RedRider1;1473269 wrote:Guessing the Rittman's & Dalton's of the world wouldn't be too crazy about it.

Those greenies over in Smithville would probably wuss out too.

Keep telling yourself that....as you play Lincoln West

BTW...I think those "greenies" beat Excuseville on the basketball court last December (I know, they cheated, or our guys were hurt, or it was a fluke...LOL)

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1473280 wrote:I don't think any league schools would be against playing Orrville, especially in their current state. However, Orrville wouldn't be able to survive the embarrassment of losing to a Dalton or Rittman, so they will continue to look for opportunities elsewhere that still provide them with a decent excuse if they go 2-8 or 1-9.

Here is the truth^^^

RedRider1;1473808 wrote:Other than Norwayne (right now) and maybe Northwestern...there isn't a WCAL team that beats us more than 1 or 2 times out of 10.

Rebuilding mode or not....

Have you been looking into the "crystal" ball again...or should we call it the "arrogance" ball again.

rrfan;1473877 wrote:That is to much to ask from me!

stay on topic, we're not talking about the levy here.

O-Trap;1473976 wrote:Orrville would fit in rather well in the WCAL. They'd have up years, like 2011. They'd have down years, like last year. I, for one, would think it'd be pretty cool to see them in it.

As for the heated topic at hand, saying a 1-9 Orrville team (conference is no excuse for 1-9 for even a decent small school team) from last year would win at least 8 of 10 games against all WCAL teams last year, sans Norwayne and "maybe" Northwestern is rubbish. Hillsdale would have better than split. Smithville would have been around a split. Below that, it drops off pretty quickly. I could see Orrville drubbing Dalton, Chippewa, Rittman, and Waynedale at least 9 of 10 times.

Being 1-9, with the only win coming off a 2-8 D3 team, leaves little ground for saying that you'd dominate (8-of-10 or better) almost every school of a conference of schools that are about the same size as you. There's no rational justification for saying so.

I agree

rrfan;1473986 wrote:why don't the WCAL teams play some non-conference teams like Ashland, Mansfield... And see what you are made of. Put your money where your mouth is instead of constantly writing checks you can't cash.

You're playing Lincoln West....we see where the money and mouth went.

We play Lincoln West because we needed a game and I am sure all the WCAL teams were just jumping at the chance to play us. You guys are all the same. We are the NYY's of the area.

rrfan;1474030 wrote:We play Lincoln West because we needed a game and I am sure all the WCAL teams were just jumping at the chance to play us. You guys are all the same. We are the NYY's of the area.

The NYYs don't claim to be better than all the teams they don't play in the NL if they've lost 90% of the games. Just sayin'.

rrfan;1473986 wrote: Put your money where your mouth is instead of constantly writing checks you can't cash.

Nice one. :laugh:

Evidently Orrville has had a problem with writing checks they can't cash... hence the pay to play :thumbdown:. Anyways, I'm sure several teams would be open to signing up with Orrville if they had openings. People aren't scared anymore, and that's got your panties in a bunch. Keep riding coattails of teams past; we'll keep working hard and prove it by making deep playoff runs.

rrfan;1474030 wrote:We play Lincoln West because we needed a game and I am sure all the WCAL teams were just jumping at the chance to play us. You guys are all the same. We are the NYY's of the area.

LOL...yep, the only difference is the Yankees have won the big prize 26 times and Orrville has won it 1 time. Oh, and the Yankees have never gone a season without winning a home game, but other than that, sure, you can be the area Yankees if it helps you sleep at night.

as far as the Lincoln West thing, typical excuse from Orrville fan, we make fun of others schedules, but when we schedule a patsy, don't make fun of us.

RedRider1;1473269 wrote:Talked to the OCC commish recently & he said the WCAL folks would never let us in. Guessing the Rittman's & Dalton's of the world wouldn't be too crazy about it.

Those greenies over in Smithville would probably wuss out too.

I think the Smithies would be up for the challenge, at least in my opinion.

So fine...we belong in the WCAL...I made exactly that case on my blog.

Makes sense economically, geographically & by enrollment similarities

So lets have the vote tomorrow. We should be unanimously voted in right? Why is the OCC commish (well connected in the circles of area AD's) saying it would never happen? What's the problem? We're down & the mystique is gone...so easy pickings right?

Funny that its the 1-9 Orrville team (first in 40 years that everyone now thinks they can hang with, not the dominant teams of the 90's. I'd have loved to see our 1-9 team play the WCAL last year.

Would we run the table? No. Would we have gone 5-2? That's possible. Would we have gone 0-7? No.

There isn't a WCAL team that would have finished in the top 3 of the OCC last year other than Norwayne.

RedRider1;1474070 wrote:So fine...we belong in the WCAL...I made exactly that case on my blog.

Makes sense economically, geographically & by enrollment similarities

So lets have the vote tomorrow. We should be unanimously voted in right? Why is the OCC commish (well connected in the circles of area AD's) saying it would never happen? What's the problem? We're down & the mystique is gone...so easy pickings right?

Funny that its the 1-9 Orrville team (first in 40 years that everyone now thinks they can hang with, not the dominant teams of the 90's. I'd have loved to see our 1-9 team play the WCAL last year.

Would we run the table? No. Would we have gone 5-2? That's possible. Would we have gone 0-7? No.

There isn't a WCAL team that would have finished in the top 3 of the OCC last year other than Norwayne.

I'm up for it, but then, I was all for Orrville joining back in the early 2000s. Had the same discussion then, with a 2-8 Orrville team (mostly fans, but some players, too) saying they would have won the WCAL title over the 2001 11-2 Smithies.

The more things change ...

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1474046 wrote:Evidently Orrville has had a problem with writing checks they can't cash... hence the pay to play :thumbdown:. Anyways, I'm sure several teams would be open to signing up with Orrville if they had openings. People aren't scared anymore, and that's got your panties in a bunch. Keep riding coattails of teams past; we'll keep working hard and prove it by making deep playoff runs.

I'd love to play a WCAL school rather than an city school. Lets see it happen.

And Orrville isn't the only school with pay to play?

And lastly, who's "we" when referring to deep playoff runs? Are you talking about the 'Cats?

RedRider1;1474083 wrote:And lastly, who's "we" when referring to deep playoff runs? Are you talking about the 'Cats?

I took it as "we WCAL teams," but he might have been trying to be more specific than that.

O-Trap;1474078 wrote:I'm up for it, but then, I was all for Orrville joining back in the early 2000s. Had the same discussion then, with a 2-8 Orrville team (mostly fans, but some players, too) saying they would have won the WCAL title over the 2001 11-2 Smithies.

The more things change ...

Yep...the "once a decade" WCAL team has a deep run & all of a sudden Orrville's mystique is gone & they can be beat by Rittman. LOL.

We're (still) the measuring stick (that's the intent of rrfan's Yankees comment) of area football...and this thread proves it.

The more things change indeed....

RedRider1;1474088 wrote:Yep...the "once a decade" WCAL team has a deep run & all of a sudden Orrville's mystique is gone & they can be beat by Rittman. LOL.

We're (still) the measuring stick (that's the intent of rrfan's Yankees comment) of area football...and this thread proves it.

The more things change indeed....

So long as Orrville remains out of the WCAL, good or bad, they'll continue to be the "measuring stick" as everyone in the WCAL already knows how they stack up against one another, a la playing each other.

I know Schrock tried to schedule them at least a few times in the early 2000s. Maybe they didn't have matching openings?

Regardless, the hard data of recent that we have says that a team who was not undefeated in the WCAL that year soundly beat a two-playoff-win, OCC-team-beating Riders team.

O-Trap;1474094 wrote:So long as Orrville remains out of the WCAL, good or bad, they'll continue to be the "measuring stick" as everyone in the WCAL already knows how they stack up against one another, a la playing each other.

I know Schrock tried to schedule them at least a few times in the early 2000s. Maybe they didn't have matching openings?

Regardless, the hard data of recent that we have says that a team who was not undefeated in the WCAL that year soundly beat a two-playoff-win, OCC-team-beating Riders team.

Yes...1 of 8 teams from the WCAL beat us in 2011. Case closed right?

Wait, you're not going to play the "A beat B who beat C, so A could beat C" game are you?

If so then Smithville should be hanging a banner as 2011 state champs.

O-Trap;1474094 wrote:So long as Orrville remains out of the WCAL, good or bad, they'll continue to be the "measuring stick" as everyone in the WCAL already knows how they stack up against one another, a la playing each other.

I know Schrock tried to schedule them at least a few times in the early 2000s. Maybe they didn't have matching openings?

Regardless, the hard data of recent that we have says that a team who was not undefeated in the WCAL that year soundly beat a two-playoff-win, OCC-team-beating Riders team.

Even The Godfather knew when to schedule Orrville...when he had his greatest team in Smithie history which would have faced off against some of Orrville's worst teams in those early 2000's. Makes sense why he wanted to schedule Orrville then! Come full circle and here we are again. Everyone wants a piece after we go 1-9. Where was the County in the 80's 90's, Hiller and Brenner years, Simmons years??? Where were ya?

Long playoff runs??? There are two teams in WCAL history with long playoff runs... The Smithie team that lost in the title game and Norwayne 11' and 12'. Thats a 10 year gap from Smithville's run to Norwayne's run. Hardly doing it on a consistent basis!

Old Rider;1474106 wrote:Even The Godfather knew when to schedule Orrville...when he had his greatest team in Smithie history which would have faced off against some of Orrville's worst teams in those early 2000's. Makes sense why he wanted to schedule Orrville then! Come full circle and here we are again. Everyone wants a piece after we go 1-9. Where was the County in the 80's 90's, Hiller and Brenner years, Simmons years??? Where were ya?

Long playoff runs??? There are two teams in WCAL history with long playoff runs... The Smithie team that lost in the title game and Norwayne 11' and 12'. Thats a 10 year gap from Smithville's run to Norwayne's run. Hardly doing it on a consistent basis!

Just for the record, I'm pretty certain Smithville went to the final four again in 2004 or 2005. That would make it a 6-7 year gap.

RedRider1;1474102 wrote:Yes...1 of 8 teams from the WCAL beat us in 2011. Case closed right?

Wait, you're not going to play the "A beat B who beat C, so A could beat C" game are you?

If so then Smithville should be hanging a banner as 2011 state champs.

A-to-B-to-C is, of course, not as relevant a statistic because degrees of separation make it so.

The only EVIDENCE we have in recent history is a single game, and the facts immediately surrounding it.

Norwayne was not completely in a league of its own in the WCAL that year. There were two teams that gave them absurdly good games. One won. One lost. Both those teams, however, can be said to have been in Norwayne's league, as far as team quality. They didn't stand head and shoulders over every other team in the conference as some kind of rare anomaly.

That's some of what we know about the winning team of that one matchup between Orrville and a WCAL team.

Orrville went 7-3 playing in the OCC, and won games against teams that allowed them to take the region's #2 ranking going into the post-season. They obviously did not play a weak schedule being ranked so highly with just seven wins, one of which was against eventual playoff-bound Northwestern in D3.

That's what we know about the losing team of that one matchup between Orrville and a WCAL team.

I, for one, am not suggesting that Orrville would be the whipping boy of the WCAL, by any stretch. I'm even admitting that, as a whole, the WCAL was weaker than the OCC (a 4-4 or 5-3 conference record for Orrville in the WCAL was what I suggested would be likely ... more than they got in the OCC).

However, to expect that there is something magical about going to Orrville that just makes them a better team is naive at best. Similar draw. Similar size. Similar location. Stands to reason, logically, that they are a similar team.

I'm not submitting to you that Orrville is not as good as you think they are. I'm simply submitting that, perhaps, the WCAL is better than you think it is.

For what it's worth, Smithville was in D5, so beating the D4 state champs is irrelevant to the D5 title. But I know that wasn't your point.

Old Rider;1474106 wrote:Even The Godfather knew when to schedule Orrville...when he had his greatest team in Smithie history which would have faced off against some of Orrville's worst teams in those early 2000's. Makes sense why he wanted to schedule Orrville then! Come full circle and here we are again. Everyone wants a piece after we go 1-9. Where was the County in the 80's 90's, Hiller and Brenner years, Simmons years??? Where were ya?

Long playoff runs??? There are two teams in WCAL history with long playoff runs... The Smithie team that lost in the title game and Norwayne 11' and 12'.

Smithville '04 did go as far as Norwayne in 2012, I believe. Just saying.

As for what is considered "long" for a playoff run ... if you have a winning record in the playoffs, I'd say it was at least somewhat long.

As for when Schrock was trying to schedule Orrville, I believe it was as early as going into the 1999, and I know it was at least heading into the 2004 season. I believe Orrville had some good years in there, yes?

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1474142 wrote:Just for the record, I'm pretty certain Smithville went to the final four again in 2004 or 2005. That would make it a 6-7 year gap.

Splitting hairs...The fact that this thread has come to life shows the importance of Orrville. You are on the Orrville thread.

rrfan;1474146 wrote:Splitting hairs...The fact that this thread has come to life shows the importance of Orrville. You are on the Orrville thread.

Importance because the paths almost never cross, so nobody ever settles anything on the gridiron. If Orrville and Hillsdale switched places (not talent, just switched conferences), we'd be talking about Hillsdale.

I'm a WCAL guy, but the argument is flawed. When WCAL teams have great years they say "bring on Orrville". What about the normal years and the lousy years? Still want Orrville then? If the Riders are in your conference you don't just get them when you're good and they're down. And how about the other sports? Orrville would mop up on baseball, volleyball and probably basketball (both boys and girls). The PAC I could see an argument for, but the WCAL is just too far down the ladder as regards competition. And I would challenge any team in the WCAL not named Norwayne (a once in a generation run of athletes) to win more than 2 games in the OCC. Sure it's not the Federal League, but Ashland, West Holmes, Mansfield Sr...you get my drift. Even Wooster with 3 wins had James Preston, Cam Daugherty, Grant Stokes and Darrien Owens last season. Those guys are on another playing field compared to WCAL talent. The WCAL should be content for what it is - a rural county league that will occasionally make some noise and once in a generation produce a D1 athlete. No shame in that.

This is a serious question...How many playoff births does the WCAL have total? I am not being smart I really am curious. RR1 that is your thing...

rrfan;1474156 wrote:This is a serious question...How many playoff births does the WCAL have total? I am not being smart I really am curious. RR1 that is your thing...

Unless I'm mistaken, Smithville has 12. However, 8 were in a row from 1999 to 2006, I believe. Maybe if we can get every WCAL team to have a representative chime in, we could help.

I'm giving a thumbs up to the post by jaco. :thumbup:

Drknowitall: you came on here with the sole purpose of knocking Orrville. Plain and simple.

Then it wasn't long until O-"why don't you shut your"- Trap chimed in with his historic diatribes and wisdom.

You should pm series62 to help you two out with your arguments.

Thanks for the posts and entertainment.

BRF;1474174 wrote:I'm giving a thumbs up to the post by jaco. :thumbup:

Drknowitall: you came on here with the sole purpose of knocking Orrville. Plain and simple.

Then it wasn't long until O-"why don't you shut your"- Trap chimed in with his historic diatribes and wisdom.

You should pm series62 to help you two out with your arguments.

Thanks for the posts and entertainment.

I think there's a reference here that I'm missing.

And hey now, I kept this pretty short, relatively speaking.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1473352 wrote:This is the kind of support these local area schools need from their alumni and townspeople. I wish the Red Riders luck this season, both on the field and in the renewal. Let's get our area schools back to the level of the past where 4-5 teams were making the playoffs. While I know that it's more disappointing for the players and fans of struggling teams, it's disappointing for the county as well. I have always taken pride in the excellence of our area schools, both on the field of competition and in the classroom. Let's get the Orrville's and Waynedale's back to where they once were, and that HAS to come from support and encouragement from the community, NOT by withdrawing the support.

BRF;1474174 wrote:I'm giving a thumbs up to the post by jaco. :thumbup:

Drknowitall: you came on here with the sole purpose of knocking Orrville. Plain and simple.

Then it wasn't long until O-"why don't you shut your"- Trap chimed in with his historic diatribes and wisdom.

You should pm series62 to help you two out with your arguments.

Thanks for the posts and entertainment.

BRF- you're right, I shouldn't have posted that previous post encouraging people to support their local team.