any number of directions they could have gone that don't rely on a hailmary to bring Heisenberg back from the dead.

He could have simply hung up the phone and resolved himself to taking vengeance on the brotherhood and/or a last ditch face-to-face appeal to his family for forgiveness. Entirely within his character. Instead they have him literally give up, one more time, and are left only with a rather miraculous way of bringing him back.

Hell, none of that bar scene was even necessary - Walt could have just told his handler "I need a car" and we would have readily understood the number of reasons why. Or he could have just sulked back home to die, and then read something in that stack of papers.

I'm not going to try to come up with something better in 5 minutes, I just know the SHOW has been better. It was manufactured drama. They are playing you like a yo-yo as opposed to telling a great story.

gut;1506713 wrote:Yeah, instead of beating us over the head with it, there were any number of directions they could have gone that don't rely on a hailmary to bring Heisenberg back from the dead.

He could have simply hung up the phone and resolved himself to taking vengeance on the brotherhood and/or a last ditch face-to-face appeal to his family for forgiveness. Entirely within his character. Instead they have him literally give up, one more time, and are left only with a rather miraculous way of bringing him back.

Hell, none of that bar scene was even necessary - Walt could have just told his handler "I need a car" and we would have readily understood the number of reasons why. Or he could have just sulked back home to die, and then read something in that stack of papers.

I'm not going to try to come up with something better in 5 minutes, I just know the SHOW has been better. It was manufactured drama. They are playing you like a yo-yo as opposed to telling a great story.

I Wear Pants;1506720 wrote:Lol so reading something in a stack of papers is better than seeing something on television? I think you're fixating on the catalyst for Walt's realization that he doesn't want to just quit and die when it's not really important. I thought it was a decent way of demonstrating that his ego is more important than his family. His family is gone and he's ready to quit but once he sees someone question his own worth he has a renewed passion to prove them wrong.

se-alum;1506738 wrote:I think the back and forth shows the ongoing fight between Walter White and Heisenberg. The Walter White in him is just ready to give up, the Heisenberg wants to fight for his "empire".

I Wear Pants;1506744 wrote:Heisenberg was never killed. No idea what made you think that.

gut;1506750 wrote:figuratively....no idea how you missed it

gut;1506651 wrote:That doesn't particularly surprise me. People LOVE them some closure, and Vince is indulging us.

But if you take the final Sopranos scene as an example, almost universally it was initially a "wtf?". To this day a lot of fans hate it, but that scene was absolutely brilliant. They hate it because everything didn't get wrapped up in a neat little bow.

Laley23;1506782 wrote:All this talk of lazy writing...and you LOVED THE SOPRANOS ENDING.

That is literally the definition of lazy writing (outside of a dream...). Writers dont know how to end a show, so they leave it open ended. Its the ultimate slap in the face and a joke of a final scene. How anyone can like the ending after the years invested in the Sopranos blows my mind. Did the writers really have THAT hard of a time letting Tony go or killing him or putting him in jail etc? For fucks sake, make a decision. Open ended endings are the ABSOLUTE WORST and the most obvious form of lazy/indecisive writing there is.

Fab4Runner;1506933 wrote:The writers don't actually believe that that was Heisenberg at the end. It's not Walter White and it's not Heisenberg. It's something and someone totally new... the final step in the journey. Heisenberg is just as helpless and worthless as Walt is now. The Nazis/Lydia don't need him, his family doesn't want him. I'm really not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

I Wear Pants;1506939 wrote:Worst episode of television of all time.

I Wear Pants;1506709 wrote:What? It was all in the episode.

Fab4Runner;1506597 wrote:Yep, it is. Especially after reading Peter Gould's thoughts on all of it.

Manhattan Buckeye;1506998 wrote:That isn't a response. I rewatched the entire episode this morning...it was filler. We have Walt and Robert Forster waxing poetic for most of the first portion of it. We have one scene of Marie...which I guess was intended to remind us she is still around. We have Todd for some reason threatening Skyler....which I suppose the writers wrapped up with the DEA interview but it still didn't make much sense. And if Vince Gilligan couldn't ruin Jesse's character more we have a "Saw" like torture porn scene with him.

Just because this is Breaking Bad doesn't mean we should all line up to perform fellatio on Vince Gilligan.

Laley23;1506782 wrote:All this talk of lazy writing...and you LOVED THE SOPRANOS ENDING. .

Fab4Runner;1506933 wrote:The writers don't actually believe that that was Heisenberg at the end. It's not Walter White and it's not Heisenberg.

I Wear Pants;1506752 wrote:He wasn't killed. Him coughing while trying to intimidate Saul was not the killing of Heisenberg.

And Walt isn't a schizo either way. Heisenberg is a pseudonym not a second personality.