The Wooster Daily Record had an article this week that the school superintendents have sent out a state wide survery asking other schools if they think the current OHSAA tournament format is fair. They have studied what other states do and found formats all over the board. They hope to get Ohios changed because they say private schools have an unfair advantage but admit the tough part will be finding a new system the majority can agree on. Here's a link to the a story
http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4734956

If we feel there's a competitive advantage to having more students that we split the state into multiple divisions, I don't see how you can argue against the private schools winning far more often than their percentage in the greater population.

Sykotyk

Hillard Davidsons Coach Brian White thinks differently as not only did his team beat the Cleveland Public School All Stars for the State Championship, but he also beat the Number 1 Private school power house on their way to a 2nd State Title for Hillard Davidson. Do you really thnk him or his kids would want a split State title. ?
What his team accomplished was the result of not looking for excuses on why it couldn't be done, but looking for reasons why it could be done.
I would guess that behind closed doors his staff and players think this is the reason the rest of the public schools that claim an unfair advantage are nothing but losers.

But Hilliard Davidison didn't play Mooney or Alter, either. Who knows, maybe they were better. But, we'll never know because there's a split title already in Ohio.

Sykotyk

The problem is not in D1 obviously. Any D1 school should be able to have the numbers and find the athletes to compete with any private school. The problem lies in the lower divisions where for instance, Crestview has to go up against Ursuline, a school who can draw athletes from such a larger base.

I disagree, take your smaller D I schools, Cincinnati St. Xavier for instance, not only has the "parochial advantage", they have 618 more boys to choose from than Massillon. Cleveland St. Ignatius has 519 more boys than Massillon, THEIR "parochial advantage" not withstanding. Despite Ursulines "PA", the ceiling in D 5 only allows a difference of 51 boys (the descrepency in Crestview and Ursuline is 40 boys), unlike the unlimited variety in D I.

Davidson would beat Mooney and Alter by 2 touchdowns. By the way I was at the Hilliard Davidson championship rally in the school gym and coach White spoke on this topic. He specifically said...we won our state championship with players strictly from our community not "recruited" as some other schools do. And he did mention a few schools. He simply spoke the truth. Looks like this "private" vs. "public" debate has finally pissed a few perople off. It's about time something is finally done about it.

What's the difference between a private school and an open-enrollment public school?

If it's fair, why do so many states split them?? Just saying.....

Bird Nation wrote: If it's fair, why do so many states split them?? Just saying.....

Because the whiny-ass majority wants their little whelps to have a chance to compete, and are willing to change the playing field until they can. But to claim they're doing so out of any sense of fairness is blatant hypocrisy and dishonesty for the most part.

sjmvsfscs08 wrote: What's the difference between a private school and an open-enrollment public school?

A private can deny a percentage of the population enrollment whereas a public cannot!

redstreak one wrote:

sjmvsfscs08 wrote: What's the difference between a private school and an open-enrollment public school?

A private can deny a percentage of the population enrollment whereas a public cannot!

Can deny or has denied? Why would a school refuse money, the only source of income?

We all know the answer of what the advantage is (I would expect that a schools admin would know), the public schools are full of kids that don't care and have less ambition. (as an example, I don't know the exact figures) 75-90% of private school kids participate in extra activities whereas the publics only have 25-50% participation.

Sonofanump wrote:

redstreak one wrote:

sjmvsfscs08 wrote: What's the difference between a private school and an open-enrollment public school?

A private can deny a percentage of the population enrollment whereas a public cannot!

Can deny or has denied? Why would a school refuse money, the only source of income?

We all know the answer of what the advantage is (I would expect that a schools admin would know), the public schools are full of kids that don't care and have less ambition. (as an example, I don't know the exact figures) 75-90% of private school kids participate in extra activities whereas the publics only have 25-50% participation.

I know of a total of zero private schools who have denied admission to stay at a lower division. I know of one public school which has actually padded its enrollment numbers to get more academic aid. That move could have easily caused that school a great shot at a state basketball title. I'm not against it, as it did it for the right reasons.

Know it all wrote: Davidson would beat Mooney and Alter by 2 touchdowns. By the way I was at the Hilliard Davidson championship rally in the school gym and coach White spoke on this topic. He specifically said...we won our state championship with players strictly from our community not "recruited" as some other schools do. And he did mention a few schools. He simply spoke the truth. Looks like this "private" vs. "public" debate has finally pissed a few perople off. It's about time something is finally done about it.

That's pretty funny, espcially the Mooney part.

skank wrote: I disagree, take your smaller D I schools, Cincinnati St. Xavier for instance, not only has the "parochial advantage", they have 618 more boys to choose from than Massillon. Cleveland St. Ignatius has 519 more boys than Massillon, THEIR "parochial advantage" not withstanding. Despite Ursulines "PA", the ceiling in D 5 only allows a difference of 51 boys (the descrepency in Crestview and Ursuline is 40 boys), unlike the unlimited variety in D I.

True, the advantage goes beyond enrollement and go towards drawing size. The geographical area and amount of kids Ursuline can draw from is significantly bigger then a rural public school.

sjmvsfscs08 wrote: What's the difference between a private school and an open-enrollment public school?

A couple. First, (These are not my own words, they are words of a head coach spoken to me before), Public schools have 40 or 50 pieces of driftwood walking the halls that are just there becuase they are forced to be. They have no intention of being a part of the school, they don't want to be there, they are just there. If a parent is putting out the money to have there kid in a private school, there kid is going to have a real interest in being there and will be more involved in sports and extra-ciriculars.

Second, Public schools must count kids from their district that attend JVS.

Third, and if im wrong on this please correct me. A private school can openly market their school through advertising on tv, billboards, etc... to draw in new students. I don't believe publics, even open enrollment publics, are able to do that.

Once went to a passing scrimmage that SVSM was participating. I was sitting with some of the players during break and many had not ever met before that day. Many were asking what part of Akron were they from. Something needs to be done. Don't think Private schools do not turn kids away. If the kid can not afford the tuition they turn them away, unless they are very good at a specific sport then maybe there could be some scholarship money. A public school enrolls the student period.

redstreak one wrote:

sjmvsfscs08 wrote: What's the difference between a private school and an open-enrollment public school?

A private can deny a percentage of the population enrollment whereas a public cannot!

A private school also has limited amount of classroom space too, with no intention of adding space (this is how they can control enrollment). Bottom line IMO, Privates will always have an advantage. When I was in high school (early 80's to mid 80's), I played football (in S. FL). Was a starter at an average high school as an Soph. I was recruited to play at a private school. 100% of my tution was waived. I only had to buy books (schools enrollment was approx. 150 boys and girls - 9th - 12th grade). Over half of the football team was on some sort of reduced tution. This high school was all about winning football games, bottom line. We never won a state title during my time, however, we sure made alot of noise. When you can select from a population of 750,000 (competing with half dozen other private schools that are also recruiting), you do have an unfair advantage when playing against public schools that are bound by boundries. At that time the public schools didn't have "open-enrollment" but now they have magnet programs that can draw students from all over the county. With this said, only 2 to 3 schools use this to recruit athletes, IMO.

Thanks preacher and cardsflyinhigh, I am glad someone else gets it. Cards, I am going to use that analogy of driftwood in my arguments! lol I expect the percentage of students not allowed to enroll in private schools to range from 25 to 30 percent. If you multiplied their enrollment by that number, many would at least be playing up a division. There is a problem, keep your head buried private supporters, it makes the world a better looking place to be!

redstreak one wrote: I expect the percentage of students not allowed to enroll in private schools to range from 25 to 30 percent.

Could you explain this further? Who is not allowed to enroll?

I bet if you gave the private schools the public funds per student that the publics get, they would agree to anything that you would want.

The Wayne County superintendents brought this up?! Uh-oh, I guess Kidron Central Christian is stealing all of the county's athletes. Seriously, though, Wayne County?! I would understand if say Summit County or Lucas County brought this up.....

sandwalk wrote: The Wayne County superintendents brought this up?! Uh-oh, I guess Kidron Central Christian is stealing all of the county's athletes. Seriously, though, Wayne County?! I would understand if say Summit County or Lucas County brought this up.....

This is why I have to believe the motives of those on the "unfair advantage" side are sincere, even though I disagree with them. The majority of such posts come from people whose schools aren't remotely close to state title contention even if the private schools disappeared tomorrow.

I suppose a few of them could actually be fooling themselves in that regard.

Despite Ursulines "PA", the ceiling in D 5 only allows a difference of 51 boys (the descrepency in Crestview and Ursuline is 40 boys), unlike the unlimited variety in D I.
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The difference is more than 51 boys, look at the area each draws from Crestview from their district and Ursuline from their diocese,
(and they even have some boys that actually play in the band) Let Crestview be able to attract boys from all over Ashland county, then
you would be on a more even palying field.

sandwalk wrote: The Wayne County superintendents brought this up?! Uh-oh, I guess Kidron Central Christian is stealing all of the county's athletes. Seriously, though, Wayne County?! I would understand if say Summit County or Lucas County brought this up.....

It's beacause once the post season comes around, the wayne county schools are matched up against privates in the playoffs

riders1 wrote: Despite Ursulines "PA", the ceiling in D 5 only allows a difference of 51 boys (the descrepency in Crestview and Ursuline is 40 boys), unlike the unlimited variety in D I.

The difference is more than 51 boys, look at the area each draws from Crestview from their district and Ursuline from their diocese,
(and they even have some boys that actually play in the band) Let Crestview be able to attract boys from all over Ashland county, then
you would be on a more even palying field.
[/quote]


I think you are misunderstanding me, I'm on your side of this argument, I think, I was just pointing out the difference in Div V and Div I. Division V consists of schools with enrollments between 125 and 176 boys, that is a difference of 51 boys, no matter how you look at it. Division I consists of schools with enrollments of 518 boys and up.