Cop shoots Hofstra student in head

Serious Business 128 replies 2,608 views
LJ's avatar
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 7:33am
Glory Days;1446367 wrote:7 of his 8 shots struck the target..
And the other killed the hostage. Obviously it was at the least, 1 too many.
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LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 7:37am
Glory Days;1446369 wrote:i would actually like to hear the whole story. from what i read, there was a male in the house who fell down the stairs and closed the door and started yelling "the cops are here", thus trapping the cop, the soon to be hostage and suspect in the front room of the house.
No. The door just locked behind him and the one of the hostages was yelling that the cops where there as a threat to the kidnapper.

http://gothamist.com/2013/05/20/hofstra_student_killing_cops_didnt.php
LJ's avatar
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 7:41am
yeah, they fucked up
Officers who arrived first on the scene believed that they were confronting an armed robber but knew nothing about the hostages, the police said. That gap in knowledge was critical, experts said, possibly leading to missteps that inflamed an already dangerous situation and ultimately led to tragedy.
Most critical, experts said, was the decision by the officer who ultimately opened fire to enter the home in the first place.
That decision quite likely eliminated the opportunity to negotiate with the gunman, said Eugene O’Donnell, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a former New York City police officer. In any hostage crisis, he said, the first step for the police is to create a situation in which officers are in control.
“You arrive, secure the location and you really essentially buy time if you can; you call for negotiators,” Mr. O’Donnell said.
“The lack of time is an enemy, the lack of floor knowledge is an enemy and it greatly increases the chances of a bad outcome.”
M
MontyBrunswick
May 22, 2013 7:49am
LJ;1446408 wrote:yeah, they fucked up

Mmkay, detective.
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LJ
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May 22, 2013 8:26am
dlazz;1446411 wrote:Mmkay, detective.
No, I am pretty sure it is a professor in that article saying that they did it wrong.
W
WebFire
Posts: 14,779
May 22, 2013 8:27am
LJ;1446408 wrote:yeah, they fucked up
That article is contradictory. It makes the police look bad for the actions they took in a hostage situation, but start the article stating police didn't know there was a hostage situation.
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LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 8:45am
WebFire;1446426 wrote:That article is contradictory. It makes the police look bad for the actions they took in a hostage situation, but start the article stating police didn't know there was a hostage situation.
In a sense yes, but from what I am to understand is that they are supposed to get any civilians out first and announce that the police are there. What the article is stating is that the officer entered without knowing anything about what was going on, how many people were supposed to be in there, etc.

From what I am told in just chatting about this with an ex OPOTA official, is that the report of a gunman in the house and 2 out of 3 residents unaccounted for, that it would automatically be treated as a hostage situation. He shouldn't have gone into the house.
W
WebFire
Posts: 14,779
May 22, 2013 8:56am
LJ;1446431 wrote: is that the report of a gunman in the house and 2 out of 3 residents unaccounted for, that it would automatically be treated as a hostage situation. He shouldn't have gone into the house.
Where did you read that there was 2 out of 3 unaccounted for?
LJ's avatar
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 8:58am
WebFire;1446436 wrote:Where did you read that there was 2 out of 3 unaccounted for?
Did they have visual on them? Obviously not. Were they outside the residence? Nope. Did they know exactly where they were? Nope.

They were unaccounted for.
Glory Days's avatar
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
May 22, 2013 10:19am
Belly35;1446398 wrote:Well places first and second round, potentally grab the hostage from harms way or move position so both hostage and shooter is off balance and continue to fire and or reaim for a better (mass) area target.

we where not there so .. woulda, coulda, shouilda does not apply.
come on belly, you know that shit only happens in movies. i give you more credit than that.
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
May 22, 2013 10:20am
LJ;1446437 wrote:Did they have visual on them? Obviously not. Were they outside the residence? Nope. Did they know exactly where they were? Nope.

They were unaccounted for.
How do you know 3 people lived in the house? That is the question. I may have missed it somewhere.
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
May 22, 2013 10:21am
Glory Days;1446466 wrote:come on belly, you know that shit only happens in movies. i give you more credit than that.
Agree.
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Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
May 22, 2013 10:24am
LJ;1446431 wrote:In a sense yes, but from what I am to understand is that they are supposed to get any civilians out first and announce that the police are there. What the article is stating is that the officer entered without knowing anything about what was going on, how many people were supposed to be in there, etc.

From what I am told in just chatting about this with an ex OPOTA official, is that the report of a gunman in the house and 2 out of 3 residents unaccounted for, that it would automatically be treated as a hostage situation. He shouldn't have gone into the house.
not sure if your ex OPOTA official is still in the business, but strategies have changed. no longer do cops sit back and wait in situations involving gunmen.
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Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
May 22, 2013 10:25am
LJ;1446437 wrote:Did they have visual on them? Obviously not. Were they outside the residence? Nope. Did they know exactly where they were? Nope.

They were unaccounted for.
did they have a visual on the suspect? nope. bet you would be ripping them apart if they were surrounding an empty house and the gunman was driving down the highway with the hostage.
LJ's avatar
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 10:26am
WebFire;1446467 wrote:How do you know 3 people lived in the house? That is the question. I may have missed it somewhere.
3 lived in the house and there was a boyfriend visiting.

"He was wearing a ski mask and carrying a pistol, the police said. He held the twin sisters and the young man hostage but let the other woman leave, apparently to go withdraw money from a nearby bank machine, the police said.
"
LJ's avatar
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 10:27am
Glory Days;1446472 wrote:did they have a visual on the suspect? nope. bet you would be ripping them apart if they were surrounding an empty house and the gunman was driving down the highway with the hostage.

Nope, because she would have a better chance of living than with the cop blowing her brains out.
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
May 22, 2013 10:28am
LJ;1446474 wrote:3 lived in the house and there was a boyfriend visiting.

"He was wearing a ski mask and carrying a pistol, the police said. He held the twin sisters and the young man hostage but let the other woman leave, apparently to go withdraw money from a nearby bank machine, the police said.
"
Ok, great that you know that post-incident. Did the police have this info available to them when responding?
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LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 10:28am
Glory Days;1446470 wrote:not sure if your ex OPOTA official is still in the business, but strategies have changed. no longer do cops sit back and wait in situations involving gunmen.
Yes he is. They sit back when it's not an active shooter. This was not an active shooter.
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LJ
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May 22, 2013 10:29am
WebFire;1446476 wrote:Ok, great that you know that post-incident. Did the police have this info available to them when responding?
You would think wouldn't you since the one that left is the one that called the cops. Even more shit on the PD if they didn't ask the simple question "who all is in the house?"
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Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
May 22, 2013 10:31am
Do you remember the shooting at the cracker barrel in cleveland?
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/04/shooting_at_cracker_barrel_res.html

cops received the call of a man with a gun threatened his ex wife. the first cops showed up and waited for backup....while the gunman inside started killing. unknown number of civilians inside just like you said in the hofstra situation. what should these cops in cleveland have done?
LJ's avatar
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 10:32am
Glory Days;1446479 wrote:Do you remember the shooting at the cracker barrel in cleveland?
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/04/shooting_at_cracker_barrel_res.html

cops received the call of a man with a gun threatened his ex wife. the first cops showed up and waited for backup....while the gunman inside started killing. unknown number of civilians inside just like you said in the hofstra situation. what should these cops in cleveland have done?
I didn't say that the Hofstra situation was unknown. It should have been very known. I can tell you what they didn't do in Cleveland, the cops didn't blow the brains out of innocent civilians.
LJ's avatar
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 10:33am
Glory Days;1446479 wrote:Do you remember the shooting at the cracker barrel in cleveland?
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/04/shooting_at_cracker_barrel_res.html

cops received the call of a man with a gun threatened his ex wife. the first cops showed up and waited for backup....while the gunman inside started killing. unknown number of civilians inside just like you said in the hofstra situation. what should these cops in cleveland have done?
BTW, your link says the opposite of what you claim
Police arrived just as a man was exiting the restaurant with a "long gun," the chief said.
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MontyBrunswick
May 22, 2013 10:41am
LJ isn't going to be swayed from his (moronic) opinion. Just lay it to rest
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LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 22, 2013 10:42am
dlazz;1446487 wrote:LJ isn't going to be swayed from his (moronic) opinion. Just lay it to rest
Why is it moronic that I think the cops were wrong to shoot the girl in the head? :laugh:
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
May 22, 2013 10:42am
LJ;1446478 wrote:You would think wouldn't you since the one that left is the one that called the cops. Even more shit on the PD if they didn't ask the simple question "who all is in the house?"
If that is the case, that is a dispatch problem, not a responding cop problem. They've already said the police were unaware of the hostage.