5knots;1473211 wrote:My soph and junior years we had 33 and then 31 guys on JV and Varsity. seasons of '77 and '78. didn't lose a game either year. Numbers help but are not the deciding factor. I stopped by field last night and took a gander at the fellas. One thing that stood out is that we actually have size up front. Pretty decent looking ..just not many. Injuries are a big concern with low numbers....that could be the deciding factor on the season. that is where playing WCAL or PAC schools each week would make a difference. Playing Ashland, Senior, Madison, can beat you up over a season. I am more optimistic after taking a look in person. Seniors are gonna have to play through some ouchies.....only way we survive this year. Time to show your toughness.

I agree five knots, I took a breather from chatter, but I keep reading how small our front was going to be, but we should have a bigger line than the last couple of years, not huge but taller and heavier than the past, my son will probably be the smallest kid up front. He said they are working hard, but likes the way they are coming together, we are not long in experience but coach Steiner will whip them into shape. You are correct as others have said we can't have a string of injuries or it could go south quick.

I do think the line will be ok..got some younger kids with good work ethic (Zimmerman, Sprowls) & some vets like Brown. If we get contribution from JJ & Amir, it could actually be a strength.

Originally Posted by 5knots

My soph and junior years we had 33 and then 31 guys on JV and Varsity. seasons of '77 and '78. didn't lose a game either year. Numbers help but are not the deciding factor. I stopped by field last night and took a gander at the fellas. One thing that stood out is that we actually have size up front. Pretty decent looking ..just not many. Injuries are a big concern with low numbers....that could be the deciding factor on the season. that is where playing WCAL or PAC schools each week would make a difference. Playing Ashland, Senior, Madison, can beat you up over a season. I am more optimistic after taking a look in person. Seniors are gonna have to play through some ouchies.....only way we survive this year. Time to show your toughness.

I agree five knots, I took a breather from chatter, but I keep reading how small our front was going to be, but we should have a bigger line than the last couple of years, not huge but taller and heavier than the past, my son will probably be the smallest kid up front. He said they are working hard, but likes the way they are coming together, we are not long in experience but coach Steiner will whip them into shape. You are correct as others have said we can't have a string of injuries or it could go south quick.

Great info guys, thanks for the recon! Looks like things are getting off to a decent start. I am excited to see what these young men can do this year! RIDER DAD, keep us posted. As an outsider (not residing in the Ville anymore), those of you close to the programs opinion sure mean a lot to me personally. Good luck to your son and the riders this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sanitizer;1473344 wrote:Great info guys, thanks for the recon! Looks like things are getting off to a decent start. I am excited to see what these young men can do this year! RIDER DAD, keep us posted. As an outsider (not residing in the Ville anymore), those of you close to the programs opinion sure mean a lot to me personally. Good luck to your son and the riders this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the kind of support these local area schools need from their alumni and townspeople. I wish the Red Riders luck this season, both on the field and in the renewal. Let's get our area schools back to the level of the past where 4-5 teams were making the playoffs. While I know that it's more disappointing for the players and fans of struggling teams, it's disappointing for the county as well. I have always taken pride in the excellence of our area schools, both on the field of competition and in the classroom. Let's get the Orrville's and Waynedale's back to where they once were, and that HAS to come from support and encouragement from the community, NOT by withdrawing the support.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1473280 wrote:I don't think any league schools would be against playing Orrville, especially in their current state. However, Orrville wouldn't be able to survive the embarrassment of losing to a Dalton or Rittman, so they will continue to look for opportunities elsewhere that still provide them with a decent excuse if they go 2-8 or 1-9.

Your lumping my bulldogs in with rittman? Now your making an enemy out of me, haha. You could at least say the rittman s and chippewas, sheesh.

RedRider1;1473342 wrote:I do think the line will be ok..got some younger kids with good work ethic (Zimmerman, Sprowls) & some vets like Brown. If we get contribution from JJ & Amir, it could actually be a strength.

Someone else to watch is Conner Davis, my son said he is looking to work in the mix, it's always nice to have a couple extra guys to throw in there to mix things up on the line. Can't wait to see Zook coming around the end with Summers and Brown in front lead blocking, should be fun to watch.

RIDER DAD;1473385 wrote:Someone else to watch is Conner Davis, my son said he is looking to work in the mix, it's always nice to have a couple extra guys to throw in there to mix things up on the line. Can't wait to see Zook coming around the end with Summers and Brown in front lead blocking, should be fun to watch.

I hope we get to see that a lot this year...important for all 3 to have big years.

As they go, so does this team.

1486wd;1473369 wrote:Your lumping my bulldogs in with rittman? Now your making an enemy out of me, haha. You could at least say the rittman s and chippewas, sheesh.

I lumped those two teams out of respect saying that I think they could beat Orrville. I don't know that Chippewa would be able to do that, hence the reason I didn't say them lol. No disrespect, 1486wd, only love!

rrfan;1473153 wrote:Orrville will have a very undersized line, what is easier to do control the line of scrimmage with run blocking or slow the pass rush up to throw the ball? Honestly, you think Orrville will have success running the ball? Please tell me how?

Our line should be one of the bigger lines that we have had in the last couple of years. That doesn't mean a thing and certainly doesn't equate to wins, but they should have pretty good size up front. I would say a 230-240 average across the front.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1473570 wrote:I lumped those two teams out of respect saying that I think they could beat Orrville. I don't know that Chippewa would be able to do that, hence the reason I didn't say them lol. No disrespect, 1486wd, only love!

Orrville was 1-9 last year...but you saying that Rittman or Dalton could beat us is a joke!

One thing this group of seniors has going for them is that there are A LOT of doubters out there right now. Nobody is expecting us to be worth a hoot! If I am a senior, I take that as a direct slap in the face, get pissed off, and prove the doubters wrong. One thing we won't have on this team this year will be guys with egos who think they are better than the team. These kids are all friends and hang out together and we haven't had a class like that in several years.

As far as the OCC - WCAL discussion...I know that Coach 08 would be up for Orrville entering the WCAL! It will never happen, but I still think it fits us best (for the time being). However, when Orrville goes 5-5 playing in the OCC, what does that equate to in the WCAL?? 8-2, 9-1 and a league title. Who knows and we will never find out!

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1473280 wrote:I don't think any league schools would be against playing Orrville, especially in their current state. However, Orrville wouldn't be able to survive the embarrassment of losing to a Dalton or Rittman, so they will continue to look for opportunities elsewhere that still provide them with a decent excuse if they go 2-8 or 1-9.

Just remember that there is not one team on ANY WCAL teams schedule that compares to Ashland, Madison, Senior, or Wooster.

Old Rider;1473763 wrote:Orrville was 1-9 last year...but you saying that Rittman or Dalton could beat us is a joke!

One thing this group of seniors has going for them is that there are A LOT of doubters out there right now. Nobody is expecting us to be worth a hoot! If I am a senior, I take that as a direct slap in the face, get pissed off, and prove the doubters wrong. One thing we won't have on this team this year will be guys with egos who think they are better than the team. These kids are all friends and hang out together and we haven't had a class like that in several years.

As far as the OCC - WCAL discussion...I know that Coach 08 would be up for Orrville entering the WCAL! It will never happen, but I still think it fits us best (for the time being). However, when Orrville goes 5-5 playing in the OCC, what does that equate to in the WCAL?? 8-2, 9-1 and a league title. Who knows and we will never find out!

In all reality, my comment was more of a tip of the cap to Dalton and Rittman for developing some athletes. I'm not saying that they would beat Orrville 10 out of 10 times with the current rosters, but I think it would be around 5-5 whether or not you want to admit that. Orrville is in rebuilding mode, and with 28 kids freshman through varsity, I think Orrville will have a difficult season yet again. I wish them the best of luck, however, because they are in a very difficult league against much bigger schools. Good luck Red Riders, but maybe the time of looking down at the WCAL has passed.

Saying Rittman would go 5-5 against us is a slap in the face....whether you want to admit that or not.

Other than Norwayne (right now) and maybe Northwestern...there isn't a WCAL team that beats us more than 1 or 2 times out of 10.

Rebuilding mode or not....

RedRider1;1473808 wrote:Saying Rittman would go 5-5 against us is a slap in the face....whether you want to admit that or not.

Other than Norwayne (right now) and maybe Northwestern...there isn't a WCAL team that beats us more than 1 or 2 times out of 10.

Rebuilding mode or not....

I agree that I may have been reaching a bit saying that Rittman could potentially go 5-5. However, I respectfully disagree that only Norwayne and Northwestern would win more than 1-2 games. THAT is a slap in the face to the WCAL, especially with Orrville coming off of a 1-9 season and with only 28 kids out for football. With only 28 kids 9-12 (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that 22 of those kids are upper classmen), you have exactly enough for a starting O/D and a scout team without freshman. I think every single WCAL team has more kids than that, and half of the teams have double that. To say that no one else would win more than 1-2 games is saying that your players (experienced or not) are better than the players in the WCAL. That sentiment is ridiculous simply by the fact that the only difference is that the students live in a neighboring town. Not only that, but confidence significantly comes into play in the game of football, and while several WCAL teams aren't coming off of spectacular seasons (Dalton at 4-6, Smithville at 5-5), each of those teams should have much more confidence that a team coming off a 1-9 season with low numbers. Not to mention, Hillsdale was a playoff team last year. To say that they wouldn't win more than 1-2 games is ignorant and absurd, and it is that kind of attitude that is the reason WCAL teams would not allow Orrville to enter the league. WCAL teams respect each other, and that is obviously too much to ask of Orrville.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1473832 wrote:I agree that I may have been reaching a bit saying that Rittman could potentially go 5-5. However, I respectfully disagree that only Norwayne and Northwestern would win more than 1-2 games. THAT is a slap in the face to the WCAL, especially with Orrville coming off of a 1-9 season and with only 28 kids out for football. With only 28 kids 9-12 (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that 22 of those kids are upper classmen), you have exactly enough for a starting O/D and a scout team without freshman. I think every single WCAL team has more kids than that, and half of the teams have double that. To say that no one else would win more than 1-2 games is saying that your players (experienced or not) are better than the players in the WCAL. That sentiment is ridiculous simply by the fact that the only difference is that the students live in a neighboring town. Not only that, but confidence significantly comes into play in the game of football, and while several WCAL teams aren't coming off of spectacular seasons (Dalton at 4-6, Smithville at 5-5), each of those teams should have much more confidence that a team coming off a 1-9 season with low numbers. Not to mention, Hillsdale was a playoff team last year. To say that they wouldn't win more than 1-2 games is ignorant and absurd, and it is that kind of attitude that is the reason WCAL teams would not allow Orrville to enter the league. WCAL teams respect each other, and that is obviously too much to ask of Orrville.

So Orrville is not allowed in the WCAL because we are confident, arrogant, cocky, swag....that makes a whole heck of a lot of sense. I respect the WCAL, but you saying that because we had ONE bad year that all of a sudden Rittman and Dalton are beating us??? This is why people from Orrville do look down on the WCAL at times...because its folks like you that can't wait for Orrville to have a bad year and then we (Orrville) start hearing everything under the sun..."we could beat them, they are rebuilding because they missed the playoffs and went 1-9". Yes, we are in a lull right now, but I think the sole reason that the WCAL would NEVER let us in is due to the history of our program and the schools know that even a 5-5 Orrville team is better than most 7-3 or 8-2 WCAL teams!

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1473832 wrote:I agree that I may have been reaching a bit saying that Rittman could potentially go 5-5. However, I respectfully disagree that only Norwayne and Northwestern would win more than 1-2 games. THAT is a slap in the face to the WCAL, especially with Orrville coming off of a 1-9 season and with only 28 kids out for football. With only 28 kids 9-12 (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that 22 of those kids are upper classmen), you have exactly enough for a starting O/D and a scout team without freshman. I think every single WCAL team has more kids than that, and half of the teams have double that. To say that no one else would win more than 1-2 games is saying that your players (experienced or not) are better than the players in the WCAL. That sentiment is ridiculous simply by the fact that the only difference is that the students live in a neighboring town. Not only that, but confidence significantly comes into play in the game of football, and while several WCAL teams aren't coming off of spectacular seasons (Dalton at 4-6, Smithville at 5-5), each of those teams should have much more confidence that a team coming off a 1-9 season with low numbers. Not to mention, Hillsdale was a playoff team last year. To say that they wouldn't win more than 1-2 games is ignorant and absurd, and it is that kind of attitude that is the reason WCAL teams would not allow Orrville to enter the league. WCAL teams respect each other, and that is obviously too much to ask of Orrville.

That is to much to ask from me! Other than Norwayne there is not another team in the WCAL that I would even worry about.

Old Rider;1473871 wrote:So Orrville is not allowed in the WCAL because we are confident, arrogant, cocky, swag....that makes a whole heck of a lot of sense. I respect the WCAL, but you saying that because we had ONE bad year that all of a sudden Rittman and Dalton are beating us??? This is why people from Orrville do look down on the WCAL at times...because its folks like you that can't wait for Orrville to have a bad year and then we (Orrville) start hearing everything under the sun..."we could beat them, they are rebuilding because they missed the playoffs and went 1-9". Yes, we are in a lull right now, but I think the sole reason that the WCAL would NEVER let us in is due to the history of our program and the schools know that even a 5-5 Orrville team is better than most 7-3 or 8-2 WCAL teams!

I did say that the Rittman comment may have been reaching. However, the Dalton squad returns almost their entire starting lineup on both sides of the football with many of the kids having two years of varsity experience. The WCAL teams do not get respect from Orrville because of Orrville's storied past. Why would they want to let a team in the league that does not respect them? Everyone knows Orrville has had a excellent football program for decades. I have been to tons of Orrville playoff games throughout the years, and have done so cheering them on (even as far back as the '94 state title game) as I do any league school come post-season, but for RR1 to say that no team would win more than 1-2 games against Orrville outside of Norwayne and MAYBE Northwestern is incredibly arrogant and ridiculous. You do see why that would be offensive coming off of a poor season, right?

Orrville is in a conference that allows them to make the playoffs regularly with 7-win seasons because of the difficulty of schedule. The problem is, when times get tough, support seems to dwindle and numbers have dropped as a result. I think some awesome rivalries could be developed if Orrville were in the WCAL with backyard brawls versus Dalton and Smithville, but I just don't see it ever happening. The thought has been visited many times throughout the years, but has never been agreed upon, and I don't see it changing in the near future.

rrfan;1473877 wrote:That is to much to ask from me! Other than Norwayne there is not another team in the WCAL that I would even worry about.

Case in point

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1473881 wrote:I did say that the Rittman comment may have been reaching. However, the Dalton squad returns almost their entire starting lineup on both sides of the football with many of the kids having two years of varsity experience. The WCAL teams do not get respect from Orrville because of Orrville's storied past. Why would they want to let a team in the league that does not respect them? Everyone knows Orrville has had a excellent football program for decades. I have been to tons of Orrville playoff games throughout the years, and have done so cheering them on (even as far back as the '94 state title game) as I do any league school come post-season, but for RR1 to say that no team would win more than 1-2 games against Orrville outside of Norwayne and MAYBE Northwestern is incredibly arrogant and ridiculous. You do see why that would be offensive coming off of a poor season, right?

Orrville is in a conference that allows them to make the playoffs regularly with 7-win seasons because of the difficulty of schedule. The problem is, when times get tough, support seems to dwindle and numbers have dropped as a result. I think some awesome rivalries could be developed if Orrville were in the WCAL with backyard brawls versus Dalton and Smithville, but I just don't see it ever happening. The thought has been visited many times throughout the years, but has never been agreed upon, and I don't see it changing in the near future.

Your argument is horrible! You think WACL teams could beat Orrville but you would not want them in because they (Orrville) does not respect the teams in the WCAL? What are you talking about? If the WCAL really thought they could beat Orrville they would be begging to get us in. Then the big bad WCAL could beat up poor Orrville. Just one big problem you know that would not happen. Orrville would come in there and slap you all around and you know it! I would never want to go into that league because Orrville plays up. It is what makes us better, tested for playoff runs. I will take some lumps to get better rather than only preparing for one game a year in the WCAL. To be honest Norwayne should look to get out so they can play up as well. They are good enough to do that. They will have to sustain that level for a long time, but they are on the right track.

rrfan;1473924 wrote:Your argument is horrible! You think WACL teams could beat Orrville but you would not want them in because they (Orrville) does not respect the teams in the WCAL? What are you talking about? If the WCAL really thought they could beat Orrville they would be begging to get us in. Then the big bad WCAL could beat up poor Orrville. Just one big problem you know that would not happen. Orrville would come in there and slap you all around and you know it! I would never want to go into that league because Orrville plays up. It is what makes us better, tested for playoff runs. I will take some lumps to get better rather than only preparing for one game a year in the WCAL. To be honest Norwayne should look to get out so they can play up as well. They are good enough to do that. They will have to sustain that level for a long time, but they are on the right track.

Exactly-that conference has produced one good team in the last 10 years and now they can all beat Orrville? That is a joke! Give me 28 kids that want to play football and we will continue to get better by playing OCC talent-the mere thought of playing a dalton, Rittman or Chippewa is way more scary then the thought of playing D2 teams with 28 boys! I'd rather have 28 that are committed to getting better run 56 that don't care!

Orrville would fit in rather well in the WCAL. They'd have up years, like 2011. They'd have down years, like last year. I, for one, would think it'd be pretty cool to see them in it.

As for the heated topic at hand, saying a 1-9 Orrville team (conference is no excuse for 1-9 for even a decent small school team) from last year would win at least 8 of 10 games against all WCAL teams last year, sans Norwayne and "maybe" Northwestern is rubbish. Hillsdale would have better than split. Smithville would have been around a split. Below that, it drops off pretty quickly. I could see Orrville drubbing Dalton, Chippewa, Rittman, and Waynedale at least 9 of 10 times.

Being 1-9, with the only win coming off a 2-8 D3 team, leaves little ground for saying that you'd dominate (8-of-10 or better) almost every school of a conference of schools that are about the same size as you. There's no rational justification for saying so.

O-Trap;1473976 wrote:Orrville would fit in rather well in the WCAL. They'd have up years, like 2011. They'd have down years, like last year. I, for one, would think it'd be pretty cool to see them in it.

As for the heated topic at hand, saying a 1-9 Orrville team (conference is no excuse for 1-9 for even a decent small school team) from last year would win at least 8 of 10 games against all WCAL teams last year, sans Norwayne and "maybe" Northwestern is rubbish. Hillsdale would have better than split. Smithville would have been around a split. Below that, it drops off pretty quickly. I could see Orrville drubbing Dalton, Chippewa, Rittman, and Waynedale at least 9 of 10 times.

Being 1-9, with the only win coming off a 2-8 D3 team, leaves little ground for saying that you'd dominate (8-of-10 or better) almost every school of a conference of schools that are about the same size as you. There's no rational justification for saying so.

why don't the WCAL teams play some non-conference teams like Ashland, Mansfield... And see what you are made of. Put your money where your mouth is instead of constantly writing checks you can't cash.

And there were LOTS of Orrville fans rooting on the great Smithie teams of the early 2000's as well as Norwayne in 2011. I do respect the WCAL, but it never fails when Orrville has a bad year that we hear all the WCAL fans saying how their team can hang with Orrville and how they wish they could play us. We will continue to be the measuring stick for the WCAL teams even after a 1-9 season!

rrfan;1473986 wrote:why don't the WCAL teams play some non-conference teams like Ashland, Mansfield... And see what you are made of. Put your money where your mouth is instead of constantly writing checks you can't cash.

Don't ask me. I'm comparing the WCAL teams with a team that lost to those teams last year. Losing to a team really doesn't prove much.

As for teams you've BEATEN, that's a different story. Orrville beat a 2-8 team for their only win.

If you'd like, we can go back to the year prior, when a WCAL Co-Champion (that's correct, they shared the title with two other teams) handled an Orrville team pretty handily, even after said Orrville team came out of the season (in which they beat a lot of that "OCC talent" you tout so highly) with a great playoff ranking.

Old Rider;1473988 wrote:And there were LOTS of Orrville fans rooting on the great Smithie teams of the early 2000's as well as Norwayne in 2011. I do respect the WCAL, but it never fails when Orrville has a bad year that we hear all the WCAL fans saying how their team can hang with Orrville and how they wish they could play us. We will continue to be the measuring stick for the WCAL teams even after a 1-9 season!

And there were plenty of WCAL fans cheering on Orrville during the "Zwick years."

I don't know how the whole conversation started, whether WCAL fans decided to say that "their team can hang with Orrville," or whether it was some "still better than the WCAL" comment from an Orrville fan. However, Orrville will, on some level, continue to be a plum line so long as: (a) they remain close in school size, (b) they remain close in proximity, and (c) they don't join the WCAL.