FatHobbit;1374468 wrote:I'm sure there are more than a few government employees who provide value.

There is nothing the government can do more efficiently than private citizens can do it.

Cleveland Buck;1374476 wrote:There is nothing the government can do more efficiently than private citizens can do it.

I'm sure there is something they can do better.

Cleveland Buck;1374476 wrote:There is nothing the government can do more efficiently than private citizens can do it.

Not to hijack the thread of course but why do you assume that to be true?

Efficiently, probably. Effectively, likely not. There is one tradional government function where the latter is far more important than the former.

I think the creater of this thread has a fair question. Let me first say that I appreciate the service of our troops serving in war zones. But he is right - all those in the military are regarded as heros when that is not really accurate. In my opinion, this goes back to the first Gulf War. That was the first substantial engagement of the US military since Vietnam. It became very en vogue to refer to the disgraceful treatment some of the Vietnam vets received in the 1970's. To swing the pendulum the other way, the media and country created a new custom of treating all service members like heros. The easy victory in the war made this ever easier.

Flash forward to today, this attitude still prevails. In certain quarters, everyone who wears a uniform is regarded as another Audie Murphy. That is too bad because it completely diminishes true heroism when it occurs. Yes, theoretically most members of the military could be put in harms way. However the chances for many of them to see that harm is unmeasurable. THere are people walking all over this earth with no uniform on who do very heroic things and we don't even know about it.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1374505 wrote:... all those in the military are regarded as heros when that is not really accurate....

"Hero = A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life:"

If a person finds being in the military as noble how is regarding them as a hero inaccurate?

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1374505 wrote:It became very en vogue to refer to the disgraceful treatment some of the Vietnam vets received in the 1970's. To swing the pendulum the other way, the media and country created a new custom of treating all service members like heros.

IMHO it's better to respect people who may have done nothing that to trash people who were drafted.

FatHobbit;1374483 wrote:I'm sure there is something they can do better.

You would be wrong. The best thing they do is kill people, but they still waste a lot of money doing that too.

BoatShoes;1374493 wrote:Not to hijack the thread of course but why do you assume that to be true?

Because people and businesses rely on prices to determine whether or not most of their economic actions are worth doing. Prices mean nothing to the government, because they stole the money to begin with, and can always take more or just print it.

I guess the only right thing to do is to set up some parades for the IRS agents and other gubmint pencil-pushers. Who's with me? :laugh:

sleeper;1374459 wrote:There's a greater chance of dying on your way to work than in a war. FACT.

I have to agree with BoatShoes on this one. I respect military people but I will never understand the over glorification of someone doing a job that they signed up for.

I'm guessing there are VERY few who would ask to be recognized. My wife hates when she has to wear her uniform to the airport or somewhere not around base. It's very nice of people to come up and say, thank you for your service, but she and others certainly never expect it. She's said no to free upgrades on airlines and other places. She doesn't expect to be treated any different then anyone.

A guy in her unit just came back from Afghanistan. He was put in an army unit on his deployment and they were hit with an ied, 4 of them were killed. I consider them heroes! That's not a job I'd want to do, and yes they signed up for the job, but dying for your country is the ultimate sacrifice.

FatHobbit;1374512 wrote:IMHO it's better to respect people who may have done nothing that to trash people who were drafted.

I agree with you here.

I think that the notion that ALL military service people deserve our thanks is not necessarily a valid premise. Certainly military personell that serve in war zones or leave their families in service of our country deserve our thanks and admiration....but it goes too far when people extend that same gratitude to the guy that's just pushing papers in Mississippi.

to p-town....those guys in Benghazi were heros in every sense of the word and deserve the thanks and admiration of all Americans for paying the ultimate sacrifice. Those two CIA agents/ex-soldiers that stood on station providing what defense they could, waiting for help that never came....are true American heros in every sense of the word.. Chris Stevens put himself in harms way despite inadequate security because he felt it was a necessary and important part of his job...he's a hero too.

But the other "public servants"... the ones who watched the attack and could think of nothing to do....the ones who were culpably negligent and unprepared despite numerous warnings for months...the ones that claim to take full responsibility (whatever that means) but with no consequences. The ones that were packing their bags for Las Vegas.....

....ehhhh not so much.

So much indignation!

Cleveland Buck;1374398 wrote:There are a couple of reasons. First of all, the military exists to defend this country from attack, and that's what many of the soldiers believe they are doing. They are risking their lives for us every day, even if they don't understand that isn't really what most of them are doing. They deserve praise for that.

Second, the state run media propagandizes the ignorant public to deify the government's empire builders.

As for other bureaucrats, simply a waste of our stolen money. There is no basis in the law for most of their departments to even exist let alone for them to have jobs on our dime. IRS agents should be imprisoned, not praised.

I do believe you are ahead of your time putting out the next media narrative though. The government will soon enough see the need to instruct their sheep to love their IRS agents and all government employed leeches.

Cleveland Buck;1374446 wrote:Every government employee is a net taker from society. That doesn't mean the military shouldn't be appreciated for what their real purpose is.

Cleveland Buck;1374476 wrote:There is nothing the government can do more efficiently than private citizens can do it.

Cleveland Buck;1374564 wrote:You would be wrong. The best thing they do is kill people, but they still waste a lot of money doing that too.

And this is why people like the Paul family and their supporters will never be taken seriously.

HitsRus;1374954 wrote:I think that the notion that ALL military service people deserve our thanks is not necessarily a valid premise. Certainly military personell that serve in war zones or leave their families in service of our country deserve our thanks and admiration....but it goes too far when people extend that same gratitude to the guy that's just pushing papers in Mississippi.

While I think I understand what you're saying. Even though that person isn't in a military combat zone, doesn't mean he isn't making sacrifices. By leaving family and other things. So that doesn't make him a hero, but he's still making a sacrifice because he wants to serve for his country.
Plus pushing papers could be his job right now, but at any time be given orders to deploy.

He went to fight wars
For his country and his king
Of his honor and his glory
The people would sing

Ooooh, what a lucky man he was
Ooooh, what a lucky man he was

A bullet had found him
His blood ran as he cried
No money could save him
So he laid down and he died

Ooooh, what a lucky man he was
Ooooh, what a lucky man he was

The main job function of bureaucrats is to sit around all day telling each other how important they are. That includes quite a few desk jockeys in the Pentagon as well.

Why nothing ever gets cut.

Footwedge;1374971 wrote:He went to fight wars
For his country and his king
Of his honor and his glory
The people would sing

Ooooh, what a lucky man he was
Ooooh, what a lucky man he was

A bullet had found him
His blood ran as he cried
No money could save him
So he laid down and he died

Ooooh, what a lucky man he was
Ooooh, what a lucky man he was

Wow...quoting Emerson, Lake and Palmer. You truly are a child of the 60's Wedge

...not lucky men at all...but heros nonetheless.....the 'chicken hawks'.. that left them there...ehhh not so much:thumbdown:

For the most part, the blind praise of the military picked up again post-9/11. It seems like that goes hand in hand with war times, and winds back down in peace time

In related news - I know this is mind-blowingly shocking - Pelosi on Bill Maher said "we have to get back to creating more public jobs....and private sector jobs, also". Almost like she caught herself, but no doubt her first thought/priority is more govt jobs. This is what is wrong with this country. You can't grow govt jobs without growth in the private sector to support it. And these idiot bureaucrats seem to think if they create more govt jobs that will somehow stimulate the economy, when in reality it sucks growth out of it.

BoatShoes;1374388 wrote:Why do you suppose that most, if not all, people employed by the military receive general praise whereas a lot of other public employees do not?

For instance, an average Boatswain's Mate provides little in the way of value to the American people as a whole most of the time. One of his typical duties at sea is painting the hull of a ship. He is one small piece in the machine that is the U.S. Navy (which admittedly preserves trade and commerce around the world).

The average reserve Boatswain's Mate provides even less value to the American people. One weekend a month he sits on his ass at a reserve center reading about what his duties are in the event he gets activated.

When these men walk into a gas station in their uniform, they can be met by a lot of folks who thank them for their service.

However, if these same folks were to meet an IRS agent, who collects revenue that the treasury then transfers to those Boatswain's mates as compensation for their service, it seems unlikely that the IRS agent would be showered with praise for their service.

The same goes for many other public employees. They are called "bureaucrats" as if it were a pejorative. Why do you suppose this is the case?

Because an IRS agent is nothing but an accountant, who has been hired by the Gov./paid by taxpayer funds/ to collect a portion of taxpayer's earnings. Nothing more. Bloodsuckers of the worst order.

Footwedge;1374971 wrote:He went to fight wars
For his country and his king
Of his honor and his glory
The people would sing

Ooooh, what a lucky man he was
Ooooh, what a lucky man he was

A bullet had found him
His blood ran as he cried
No money could save him
So he laid down and he died

Ooooh, what a lucky man he was
Ooooh, what a lucky man he was

From the "Footwedge" generation that gave us:

The War on Poverty
The war on Drugs
The war in Vietnam
The "Me" generation
The "Hover" parents
The "Everyone is a winner" thought.

etc.
etc.
etc.

So let me get this straight. I go out on a submarine, and maintain a nuclear weapons system (the same one that prevents other countries from using nukes on us), and since I'm not fighting in the desert, I'm just collecting a check? Thanks OP for opening my eyes to the truth.

brutus161;1375447 wrote:So let me get this straight. I go out on a submarine, and maintain a nuclear weapons system (the same one that prevents other countries from using nukes on us), and since I'm not fighting in the desert, I'm just collecting a check? Thanks OP for opening my eyes to the truth.

See, this is unfortunate because you can't start topics that generate a discussion without people's feelings getting hurt.

I in no way suggested that you were "just collecting a check." :rolleyes:

The essence of the discussion is why the IRS agent who collects the revenue with which you are paid for your important work is considered a "bloodsucking accountant".

Pelosi also said, or perhaps it was Howard Dean, that the reason for the alleged rampant entitlement fraud is they don't have enough staff to properly administer it.

So naturally their solution is MORE staff...as opposed to cut funding to cover people who really need/deserve it and could then be more efficient with a smaller staff.

The attraction for entitlements to liberals is the double-whammy effect to create TWO people dependent on the govt - the beneficiary and the person to administer it. Mind you no value is created and it just further stresses the private sector to support it.