Obama sucked last night, and from the start. He seemed nervous, almost stuttering. And for as much as his spin doctors will tell you Romney lied or took different positions, it was Obama and his teams job to be prepared for that. He laid a turd. He's got 2 more chances, but if the others are like the first, Romney may very well be pulling off the upset.

Manhattan Buckeye;1286932 wrote:Dodge what question? Was there a question involved? I was explaining how government can condition business's reluctance to hire, and even provided an example (albeit not a federal law, and quite possibly a law that might not ever be effective). Did you have a question? I don't read minds and I don't understand arguments that are put in my mouth.

Yes

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote:How

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: can

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: Mittens

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: guarantee

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: he's

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: going

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: to

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote:create

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote:enough

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: jobs

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: to

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: offset

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: these

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote:tax

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote: cuts

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286926 wrote:?

Belly35;1286933 wrote:z4p you do know that you can write a check to the government directly to pay more if you really feel that what you should do. You have a double income so write the check and give more. Obama has asking you to do that bro. Skip the Mustang payment an send in that check to the government come on Obama asking. However you may rethink before writing that check and look at the pay stub Obama care has just made your health insurance go up $100.00. That’s OK with you right because your money going to pay for someone else addiction, obesity, third kid with no father, criminals, rent, food, utilities and housing and cell phone and a never ending entitlement failure programs.

I will keep what I have earned because I worked for it and get lawn service (job creation), pool service (job creation), eat out (job creation) and get a new set of golf clubs (job creation) better me stimulating the economy than the government wasting it on someone who doesn't want a job.


Do eayou understand that the average cost of federal entitlement to individual is $28,000 per year. Your first job out of college was not that much and the system wants more of what you rn .. and will continue wanting more

I'm sorry I'm going to stop at the donut shop (job creation) and get my standard coffee and two chocolate, chocolate..

Triple income actually. 1099 for a former employer. And I'll gladly pay what's asked of me b/c unlike Republicans, I know the luxuries this country provides Actually costs money. And it Actually has to be paid for. And you can't Actually pay for it by cutting taxes. And I'm Actually going to bed not hungry and with money in my accounts. And there's millions in this country who are Actually not afforded the same situation. And you and many like you feel they Actually shouldn't be, that you're somehow inherently better than them. And the reason this country is the best in the world is b/c we Actually help the have nots in this country and make their lives at least tolerable. And that Actually creates a better and safer standard of living for all of us.

The same way that Obama guaranteed in 2008 that he was going to close Gitmo and end the war in Afghanistan, he can't. But he can tell how he is going to try.

superman;1286946 wrote:The same way that Obama guaranteed in 2008 that he was going to close Gitmo and end the war in Afghanistan, he can't. But he can tell how he is going to try.

Ok so when he fails to create these jobs, what happens to the deficit that you cut 500 billion a year in taxes from?

500 Billion a year? Then I guess it would go up at 1/3 the rate it has under Obama.

Ty Webb;1286865 wrote:If you people are to clueless to understand what we heard tonight...what's the sense of even debating with you?

LOL, Obama got waxed get over it.

superman;1286953 wrote:500 Billion a year? Then I guess it would go up at 1/3 the rate it has under Obama.

Yeah, sure, if he doesn't spend on anything else. Which he will.. So it will more than likely go up 1/3 more than it has under Obama.

For those of you demanding specifics from Romney, let's revisit the Obama specifics from this time exactly 4 years ago:
1. Hope and Change.
2. Change you can believe in.
3. We are the ones we've been waiting for.
4. Fundamental change will arrive.
5. Fired up....ready to go.

He did not lay out any of his ObamaKare plans, his vision of regulatory reform, his need for avowed communists in his czar-pool, his disdain for Israel, etc. We didn't get specifics the last election, so why are they so important this time?

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286941 wrote:Triple income actually. 1099 for a former employer. And I'll gladly pay what's asked of me b/c unlike Republicans, I know the luxuries this country provides Actually costs money. And it Actually has to be paid for. And you can't Actually pay for it by cutting taxes. And I'm Actually going to bed not hungry and with money in my accounts. And there's millions in this country who are Actually not afforded the same situation. And you and many like you feel they Actually shouldn't be, that you're somehow inherently better than them. And the reason this country is the best in the world is b/c we Actually help the have nots in this country and make their lives at least tolerable. And that Actually creates a better and safer standard of living for all of us.

Mallet Project, food stamp ... poor single parent … that was my inherented .... know poverty been there done that

So what your back ground on being poor, hungry, housing project and living condition?

You want their life to be tolerable that slavery


Poverty does need continues handouts and generation entitlement that hasn’t worked so far has it?
What is needed is the individual to take responsibility for their education, children future, family structure and goals. Throw money at it makes you feel good but is that what is needed. How about raising the standard of education, finding father of those children, support the family unit and present goal with incentive to achieve.. give, give, give with no guideline of return on investment .. poor idea


If poverty only goal is to recieve what incentive is that?

Belly35;1286965 wrote:Mallet Project, food stamp ... poor single parent … that was my inherented .... know poverty been there done that

So what your back ground on being poor, hungry, housing project and living condition?

You want their life to be tolerable that slavery


Poverty does need continues handouts and generation entitlement that hasn’t worked so far has it?
What is needed is the individual to take responsibility for their education, children future, family structure and goals. Throw money at it makes you feel good but is that what is needed. How about raising the standard of education, finding father of those children, support the family unit and present goal with incentive to achieve.. give, give, give with no guideline of return on investment .. poor idea


If poverty only goal is to recieve what incentive is that?

I'll wait for the English translation.

Belly35;1286965 wrote:Mallet Project, food stamp ... poor single parent … that was my inherented .... know poverty been there done that

So what your back ground on being poor, hungry, housing project and living condition?

You want their life to be tolerable that slavery


Poverty does need continues handouts and generation entitlement that hasn’t worked so far has it?
What is needed is the individual to take responsibility for their education, children future, family structure and goals. Throw money at it makes you feel good but is that what is needed. How about raising the standard of education, finding father of those children, support the family unit and present goal with incentive to achieve.. give, give, give with no guideline of return on investment .. poor idea


If poverty only goal is to recieve what incentive is that?

Belly, wtf? Please edit this.

Ty Webb;1286858 wrote:Did you even watch the debate??

Yes, and had it been a boxing match the referee would have stepped in and stopped the fight in the 3rd round. It was THAT lopsided.

Romney revealed obama for what he is really is: an empty suit amateur. When there is no left-stream media shield to protect the guy, you can easily see right through him.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286967 wrote:I'll wait for the English translation.

Food stamps and having a poor single parent. That was my inheritance. I know poverty because I've been there and done that.

What is your back ground on being poor, hungry, and living in a housing project?

You want their life to be tolerable and that amounts to slavery .

Poverty doesn't need continuous handouts and generation entitlement. That hasn’t worked so far has it?
What is needed is the individual to take responsibility for their education, their children's future, family structure and goals. Throwing money at it makes you feel good but is that what is needed. How about raising the standard of education, finding the fathers of those children, supporting the family unit and presenting them with an incentive to achieve. Just giving them money without having a potential return on that investment is a poor idea.

If the poor's only goal is to receive, what incentive is there for them to improve themselves?

FatHobbit;1286970 wrote:Food stamps and having a poor single parent. That was my inheritance. I know poverty because I've been there and done that.

What is your back ground on being poor, hungry, and living in a housing project?

You want their life to be tolerable and that amounts to slavery .

Poverty doesn't need continuous handouts and generation entitlement. That hasn’t worked so far has it?
What is needed is the individual to take responsibility for their education, their children's future, family structure and goals. Throwing money at it makes you feel good but is that what is needed. How about raising the standard of education, finding the fathers of those children, supporting the family unit and presenting them with an incentive to achieve. Just giving them money without having a potential return on that investment is a poor idea.

If the poor's only goal is to receive, what incentive is there for them to improve themselves?

Ah... thank you.

Belly I grew up in Massillon. Generally that's all you need to say but I'll expand. My dad was a welder and my mom raised us. Needless to say we didn't have money for anything other than the basics. As little money as we had, I had friends who were MUCH worse off. Maybe their mom was only a waitress and dad wasn't around. Maybe dad died of cancer when they were 3 and mom had to suddenly find a job to support the family. Either way I felt I was better off than them even if it were only by so much. I was lucky enough to have a supportive family, even if it wasn't supportive with money. All my sisters did well. I did well. But most of my friends did not. Still aren't. Have you ever heard success breeds success? Well failure breeds failure as well. You're a product of your environment and tend to set your standards as high as what you're accustomed too. You're an exception to the rule Belly, not the rule. I'd wager most of those you grew up with didn't fair as well as you did. And you want to make their plight even worse by cutting them off? You're taking an already almost non-existant chance they have to change their fortunes and completely doing away with it when you cut the subsidies.
You made it out of poverty with the help of the government.. you even admit that. Don't try to pretend that didn't help when you were a kid. Why should you be afforded the benefits and others shouldn't now that you made it out of poverty?

Ty Webb;1286846 wrote:Did you even listen to Romney tonight??

Show me one soild,concrete plan he has for accomplishing anything he said he might do


Multiple times President Obama said something he wanted to or has accomplished and then said how he did it or how he will do it

Specifics? I don't remember you or the media pressing obama for specifics in the debates 4 years ago, do you? I mean, had you and the media pressed him maybe he would have told us, specifically what he would do. He would have had to say:

I am going to add $6 trillion (with a T) to the national debt.
I am going to have annual, minimum, deficits of $1.3 trillion (with a T)
I am going to increase the food stamp roles to a record 47 million people
I am going to preside over 44 consecutive months of unemployment over 8%
I am going to allow 23 million Americans to go without a job, for years
I am going to attack the fossil fuel industry, endangering our energy security
I am going to nationalize half of the auto industry
I am going to attack the coal industry putting thousands out of work (I guess he did tell us that)
I am going to attack the values of the Catholic Church and FORCE them to go against their belief system
I am going to raid Medicare to help pay for a obamaKare
I am going to FORCE obamaKare down the throats of Americans which will ultimately ruin health CARE
I am going to turn loose 16,000 new IRS agents on those who wish not to comply with obamaKare
I am going to appoint the most radical socialists/Marxists/communists to high level positions within my BIG government
I am going to do things MY way and will not work with or compromise with those on the other side of the aisle
I am going to go around YOUR elected representatives and implement MY policies via executive order



shall we continue on with domestice issues, or move to foreign policy?




How's that for specifics? Where were you and the media asking for, and reporting on, THESE specifics?




Change we can believe in .....

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286922 wrote:Sure.. like people buying stuff from them. Cutting their taxes has never proved an incentive for them to hire.

Not remotely true.

queencitybuckeye;1286979 wrote:Not remotely true.

Really, b/c even independent studies show tax cuts don't correlate to job growth.

You're a businessman QCB. If someone cuts your taxes are you going to say "wow that was great, I better hire someone now" or are you going to say "wow that was great.. but consumer confidence really isn't that high and I can't justify hiring any more people based on these orders currently. Maybe when things pick up"

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286981 wrote:Really, b/c even independent studies show tax cuts don't correlate to job growth.

You're a businessman QCB. If someone cuts your taxes are you going to say "wow that was great, I better hire someone now" or are you going to say "wow that was great.. but consumer confidence really isn't that high and I can't justify hiring any more people based on these orders currently. Maybe when things pick up"

If you're saying I'm not going to hire someone if I have no work for them to do, that of course is true. If you're suggesting that how much money is left in my pocket after the government steals their chunk doesn't affect when I hire that person after things pick up, you're arguing against logic. Of course it will.

queencitybuckeye;1286986 wrote:If you're saying I'm not going to hire someone if I have no work for them to do, that of course is true. If you're suggesting that how much money is left in my pocket after the government steals their chunk doesn't affect when I hire that person after things pick up, you're arguing against logic. Of course it will.

But surely you won't turn down orders b/c you can't fill them b/c you don't want to hire someone new?

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286988 wrote:But surely you won't turn down orders b/c you can't fill them b/c you don't want to hire someone new?

I wouldn't want to, but printing money is still illegal. There are businesses forced to do exactly what you asked about, but if they had a bit more money left...

I don't think we're that far apart. If Mr. Romney is portraying tax cuts as a "magic bullet", he's exaggerating. To claim that they would have no effect on employment defies basic economic theory (IOW it's nonsense).

Overnight/morning flash polls of swing/undecided voters looking pretty damn good for Mittens.

Most telling, the CBS poll where the number on the "do you think Romney cares/understands your problems" went from 30% to 62%.

queencitybuckeye;1286989 wrote:I wouldn't want to, but printing money is still illegal. There are businesses forced to do exactly what you asked about, but if they had a bit more money left...

But collecting monies for said purchases are still legal.
QCB.. if you are in no position to hire someone to incur additional revenue, I'd posit that's not the governments fault, perhaps you need to look at your own business model.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1286992 wrote:But collecting monies for said purchases are still legal.
QCB.. if you are in no position to hire someone to incur additional revenue, I'd posit that's not the governments fault, perhaps you need to look at your own business model.

Absolutely. What I could do is outsource much of my work to India for a fraction of my current labor costs, and hire plenty of people to handle the additional work. And then in your mind, I'd be the evil capitalist for doing exactly what the current government policies make sense for me to do.

Ty Webb;1286863 wrote:I heard plenty of specifics from one of them and it wasn't Romney

If Big Willie is so specific on his plans....why has he still no revealed ANY specific ideas yet in ANY of his stump speeches

Okay name 1 specific.