Reds vs Padres...Game 1

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ Reds vs Padres...Game 1
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Jul 30, 2012 2:08 PM
slcoach;1237031 wrote:I just don't get all the hatred for Stubbs. The guy is only in his 3rd season. Big damn deal that he strikes out a lot. A lot of guys strike out. Also, how many bunt hits do you see from right handed hitters? It just doesn't happen. With today's scouting and whatnot, Stubbs ability to bunt means nothing. Stubbs is what he is and I get people want him to be better, but the Reds are not going to have all stars at every position. I like what Stubbs brings and that is above average defense, great speed, and good power. I know this message board loves Heisey, but anytime Heisey has had extended playing time, he ends up worse than Stubbs.

I think it's more, we want to see improvement. He really hasn't gotten any better. I like Stubbs. But if he was more consistently getting on base, he'd score a ton with votto hitting doubles.
Jul 30, 2012 2:08pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Jul 30, 2012 2:14 PM
slcoach;1237031 wrote:I just don't get all the hatred for Stubbs. The guy is only in his 3rd season. Big damn deal that he strikes out a lot. A lot of guys strike out. Also, how many bunt hits do you see from right handed hitters? It just doesn't happen. With today's scouting and whatnot, Stubbs ability to bunt means nothing. Stubbs is what he is and I get people want him to be better, but the Reds are not going to have all stars at every position. I like what Stubbs brings and that is above average defense, great speed, and good power. I know this message board loves Heisey, but anytime Heisey has had extended playing time, he ends up worse than Stubbs.
Just like the above stated...we went to see improvement and he hasnt shown that.

Many were getting on bailey and i always defended him as he was a young talent, and he was showing some improvement every year (on the stat sheet AND with his attitude).

Stubby has def been playing alot better. I dont know if he will ever be a 1-2 guy who will get on base alot as he was a big K victim in th eminors as well, but could be a great 6-7 hole guy
Jul 30, 2012 2:14pm
redstreak one's avatar

redstreak one

Senior Member

1,152 posts
Jul 30, 2012 2:20 PM
Reds vs. Cards lead series 5-4
Reds vs. Nationals behind 2-5
Reds vs. Giants lead 4-3
Reds vs. Pirates behind 4-5
Reds vs. Atlanta lead 5-1
Reds vs. Yankees lead 2-1
Reds vs. Tigers behind 1-2
Reds. vs. Dodgers behind 1-2
Reds vs. Diamondbacks 2-2

Total 26-26 vs. teams at .500 and above.
Jul 30, 2012 2:20pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Jul 30, 2012 2:25 PM
redstreak one;1237051 wrote:Reds vs. Cards lead series 5-4
Reds vs. Nationals behind 2-5
Reds vs. Giants lead 4-3
Reds vs. Pirates behind 4-5
Reds vs. Atlanta lead 5-1
Reds vs. Yankees lead 2-1
Reds vs. Tigers behind 1-2
Reds. vs. Dodgers behind 1-2
Reds vs. Diamondbacks 2-2

Total 26-26 vs. teams at .500 and above.
I have said it before and it goes for every sport........play around .500 against the best, and dominate the bad and you have yourself a great season.
Jul 30, 2012 2:25pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Jul 30, 2012 2:31 PM
Post the numbers of all the other teams who are over .500 against other above .500 teams. I guarantee the Reds aren't that far off in-comparison.

There is a reason some teams out there have awful records.

Pirates are 9-2 against Houston
Giants are 6-3 against San Diego
Nationals are 9-3 against New York
Braves are 6-2 against Miami, 7-2 against Philadelphia
Dodgers are 8-4 against San Diego
Jul 30, 2012 2:31pm
S

slcoach

Senior Member

421 posts
Jul 30, 2012 2:35 PM
thavoice;1237044 wrote:Just like the above stated...we went to see improvement and he hasnt shown that.

Many were getting on bailey and i always defended him as he was a young talent, and he was showing some improvement every year (on the stat sheet AND with his attitude).

Stubby has def been playing alot better. I dont know if he will ever be a 1-2 guy who will get on base alot as he was a big K victim in th eminors as well, but could be a great 6-7 hole guy

Fair enough. I think when Joey comes back you may see BP move up in the order and maybe Stubbs can get some at bats in the bottom of the order. I get the fact that people say he is 27, but this is only his 3rd full season.

I see people wanting Victorino. Victorino has a .024 better OBP. Over the course of the season, that is getting on base roughly 1 more time every 10 games. Drew has 3 more home runs and Shane has 4 more stolen bases. Victorino also has 87 more plate appearances. Stubbs is making just over 500K and under team control through 2015. Victorino is making over 7mil and is a free agent after the year.

I see people wanting Choo. There is no doubt he is an upgrade, but he can't play center and projects to make almost 7mil in 2013.

As I typed this out, Peter Gammons just said on MLB network that the Reds are calling about Jacoby Ellsbury. Wow!
Jul 30, 2012 2:35pm
Rotinaj's avatar

Rotinaj

Senior Member

7,699 posts
Jul 30, 2012 2:46 PM
Lol I doubt we get ellsbury. Sure would be amazing though.
Jul 30, 2012 2:46pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Jul 30, 2012 2:47 PM
slcoach;1237031 wrote:I just don't get all the hatred for Stubbs. The guy is only in his 3rd season. Big damn deal that he strikes out a lot. A lot of guys strike out. Also, how many bunt hits do you see from right handed hitters? It just doesn't happen. With today's scouting and whatnot, Stubbs ability to bunt means nothing. Stubbs is what he is and I get people want him to be better, but the Reds are not going to have all stars at every position. I like what Stubbs brings and that is above average defense, great speed, and good power. I know this message board loves Heisey, but anytime Heisey has had extended playing time, he ends up worse than Stubbs.
Really? Heisey hit nearly .300 when he was filling in for Stubbs everyday when he was on the DL. I was a Stubbs fan when he got called up, but he hasn't improved a lick since. Also, even from the right side, with his speed, he should have at least 15-20 bunt hits a year.
Jul 30, 2012 2:47pm
Terry_Tate's avatar

Terry_Tate

Senior Member

7,606 posts
Jul 30, 2012 3:11 PM
redstreak one;1237051 wrote:Reds vs. Cards lead series 5-4
Reds vs. Nationals behind 2-5
Reds vs. Giants lead 4-3
Reds vs. Pirates behind 4-5
Reds vs. Atlanta lead 5-1
Reds vs. Yankees lead 2-1
Reds vs. Tigers behind 1-2
Reds. vs. Dodgers behind 1-2
Reds vs. Diamondbacks 2-2

Total 26-26 vs. teams at .500 and above.

26-25, not too shabby. Means they are 35-15 against teams below. 500.
Jul 30, 2012 3:11pm
S

slcoach

Senior Member

421 posts
Jul 30, 2012 3:15 PM
se-alum;1237099 wrote:Really? Heisey hit nearly .300 when he was filling in for Stubbs everyday when he was on the DL. I was a Stubbs fan when he got called up, but he hasn't improved a lick since. Also, even from the right side, with his speed, he should have at least 15-20 bunt hits a year.
Really?......Not even close. Stubbs went out on June 5th. He missed 17 games (Reds went 9-8). Heisey played in 15 of those games starting 14 (Reds went 7-8). He hit .242 with 1 walk, 1 homer and 3 RBI's in 65 plate appearances. Not sure if this link works or not but here are the numbers.

[URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=heisech01&t=b&year=2012"]http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=heisech01&t=b&year=2012



[/URL]
Jul 30, 2012 3:15pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Jul 30, 2012 3:26 PM
slcoach;1237119 wrote:Really?......Not even close. Stubbs went out on June 5th. He missed 17 games (Reds went 9-8). Heisey played in 15 of those games starting 14 (Reds went 7-8). He hit .242 with 1 walk, 1 homer and 3 RBI's in 65 plate appearances. Not sure if this link works or not but here are the numbers.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=heisech01&t=b&year=2012
Yea, my time period was off. I was thinking of the stretch in May when he started like 15 of 17 games, and his BA went from .200 to .280. From May 13th to June 24th, Heisey started 31 of 34 games, and hit .287. Has Stubbs ever had a stretch like that in his career?
Jul 30, 2012 3:26pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Jul 30, 2012 3:30 PM
Jay Bruce could play CF. He's athletic and skilled enough to do so. Acquiring Choo would give the Reds a deadly middle of the order with Choo, Votto, Phillips and Bruce. At that point, the pressure on the leadoff guy whether it be Cozart or Stubbs would be significantly lower.
Jul 30, 2012 3:30pm
Terry_Tate's avatar

Terry_Tate

Senior Member

7,606 posts
Jul 30, 2012 3:59 PM
Drew Stubbs named Co-NL Player of the Week.
Jul 30, 2012 3:59pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Jul 30, 2012 4:01 PM
If only his job was being threatened all year long?
Jul 30, 2012 4:01pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
Jul 30, 2012 4:03 PM
Id get an insta-chubb if we got ellsbury. Hes one of my favorite players to watch.

I just have this feeling that Walt is gonna make a huge move soon.
Jul 30, 2012 4:03pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Jul 30, 2012 4:19 PM
The Ellsbury link is interesting. It's a gamble for both sides. However, Ellsbury of 2011 would make the Reds NL Favorites at worst...
Jul 30, 2012 4:19pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Jul 30, 2012 4:44 PM
I'll pass. Injury prone and we'd have to give up wayyyy too much.
Jul 30, 2012 4:44pm
S

slcoach

Senior Member

421 posts
Jul 30, 2012 4:48 PM
se-alum;1237131 wrote:Yea, my time period was off. I was thinking of the stretch in May when he started like 15 of 17 games, and his BA went from .200 to .280. From May 13th to June 24th, Heisey started 31 of 34 games, and hit .287. Has Stubbs ever had a stretch like that in his career?
Well during this "good" stretch for Heisey his line was .287/.319/.706. He walked 4 times, hit 2 homers, drove in 10 runs, and stole a base.

During this horrible season for Stubbs, in 30 starts from 4/19 to 5/24 Drew's line was .272/.326/.889. He walked 10 times, hit 6 bombs, drove in 13, and swiped 8 bags.

It boils down to beauty in the eye of the beholder. If people don't like Stubbs, but like Heisey, they will feel Heisey is a much better player. The numbers just don't back that up.
Jul 30, 2012 4:48pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Jul 30, 2012 4:57 PM
slcoach;1237197 wrote:Well during this "good" stretch for Heisey his line was .287/.319/.706. He walked 4 times, hit 2 homers, drove in 10 runs, and stole a base.

During this horrible season for Stubbs, in 30 starts from 4/19 to 5/24 Drew's line was .272/.326/.889. He walked 10 times, hit 6 bombs, drove in 13, and swiped 8 bags.

It boils down to beauty in the eye of the beholder. If people don't like Stubbs, but like Heisey, they will feel Heisey is a much better player. The numbers just don't back that up.

I like heisey. But he's a fastball hitter. That's about it. He doesn't make good adjustments at the plate. He does play pretty good d. But he also gets bad breaks on the ball too.

Stubbs is the best option.
Jul 30, 2012 4:57pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Jul 30, 2012 5:06 PM
slcoach;1237197 wrote:Well during this "good" stretch for Heisey his line was .287/.319/.706. He walked 4 times, hit 2 homers, drove in 10 runs, and stole a base.

During this horrible season for Stubbs, in 30 starts from 4/19 to 5/24 Drew's line was .272/.326/.889. He walked 10 times, hit 6 bombs, drove in 13, and swiped 8 bags.

It boils down to beauty in the eye of the beholder. If people don't like Stubbs, but like Heisey, they will feel Heisey is a much better player. The numbers just don't back that up.
Oh, I'm not saying Heisey is the answer either, but I've seen nearly 3 full seasons from Stubbs, and he hasn't improved, at all. We have no idea what Heisey could do as any everyday player, but I highly doubt it's worse than Stubbs. However, I would have much less of a problem with Stubbs if Dusty would bat him 8th, where he belongs.
Jul 30, 2012 5:06pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

Senior Member

14,766 posts
Jul 30, 2012 5:31 PM
se-alum;1237213 wrote:Oh, I'm not saying Heisey is the answer either, but I've seen nearly 3 full seasons from Stubbs, and he hasn't improved, at all. We have no idea what Heisey could do as any everyday player, but I highly doubt it's worse than Stubbs. However, I would have much less of a problem with Stubbs if Dusty would bat him 8th, where he belongs.

7th. Catcher bats 8th, dusty says so!!!
Jul 30, 2012 5:31pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Jul 30, 2012 5:36 PM
Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes Reds did ask about Ellssbury, as has been reported elsewhere, but Sox not looking to move him now. This winter, tho, could be interesting
Retweeted by Joel Luckhaupt

...
Jul 30, 2012 5:36pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Jul 30, 2012 5:38 PM
Jul 30, 2012 5:38pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Jul 30, 2012 5:44 PM
Why is Ellsbury injury prone? His 2 major injuries and only DL stints of his career were on 2 fluke plays (collisions with another player). While lingering and lasting effects could hurt his value a little, it's hard to say that he's "prone."
Jul 30, 2012 5:44pm
Rotinaj's avatar

Rotinaj

Senior Member

7,699 posts
Jul 30, 2012 6:03 PM
Ludwick needs to start hitting 5th.
Jul 30, 2012 6:03pm