gut;1403872 wrote:I'd make a distinction from a school having to be ACTIVELY responsible for enforcing a code of conduct outside its walls vs. being presented with evidence of such.

I believe the school is within its bounds to apply a code of conduct to violations regardless of where those violations occur. The code of conduct stands on its own - it doesn't make sense that the location of a violation would affect whether or not you are removed. While the school is clearly responsible to enforce that within its walls, not being responsible/liable outside its walls does not mean it has no authority to act.

if it happens out of school and you keep it out of school then the school would never know about it. problem solved.

Gblock;1403858 wrote:if there is tension in the class then yes you are disrupting the educational environment and upon investigation could or could not lead to a suspension. most likely not in the situation described, most likely a warning. however if during that investigation..threats or other hateful comments were made on fb, then yes you could see a suspension..but again this is a case by case situation imo

so students are the schools bitches until they graduate and the parents shouldn't even bother punishing them because the overreaching arm of the school administration will take of all discipline? I know that's extreme, but basically schools can have as much power as they want. They just have to claim "disrupting educational environment."

I'm just not the biggest fan of schools having the ability to punish for things that happen outside of school.

hasbeen;1403880 wrote:so students are the schools bitches until they graduate and the parents shouldn't even bother punishing them because the overreaching arm of the school administration will take of all discipline? I know that's extreme, but basically schools can have as much power as they want. They just have to claim "disrupting educational environment."

I'm just not the biggest fan of schools having the ability to punish for things that happen outside of school.

well with all the increases in testing and pressure on schools they arent going to stand for any distractions or "tension" in the classroom. and again if it happens outside of school, keep it outside of school. problem solved

hasbeen;1403880 wrote: I'm just not the biggest fan of schools having the ability to punish for things that happen outside of school.

Either a behavior is acceptable or not. The only thing location changes is the school's liability/responsibility to police and enforce. A behavior unacceptable within the walls is still unacceptable outside, and as such a school would retain authority to act on violations it has knowledge of.

Gblock;1403883 wrote:well with all the increases in testing and pressure on schools they arent going to stand for any distractions or "tension" in the classroom. and again if it happens outside of school, keep it outside of school. problem solved

I agree with you that schools need to do it with the way the world works, but I just hate how the world works. lol

gut;1403887 wrote:Either a behavior is acceptable or not. The only thing location changes is the school's liability/responsibility to police and enforce. A behavior unacceptable within the walls is still unacceptable outside, and as such a school would retain authority to act on violations it has knowledge of.

Disagree. School rules do not apply to other areas. No smoking on school grounds. There's nothing wrong with smoking off school grounds, assuming the student is 18. No cursing in school. Curse outside. No problem. Inappropriate dress in school. Same deal. Saying you hate a teacher, suspension. Saying you hate a celebrity, not so much.

School rules do not apply outside of school.

hasbeen;1403889 wrote:I agree with you that schools need to do it with the way the world works, but I just hate how the world works. lol



Disagree. School rules do not apply to other areas. No smoking on school grounds. There's nothing wrong with smoking off school grounds, assuming the student is 18. No cursing in school. Curse outside. No problem. Inappropriate dress in school. Same deal. Saying you hate a teacher, suspension. Saying you hate a celebrity, not so much.

School rules do not apply outside of school.

Not all school rules are created equal, obviously. You're ignoring that the school has discretion and latitude, just as they do within their walls (i.e. not every violation of a code of conduct equals suspension or even detention). Sports teams have kicked athletes off for drugs/alcohol, even outside of school activities.

Your workplace can't fire you for smoking outside of work, either. It doesn't prevent them from firing you for other conduct issues outside of work, though.

When presented with evidence of a code of conduct violation, regardless of where it occurs, the school can act as it deems appropriate. If the community feels they are administering those standards unfairly, they can take it up with their elected Board officials or the courts. But clearly there are differences between swearing outside of school vs. making death threats and racist speech toward classmates on facebook. None of the examples you mention are subjecting other members of that community to the behavior against their will.

I don't suspect courts are going to oppose broad applications of a code of conduct provided the school did not violate any civil liberties/privacy in obtaining the information they based their decision on. Presumably courts would balance a student's right to an education with the need to foster a productive environment. That's why pretty clearly something like suspension for smoking outside of school would never hold-up, while finding the school is justified in other cases.

gut;1403903 wrote:Not all school rules are created equal, obviously. You're ignoring that the school has discretion and latitude, just as they do within their walls (i.e. not every violation of a code of conduct equals suspension or even detention). Sports teams have kicked athletes off for drugs/alcohol, even outside of school activities.

Your workplace can't fire you for smoking outside of work, either. It doesn't prevent them from firing you for other conduct issues outside of work, though.

When presented with evidence of a code of conduct violation, regardless of where it occurs, the school can act as it deems appropriate. If the community feels they are administering those standards unfairly, they can take it up with their elected Board officials. But clearly there are differences between swearing outside of school vs. making death threats and racist speech toward classmates on facebook. None of the examples you mention are subjecting other members of that community to the behavior against their will.

Let's just say I think schools' discretion has been pretty shitty for a while now.

Not trying to derail the thread...but I am curious to see what some of you think on the Steubenville rape case. Since it did not occur during school, on school property, or even in the school district, should the suspects have had no penalties from the school? Suspended from football, wrestling, etc?

Pick6;1403921 wrote:Not trying to derail the thread...but I am curious to see what some of you think on the Steubenville rape case. Since it did not occur during school, on school property, or even in the school district, should the suspects have had no penalties from the school? Suspended from football, wrestling, etc?

I haven't really followed it, so what evidence is available that the school would have seen? Otherwise why would it be different than how a school would deal with a rumor going around its halls?

I really can't get why, if I see a student assaulting another student in the hall, I'd suspend or expel him but if I see him doing it one step off of school grounds I do nothing?

gut;1403938 wrote:I haven't really followed it, so what evidence is available that the school would have seen? Otherwise why would it be different than how a school would deal with a rumor going around its halls?

I really can't get why, if I see a student assaulting another student in the hall, I'd suspend or expel him but if I see him doing it one step off of school grounds I do nothing?

Our issue is we're both speaking in extremes.

And if you see assault, you call the cops

hasbeen;1404005 wrote: And if you see assault, you call the cops

Sure. But I think the school is also within their right to suspend/expel that student because no-fighting isn't JUST about safety, and in that regard the location of the fight is irrelevant.

Schools have always sought to promote their community standards, but the real reason they didn't actively enforce that beyond their walls is the lack of facts/evidence. It's a rumor, and they don't act within their walls on rumor alone. Social media is changing that because it's changing the inability to gather and find factual evidence easily.

Pick6;1403921 wrote:Not trying to derail the thread...but I am curious to see what some of you think on the Steubenville rape case. Since it did not occur during school, on school property, or even in the school district, should the suspects have had no penalties from the school? Suspended from football, wrestling, etc?

If they signed a code of conduct agreement with the athletic department then I would refer to it's terms. Otherwise, I would refer to the student policy handbook. If the handbook doesn't address of school property activities or then I would say, in a public school setting, no.

I think the problem lies in the teachers hands wherein you are in the environment daily where the bully is right there with the victim. When they are together and not just in cyberspace, there has to be some visual evidence that there is a problem brewing. Teachers, like parents should have eyes in the back of their heads as the old saying goes. Especially nowadays when bullying is out of control.

Like the old ref commercial you make the call, and yes this happened but all names have been altered to protect the innocent! lol Last night I rode the pep bus to our regional boys semi final basketball game with 40 7th-12th grade kids. Some other local kids made the drive and was sitting in our pep section, and after the game another of our staff was walking with the front of the pep bus kids when one of the other local kids went running by and knocked down some of our kids. She turned around just as this student told our kids F you I hate F'ing Piketon and you guys can suck me! He turned around and the other teacher told him to get out of there and we walked to our bus. She talked to our kids about it, there were several jr high girls, and explained to them about the ignorance of others. On the bus she told me she thought she knew who it was and today at school asked some of the older kids who he was and they told him. What do you do about that? Our kids were under the watch of the school staff, should our school contact the kids school and let them know what he did?

redstreak one;1405884 wrote:Like the old ref commercial you make the call, and yes this happened but all names have been altered to protect the innocent! lol Last night I rode the pep bus to our regional boys semi final basketball game with 40 7th-12th grade kids. Some other local kids made the drive and was sitting in our pep section, and after the game another of our staff was walking with the front of the pep bus kids when one of the other local kids went running by and knocked down some of our kids. She turned around just as this student told our kids F you I hate F'ing Piketon and you guys can suck me! He turned around and the other teacher told him to get out of there and we walked to our bus. She talked to our kids about it, there were several jr high girls, and explained to them about the ignorance of others. On the bus she told me she thought she knew who it was and today at school asked some of the older kids who he was and they told him. What do you do about that? Our kids were under the watch of the school staff, should our school contact the kids school and let them know what he did?

No brainer. Absolutely

queencitybuckeye;1405887 wrote:No brainer. Absolutely

Reps!!!!!! x 10000