I agree with Ibaka being at least top 2.


Im not sure why the love affair for LBJ and his defense. I get he CAN guard positions 1-4 but he doesnt do it, and often is on one of the worst offensive threats on the court. No way in hell he deserves to keep getting first team all D and votes for DPOY

Hb31187;1432855 wrote:I agree with Ibaka being at least top 2.


Im not sure why the love affair for LBJ and his defense. I get he CAN guard positions 1-4 but he doesnt do it, and often is on one of the worst offensive threats on the court. No way in hell he deserves to keep getting first team all D and votes for DPOY

He can actually guard positions 1-5.

Pick6;1432894 wrote:He can actually guard positions 1-5.

Dont see him guarding Centers working out very well. Hell you can put Chalmers on a Center, doesnt mean hed defend effectively

Hb31187;1432899 wrote:Dont see him guarding Centers working out very well. Hell you can put Chalmers on a Center, doesnt mean hed defend effectively

He did a fine job on Perkins in the Finals if I remember correctly. Obviously Perkins isnt much of an offensive threat, though.

Pick6;1432902 wrote:He did a fine job on Perkins in the Finals if I remember correctly. Obviously Perkins isnt much of an offensive threat, though.

Yeah you dont really have to play defense on a player like Perkins. Against Centers who are actually offensively competent, I really dont think he could hang with them. Just my opinion

Hb31187;1432905 wrote:Yeah you dont really have to play defense on a player like Perkins. Against Centers who are actually offensively competent, I really dont think he could hang with them. Just my opinion

He couldn't. Him on some 4s is a stretch as a well.

Commander of Awesome;1432907 wrote:He couldn't. Him on some 4s is a stretch as a well.

As well as some of the elite PGs.

wildcats20;1432909 wrote:As well as some of the elite PGs.

Wasn't a stretch when he completely shut down Rose when it mattered.

lhslep134;1432920 wrote:Wasn't a stretch when he completely shut down Rose when it mattered.

He said elite PG

lol he guarded rose at the very end of games after playing a non offensive threat the whole game snd DRose having to carry his team. congrats. Lawson would eat him up, Westbrook, Paul, ect. He's quick....for a Sf

Hb31187;1432934 wrote:. Lawson would eat him up, Westbrook, Paul

I would expect a quick PG to eat up a SF. However, you're completely disregarding Lebron's ability to guard them for stretches, and that versatility makes him unlike any other defender besides Tony Allen.

Lebron finished 11th in the least flawed defensive metric, defensive win shares.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_advanced.html

While I don't think he should be getting 2nd in DPOY voting, I think you're underrating his defense.

Pick6;1432902 wrote:He did a fine job on Perkins in the Finals if I remember correctly.

Perkins? lol what a terrible example. Everyone does a fine job covering Perkins. Because he sucks.

Hb31187;1432934 wrote:lol he guarded rose at the very end of games after playing a non offensive threat the whole game snd DRose having to carry his team. congrats. Lawson would eat him up, Westbrook, Paul, ect. He's quick....for a Sf

All star Luol Deng is a non offensive threat?

lhslep134;1432939 wrote:I would expect a quick PG to eat up a SF. However, you're completely disregarding Lebron's ability to guard them for stretches, and that versatility makes him unlike any other defender besides Tony Allen.

Lebron finished 11th in the least flawed defensive metric, defensive win shares.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_advanced.html

While I don't think he should be getting 2nd in DPOY voting, I think you're underrating his defense.

I dont think I'm really selling him short. he's a good on ball.defender, real good off ball. As for guarding point guards or centers for long periods of time....I'm really not seeing that happening. he can effectively guard 2/3/4 and being able to guard 3 positions is impressive but there's multiple players in the league that can guard 3 positions. I think many just assume because of how athletic he is and such a great player that it translates to being a loxkdown defender.

not gonna lie, never head of that stat you posted, what does it all take into account?

robj55;1432950 wrote:All star Luol Deng is a non offensive threat?

Forgot about Deng, I retract that statement. but more times.than not he's on someone he can help off of. The 2 other top Sf's in the game. Melo and Durant I know he guards sparingly when they play. he's a GOOD defender but people make him out to ne pippen/Bowen/artest in his prime

Hb31187;1432958 wrote:Forgot about Deng, I retract that statement. but more times.than not he's on someone he can help off of. The 2 other top Sf's in the game. Melo and Durant I know he guards sparingly when they play. he's a GOOD defender but people make hol.out to ne pippen/Bowen/artest in his prime

I would say his versatility alone makes him an upper echelon defender in the league. I know he does the best against Melo and Durant when he guards them but from a coaching perspective you are a moron if you would keep the best player in the league and most important player on each of them for an entire game or an extended stretch and risk getting him in foul trouble. This goes for any superstar not just LBJ. I will say, that if Lebron focused on defense alone, he would be the best defender in the game, that will never happen though because it would take too much away from his offensive game.

lol LeBron doesn't get in foul trouble they flat out dont call him fot fouls. He sets récords in amount of time played vs how many fouls are called against him, he has nothing to worry about in terms of foul trouble. He's a GOOd defender yes, 2nd in the league or consistently on all defensive teams tho is where I disagree.

Hb31187;1432971 wrote:lol LeBron doesn't get in foul trouble they flat out dont call him fot fouls. He sets récords in amount of time played vs how many fouls are called against him, he has nothing to worry about in terms of foul trouble. He's a GOOd defender yes, 2nd in the league or consistently on all defensive teams tho is where I disagree.

What does any of this have to do with what I said?

robj55;1432977 wrote:What does any of this have to do with what I said?

You said a coach would be a moron to risk getting him in foul trouble, I said he flat out doesn't get fouls called on him and is never in foul trouble. I'd say its pretty easy to connect the dots in reference to your comment

lhslep134;1432939 wrote:I would expect a quick PG to eat up a SF. However, you're completely disregarding Lebron's ability to guard them for stretches, and that versatility makes him unlike any other defender besides Tony Allen.

Lebron finished 11th in the least flawed defensive metric, defensive win shares.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_advanced.html

While I don't think he should be getting 2nd in DPOY voting, I think you're underrating his defense.

Actually 8th in win shares I think. Four were tied.

Hb31187;1432979 wrote:You said a coach would be a moron to risk getting him in foul trouble, I said he flat out doesn't get fouls called on him and is never in foul trouble. I'd say its pretty easy to connect the dots in reference to your comment

You don't put your superstar in that position either way. We have all had that discussion about it being a star's league and stars not being called for fouls, but that shouldn't and doesn't affect match ups and strategy. Not sure any coach can go into any game saying, "Well we had better put our star on their star because we know for a fact we won't get in foul trouble." Sounds like a recipe to get fired.

robj55;1432990 wrote:You don't put your superstar in that position either way. We have all had that discussion about it being a star's league and stars not being called for fouls, but that shouldn't and doesn't affect match ups and strategy. Not sure any coach can go into any game saying, "Well we had better put our star on their star because we know for a fact we won't get in foul trouble." Sounds like a recipe to get fired.

Even amongst stars, how little is called on LBJ in terms of fouls is absurd. And no you shouldn't go In with that mind state, but if you have apparently one of the best defenders in the league, why would you waste him on a non offensive threat? its not like there's nobody else capable on offense and he has to carry the team fully like in Cleveland

so he's the best in the league at wing defense based on a tiny sample size of him actually guarding the opposing teams star. There's a reason they don't take into account small sample sizes when dealing with statistics, its because small sample sizes can lead to extremely misleading results. He's a GOOd defender, but until he actually guards scoring threats on a regular basis ill continue to see him as average on. all and a GOOd helpside defender which is what he's doing more times than not.Just my opinion

Mulva;1432946 wrote:Perkins? lol what a terrible example. Everyone does a fine job covering Perkins. Because he sucks.

Haha. Way to take out the last part of my post where I clearly stated Perkins sucks on offense. You really got me there.

Hb31187;1432995 wrote:Even amongst stars, how little is called on LBJ in terms of fouls is absurd. And no you shouldn't go In with that mind state, but if you have apparently one of the best defenders in the league, why would you waste him on a non offensive threat? its not like there's nobody else capable on offense and he has to carry the team fully like in Cleveland

so he's the best in the league at wing defense based on a tiny sample size of him actually guarding the opposing teams star. There's a reason they don't take into account small sample sizes when dealing with statistics, its because small sample sizes can lead to extremely misleading results. He's a GOOd defender, but until he actually guards scoring threats on a regular basis ill continue to see him as average on. all and a GOOd helpside defender which is what he's doing more times than not.Just my opinion

What are some examples of guarding a non offensive threat? Does such a thing even exist in the NBA? The example you provided, he guarded Luol Deng, an all star, and then switched off in crunch time and shut down MVP point guard Derrick Rose. He guarded Durant very well in the finals, and switched off on Westbrook as well as keeping Ibaka off the boards, what more can you ask of someone? You want him to guard Durant for 40 minutes? No one in the league can do that without being in constant foul trouble, just like Durant had no chance guarding Lebron. Also, if you're a coach, you want to give elite offensive players different looks so you keep them off balance and uncomfortable. That's why you will see a Shane Battier guard Melo or Durant, to try and prevent them from getting a read on a defender and finding a rhythm. I respect your opinion but you have to take all things into consideration. If Lebron were an average offensive talent and player, not so important to his team, then I would agree with you.

robj55;1433003 wrote:What are some examples of guarding a non offensive threat? Does such a thing even exist in the NBA? The example you provided, he guarded Luol Deng, an all star, and then switched off in crunch time and shut down MVP point guard Derrick Rose. He guarded Durant very well in the finals, and switched off on Westbrook as well as keeping Ibaka off the boards, what more can you ask of someone? You want him to guard Durant for 40 minutes? No one in the league can do that without being in constant foul trouble, just like Durant had no chance guarding Lebron. Also, if you're a coach, you want to give elite offensive players different looks so you keep them off balance and uncomfortable. That's why you will see a Shane Battier guard Melo or Durant, to try and prevent them from getting a read on a defender and finding a rhythm. I respect your opinion but you have to take all things into consideration. If Lebron were an average offensive talent and player, not so important to his team, then I would agree with you.

yes non offensive threats exist in the NBA lol. Perkins,ibaka, Joel Anthony, Reggie Evans ect ect. just because you're in the NBA doesn't mean you can score.

and in the finals he spent thevast majority of the time guarding ibaka or Perkins not Westbrook and.Durant. its not like he was constantly on one of them during the series or even the majority of the time. I didn't say for 40 minutes but I would be he averaged less than a quarter per game on KD. I don't have the game tape to go check however obviously.

Lebron is obviously a extremely gifted offensive player like I said Its not like he doesnt have another top 10/15 player Who can create offense himself if need be. And a all star forward as well. they'd survive, But agree theyre at their best with LeBron running the offense.