Ohio Chatter
Ohio Chatter

Forums

All Threads Serious Business Sports Politics Archive Pick 'ems Wordio
Log In Create Account

Cincinnati Reds Off-Season Thread

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ Cincinnati Reds Off-Season Thread
Classyposter58's avatar

Classyposter58

Senior Member

6,321 posts
Mar 12, 2013 1:20 AM
If he develops some great off speed stuff he could become the next Bob Feller. The thing about Bob was not only was his fastball insane, but his curveball was nasty as well
Mar 11, 2013 9:20pm
M

mhs95_06

Senior Member

8,167 posts
Mar 16, 2013 9:36 PM
Today Chapman took the lead in the battle to be the 5th starter with Leake giving up 10 hits, 7 runs(6 earned), in 3.1 innings. Chapman gives up one earned run in 4 innings on 2 hits. But he walked 3 of the 15 he faced and the run scored on a WP.
Mar 16, 2013 5:36pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

In ROY I Trust!!

27,794 posts
Mar 16, 2013 10:55 PM
Aroldis said he wants to be the closer.
Mar 16, 2013 6:55pm
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

TuTu Train

22,284 posts
Mar 16, 2013 11:27 PM
hmmm I remember someone telling me it was a done deal and he was in the rotation?
Mar 16, 2013 7:27pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Mar 17, 2013 1:59 AM
Im glad if he wants to be the closer that he finally spoke up. Now go sign lohse
Mar 16, 2013 9:59pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Mar 17, 2013 2:09 AM
karen lotz;1406995 wrote:hmmm I remember someone telling me it was a done deal and he was in the rotation?
I mean, the Reds have told him he's starting. He's been projected to be in the rotation all spring. He may not want to be there, but that has been their plan for him since 2009...I can't see them changing unless the bullpen is just that bad or he's just that bad as a starter...
Mar 16, 2013 10:09pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Mar 17, 2013 2:17 AM
Azubuike24;1407081 wrote:I mean, the Reds have told him he's starting. He's been projected to be in the rotation all spring. He may not want to be there, but that has been their plan for him since 2009...I can't see them changing unless the bullpen is just that bad or he's just that bad as a starter...

If he doesn't want to start. Dont start him. Means he's obviously not comfortable or confident.
Mar 16, 2013 10:17pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Mar 17, 2013 2:54 AM
I mean, I agree with you. But I can't imagine they didn't know this before. The Reds censor basically everything Chapman says...

Signing Lohse, interesting. It would make sense given that I think we're all pretty sure Leake can't be a reliable starter at The GABP. If he could, I doubt Chapman would've ever been forced into starting.
Mar 16, 2013 10:54pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Mar 17, 2013 3:15 AM
Azubuike24;1407111 wrote:I mean, I agree with you. But I can't imagine they didn't know this before. The Reds censor basically everything Chapman says...

Signing Lohse, interesting. It would make sense given that I think we're all pretty sure Leake can't be a reliable starter at The GABP. If he could, I doubt Chapman would've ever been forced into starting.

According to baker today, its the first time chapman has made a statement on doing either job.
Mar 16, 2013 11:15pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Mar 17, 2013 5:41 AM
I would love for Chapman to be a dominant starter, but I really doubt his ability to go out and throw 100+ pitches every fifth day.
Mar 17, 2013 1:41am
IggyPride00's avatar

IggyPride00

Senior Member

6,482 posts
Mar 17, 2013 5:28 PM
ESPN had a blurb up recently about this situation with a scout saying the Reds are going to turn Chapman into Joba Chamberlin if they keep trying to make him into a starter.

Joba was an unhittable reliever when he came up with gas and electric stuff and then it just never translated into being a starter. Then the arm troubles came and before you knew it he was done.

They may have signed Chapman to be a starter long term, but he has shown the ability to be a lights out closer, and sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone. Sure a dominant starter is more valuable, but there is nothing wrong with leaving a guy in a role he has proven he can be dominant in.
Mar 17, 2013 1:28pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Mar 17, 2013 5:57 PM
IggyPride00;1407334 wrote:ESPN had a blurb up recently about this situation with a scout saying the Reds are going to turn Chapman into Joba Chamberlin if they keep trying to make him into a starter.

Joba was an unhittable reliever when he came up with gas and electric stuff and then it just never translated into being a starter. Then the arm troubles came and before you knew it he was done.

They may have signed Chapman to be a starter long term, but he has shown the ability to be a lights out closer, and sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone. Sure a dominant starter is more valuable, but there is nothing wrong with leaving a guy in a role he has proven he can be dominant in.

Don't forget about Neftali Feliz.

I'm scared of Chapman becoming a starter for this reason, and then because I haven't seen him throw three pitches with confidence. He can get away with fastball, slider as a closer, but you can't as a starter. I know he's been working on it all spring training, but doing it during an afternoon spring training game against a team comprised of minor leaguers is completely different than doing it in the bottom of the 6th against the Cardinals.
Mar 17, 2013 1:57pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Mar 17, 2013 6:03 PM
You can get away with those 2 pitches, as both are at the top-end in-terms of quality. The real issue with Chapman, is being able to control them and when to use them. Even as a starter throwing 100 pitches a night, he's got the stuff to dominate.
Mar 17, 2013 2:03pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

Administrator

49,363 posts
Mar 17, 2013 6:10 PM
Don't forget David Price either.
Mar 17, 2013 2:10pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Mar 17, 2013 6:15 PM
Azubuike24;1407355 wrote:You can get away with those 2 pitches, as both are at the top-end in-terms of quality. The real issue with Chapman, is being able to control them and when to use them. Even as a starter throwing 100 pitches a night, he's got the stuff to dominate.

Disagreed. You need 3 pitches and one needs to be a change/splitter. It doesn't matter how hard you throw, if big league guys see it long enough they can time it
Mar 17, 2013 2:15pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Mar 17, 2013 7:33 PM
He's got 4 pitches.

He can throw 102-103.

He can throw a slider with insane movement at 91-93.

Nobody else in baseball can do that. If he learns to adjust speed on those pitches and locate them, he might as well have 4 pitches. For instance, take something more off the slider and throw it at 86-87, why have a change-up?
Mar 17, 2013 3:33pm
Rotinaj's avatar

Rotinaj

Senior Member

7,699 posts
Mar 17, 2013 7:35 PM
Im fine with it if he doesn't want to become a starter. Don't need 5 starters for a playoff rotation anyway. A dominant closer sounds good to me.
Mar 17, 2013 3:35pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Mar 17, 2013 7:41 PM
One thing to consider.

The Reds were extremely fortunate last year to have zero injuries to a starting pitcher. Their main 5 (Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake) started 161 games combined. The irony being, Cueto goes down in the first inning of the NLDS and ruins their chances...

Also, Mike Leake is pretty bad. Bronson Arroyo, while he had a good year, has a precedent of being really bad.

Can the Reds get to the pen soon enough with that rotation? Can they win enough games to make the playoffs? I think they can, but like mentioned earlier, I'd feel more confident if they had another legit starter.
Mar 17, 2013 3:41pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Mar 17, 2013 7:51 PM
Azubuike24;1407442 wrote:He's got 4 pitches.

He can throw 102-103.

He can throw a slider with insane movement at 91-93.

Nobody else in baseball can do that. If he learns to adjust speed on those pitches and locate them, he might as well have 4 pitches. For instance, take something more off the slider and throw it at 86-87, why have a change-up?

I have 4 pitches. Lol. Nobody is disputing that he has those pitches. I just know that last year when the chips were down he didn't trust anything but his fastball and slider
Mar 17, 2013 3:51pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Mar 17, 2013 7:53 PM
Azubuike24;1407448 wrote:One thing to consider.

The Reds were extremely fortunate last year to have zero injuries to a starting pitcher. Their main 5 (Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake) started 161 games combined. The irony being, Cueto goes down in the first inning of the NLDS and ruins their chances...

Also, Mike Leake is pretty bad. Bronson Arroyo, while he had a good year, has a precedent of being really bad.

Can the Reds get to the pen soon enough with that rotation? Can they win enough games to make the playoffs? I think they can, but like mentioned earlier, I'd feel more confident if they had another legit starter.

And cant expect them all to have the same numbers either. We need to have joey and choo give the offense a big bump.
Mar 17, 2013 3:53pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Mar 17, 2013 7:58 PM
jordo212000;1407454 wrote:I have 4 pitches. Lol. Nobody is disputing that he has those pitches. I just know that last year when the chips were down he didn't trust anything but his fastball and slider
That's the point.

He needs to learn how and when to use them. Having the ability and speed variance is something he has that very few other pitchers have.

Again, the question is does he know how to "pitch." If he doesn't know how to pitch, then you can have 6 pitches and still get rocked.

I guess the real question is...do the Reds think he is good enough at "pitching" and if not, make him the closer and be done with it. They clearly think he's capable of becoming good enough though...
Mar 17, 2013 3:58pm
IggyPride00's avatar

IggyPride00

Senior Member

6,482 posts
Mar 17, 2013 8:10 PM
This is his 4th season now.

I think if they were going to try and do the starter thing with him it is almost too far down the road because he is now multiple years removed from being a starter. He is bound to have arm trouble at some point, because most of those guys who try and become a starter years down the road invariably blow their arms out.

With the David Price example if I remember correctly he was relieving for only about 2 months on the playoff stretch (kind of how Joba got his start) and then he was put back into the rotation the next year as he had been in the minors the year before.

If the Reds wanted to make Chapman a starter, the time to do it was after that first season.

Trying to get his arm adjusted to throwing 100-125 pitches every 5th day being 3-4 years removed from that seems like it is asking for trouble with his arm based on what we have seen around the majors with other guys in similar positions.

The back and forth is not good for his arm or his confidence, and they need to just sit him down and figure out what he wants and go with that. If he wants to be a closer, go with it instead of trying to force him into being something his hearts not into. Nothing good will come of it.
Mar 17, 2013 4:10pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Mar 17, 2013 8:43 PM
IggyPride00;1407471 wrote:This is his 4th season now.

I think if they were going to try and do the starter thing with him it is almost too far down the road because he is now multiple years removed from being a starter. He is bound to have arm trouble at some point, because most of those guys who try and become a starter years down the road invariably blow their arms out.

With the David Price example if I remember correctly he was relieving for only about 2 months on the playoff stretch (kind of how Joba got his start) and then he was put back into the rotation the next year as he had been in the minors the year before.

If the Reds wanted to make Chapman a starter, the time to do it was after that first season.

Trying to get his arm adjusted to throwing 100-125 pitches every 5th day being 3-4 years removed from that seems like it is asking for trouble with his arm based on what we have seen around the majors with other guys in similar positions.

The back and forth is not good for his arm or his confidence, and they need to just sit him down and figure out what he wants and go with that. If he wants to be a closer, go with it instead of trying to force him into being something his hearts not into. Nothing good will come of it.

Agree
Mar 17, 2013 4:43pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Mar 19, 2013 2:07 PM
I think Chapman can be a dominant starter a la Verlander, Randy Johnson in his prime and other great pitchers. I would like to see him in the rotation. I will always prefer a stud starter over a stud closer any day of the week.

Last year the reds lost 3 games when they were leading after the 8th inning. 3 games. The average in MLB last year? 3.7.

BUT....the answer to the question of "Where should Chapman be placed" is like an answer to an essay question.

If you answer as the closer you get a 98%.
If you answer starter you could get a 98%. Or 110% (extra credit), or you could also get 70-90% or even an F if he bombs totally.

The SAFE answer/solution is him as a closer. Baseball is all about percentages and I think the ultimate decision that will come down from the top is to keep him in a spot that they KNOW he should succeed in.
Mar 19, 2013 10:07am
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

Administrator

49,363 posts
Mar 20, 2013 1:13 AM
Mar 19, 2013 9:13pm