NBA 2012-13

Home Archive Pro Sports NBA 2012-13
G

gport_tennis

Senior Member

1,796 posts
Feb 21, 2013 10:30 AM
Rotinaj;1393527 wrote:Production is all that matters.

Kwame brown is going to be a beast.
Feb 21, 2013 10:30am
GOONx19's avatar

GOONx19

An exceptional poster.

7,147 posts
Feb 21, 2013 10:35 AM
^ Kwame Brown never had production anywhere near Dion's current line. He averaged 5 points and 4 rebounds as a rookie. Your post makes no sense.
Feb 21, 2013 10:35am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 21, 2013 10:48 AM
lhslep134;1393522 wrote:Only in production, not long term.
Not even sure what this means. That's like saying "Well only in actual game play, not potential game play". :rolleyes:
Feb 21, 2013 10:48am
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
Feb 21, 2013 10:52 AM
When Dion was coming off the bench, he was puttting up better numbers in nearly every statistical category than any other 6th men out there.
Feb 21, 2013 10:52am
G

gport_tennis

Senior Member

1,796 posts
Feb 21, 2013 11:01 AM
GOONx19;1393541 wrote:^ Kwame Brown never had production anywhere near Dion's current line. He averaged 5 points and 4 rebounds as a rookie. Your post makes no sense.

Quoted the wrong person. Just a sarcastic response anyways
Feb 21, 2013 11:01am
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Feb 21, 2013 11:17 AM
Pick6;1393555 wrote:When Dion was coming off the bench, he was puttting up better numbers in nearly every statistical category than any other 6th men out there.
Including JR Smith and Jamal Crawford.
Feb 21, 2013 11:17am
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
Feb 21, 2013 11:23 AM
hoops23;1393586 wrote:Including JR Smith and Jamal Crawford.
correct.
Feb 21, 2013 11:23am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Feb 21, 2013 11:45 AM
sleeper;1393550 wrote:Not even sure what this means. That's like saying "Well only in actual game play, not potential game play". :rolleyes:
Fine I'll be more explicit. In no f*cking fantasy world is Dion the 2nd best rookie in this class. Anthony Davis is.

There, does that clear it up?
Feb 21, 2013 11:45am
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
Feb 21, 2013 12:06 PM
lhslep134;1393612 wrote:Fine I'll be more explicit. In no f*cking fantasy world is Dion the 2nd best rookie in this class. Anthony Davis is.

There, does that clear it up?
Meh, its possible. Just because Lilliard is having a good rookie season, doesnt mean he can maintain it. And its really not that much better than Dion. He is shooting 41% compared to Dion's 40%, playing 38.5 minutes per game compared to Dion's 29.5 and is only averaging 4 more points per game.

Dion's PER 48 is actually better at 23.1 PPG compared to Lilliard's 22.9
I would say Dion's ceiling is higher than Lilliard's.
Feb 21, 2013 12:06pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 21, 2013 12:15 PM
lhslep134;1393612 wrote:Fine I'll be more explicit. In no f*cking fantasy world is Dion the 2nd best rookie in this class. Anthony Davis is.

There, does that clear it up?
Have you watched Davis play? Dude is the next Hasheem Thabeet; wouldn't be surprised to see him in the D-league next year.
Feb 21, 2013 12:15pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Feb 21, 2013 12:32 PM
Pick6;1393623 wrote:Meh, its possible. Just because Lilliard is having a good rookie season, doesnt mean he can maintain it. And its really not that much better than Dion. He is shooting 41% compared to Dion's 40%, playing 38.5 minutes per game compared to Dion's 29.5 and is only averaging 4 more points per game.

Dion's PER 48 is actually better at 23.1 PPG compared to Lilliard's 22.9
I would say Dion's ceiling is higher than Lilliard's.
This is the exact reason advanced stats were created and why you can't just look at PPG.

Here are the categories Lillard is better at than Waiters statistically (and actually):

PER
True shooting percentage
Effective field goal percentage
[Their rebounding percentages are close enough to be negligible]
Assist percentage
Offensive rating (defensive rating is the same for both)
Win shares (3.5 to .6)

So really, it's not that close between the two
Feb 21, 2013 12:32pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 21, 2013 12:37 PM
Dion is also option #2 or #3 at best on the Cavs. I think Lillard is better, but Dion isn't too far off.
Feb 21, 2013 12:37pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Feb 21, 2013 12:37 PM
lhslep134;1393645 wrote:This is the exact reason advanced stats were created and why you can't just look at PPG.

Here are the categories Lillard is better at than Waiters statistically (and actually):

PER
True shooting percentage
Effective field goal percentage
[Their rebounding percentages are close enough to be negligible]
Assist percentage
Offensive rating (defensive rating is the same for both)
Win shares (3.5 to .6)

So really, it's not that close between the two
The three bolded are kind of no brainers.

Of course Dion isn't going to have a higher assist%, he's not a PG. However, he can handle the rock and make plays by getting to the basket and either finishing, getting fouled, or dumping it off.

Dion's offensive game is inconsistent thus far, but you can see his offensive potential is through the roof. He doesn't have the talent around him that Lillard does either. Kyrie is the best player on either team, but Portland is a more complete team with better vets.

Win shares... Again, Portland is a better team.

As it is, you can definitely make the case the Waiters is one of the top 2 rookies in this class, and at WORST the 3rd. That's saying A LOT, especially since he was picked 4th, but projected in the 8-10 range. The Cavs scouting department really has done a great job with these guys.

Look at the improvement of Tristan in his first 15 months or so. Amazing progress. Dion has a good work ethic by all accounts and his game will continue to get better. He kept the Cavs afloat last night until Kyrie took the 4th quarter over.
Feb 21, 2013 12:37pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 21, 2013 12:41 PM
Yeah TT has really blossomed nicely. He's a much better player than Davis will ever be and we got him at #4. Davis is so overrated; really a garbage player.
Feb 21, 2013 12:41pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

Administrator

49,363 posts
Feb 21, 2013 12:46 PM
So how far away are the Cavs from being a bottom playoff team? A winning playoff team? A title contender?
Feb 21, 2013 12:46pm
GOONx19's avatar

GOONx19

An exceptional poster.

7,147 posts
Feb 21, 2013 12:51 PM
One year from playoffs. One player and two years away from being a winning playoff team. Two players and four years from title contenders, excluding injuries and loss of free agents.
Feb 21, 2013 12:51pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 21, 2013 1:06 PM
Ironman92;1393656 wrote:So how far away are the Cavs from being a bottom playoff team? A winning playoff team? A title contender?
I think they are going to hit both metrics next year besides title contender. I believe they will be a title contender in two years.
Feb 21, 2013 1:06pm
GOONx19's avatar

GOONx19

An exceptional poster.

7,147 posts
Feb 21, 2013 1:13 PM
GOONx19;1393659 wrote:One year from playoffs. One player and two years away from being a winning playoff team. Two players and four years from title contenders, excluding injuries and loss of free agents.
And this is assuming they do not get Lebron.
Feb 21, 2013 1:13pm
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
Feb 21, 2013 1:14 PM
sleeper;1393632 wrote:Have you watched Davis play? Dude is the next Hasheem Thabeet; wouldn't be surprised to see him in the D-league next year.
He did a pretty good job on TT last night.
Feb 21, 2013 1:14pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Feb 21, 2013 1:18 PM
GOONx19;1393672 wrote:And this is assuming they do not get Lebron.
What if they do?
Feb 21, 2013 1:18pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Feb 21, 2013 1:21 PM
Pick6;1393675 wrote:He did a pretty good job on TT last night.

Lol
Feb 21, 2013 1:21pm
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
Feb 21, 2013 1:23 PM
Midstate01;1393683 wrote:Lol
2-8 shooting.
Feb 21, 2013 1:23pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 21, 2013 1:23 PM
Pick6;1393675 wrote:He did a pretty good job on TT last night.
lol? No he didn't. TT > Davis and it's not even close.
Feb 21, 2013 1:23pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 21, 2013 1:24 PM
Pick6;1393685 wrote:2-8 shooting.
Davis, 2-7 shooting, 4 rebounds 12 points.

TT, 2-8 shooting, 13 rebounds, 9 points.

I'll take TT any day of the week.
Feb 21, 2013 1:24pm
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
Feb 21, 2013 1:27 PM
sleeper;1393687 wrote:Davis, 2-7 shooting, 4 rebounds 12 points.

TT, 2-8 shooting, 13 rebounds, 9 points.

I'll take TT any day of the week.
I never said he played better. I said he did a solid job on defense in holding TT to 25% shooting last night, and kept him below his average in scoring. No way in hell is Davis another Thabeet.
Feb 21, 2013 1:27pm