LJ
Posts: 16,351
Jun 27, 2012 8:43am
This case is a good example of why I like Texas's Stand Your Ground law better than Florida's. Texas has a provocation clause. Basically, if you provoke an attack, you are then considered in mutual combat and do not have the right to deadly force.
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Jun 27, 2012 9:55am
yeah but zimmerman never really confronted martin. yeah he got out of his car, but he only walked down a sidewalk without ever even seeing martin. and there is no evidence zimmerman actually intended to confront martin. keeping someone in eyesight at a distance really isnt confronting is it? however, it was martin who turned around and confronted zimmerman.....according to zimmerman...
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Jun 27, 2012 1:08pm
IMO, that's a rather ineffective distinction. How are you going to get 12 jurors to agree if Zimmerman provoked the attack? I can see some instances where that might apply, but in this case I don't think 12 people agree that following/observing equates to provoking an attack. You could be arguing with someone and that still doesn't imply you provoked a physical assault.LJ;1212759 wrote:This case is a good example of why I like Texas's Stand Your Ground law better than Florida's. Texas has a provocation clause. Basically, if you provoke an attack, you are then considered in mutual combat and do not have the right to deadly force.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Jun 27, 2012 1:13pm
The other interesting thing about that article...When you think about the complaints of not doing a thorough investigation or just letting Zimmerman walk. Well, he took two lie detector tests. The recommendation of the detective was he be charged. But I would imagine when the police chief and/or the prosecutor looked at the evidence, they declined.
We'll see what happens in court. IMO, this case was only brought due to political/media pressure. Doesn't mean I think Zimmerman shouldn't be accountable for something, whatever that is, but I just don't see where you're going to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he didn't act in self-defense.
We'll see what happens in court. IMO, this case was only brought due to political/media pressure. Doesn't mean I think Zimmerman shouldn't be accountable for something, whatever that is, but I just don't see where you're going to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he didn't act in self-defense.
rmolin73
Posts: 4,278
Jun 27, 2012 8:34pm
pouring*ccrunner609;1213483 wrote:he was charged because the AG and police were pressured to do so by black racist activists that were pooring into the area.
The evidence will show that GZ was being attacked and will walk.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Jun 27, 2012 8:52pm
I'm not sure how the evidence will show that. What I don't think it will show is murder beyond a reasonable doubt. Sadly, good aim might ultimately be what keeps Zimmerman from an extended prison term.ccrunner609;1213483 wrote: The evidence will show that GZ was being attacked and will walk.
Big_Mirg_ZHS
Posts: 2,079
Jun 28, 2012 11:28am
CCrunner are you racist?? You sure are coming off as one.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Jun 28, 2012 11:43am
I look at is as hilarious. In an attempt to show how black racism is the only reason this is a case, he's coming off as a bigger racist than any of those guys. Or at least at the same level.Big_Mirg_ZHS;1213882 wrote:CCrunner are you racist?? You sure are coming off as one.
It's always funny when people become what they hate. Weakness is great.
Speedofsand
Posts: 5,529
Jun 29, 2012 12:17pm
O'Mara is one hell of an attorney. I've been watching this bond hearing all morning, he has proven his case for bond. Probation officer said Zman was completely cooperative while out. Zman's father said he is positive its George yelling for help on the taped 911 call. (O'Mara will shred Trayvon's dad for saying it wasn't Trayvon until Al & Jesse talked to him.) The state DA has gotten loud at the end, harping on the money in the account and calling Zman and his wife liars. Plenty of self-defense evidence has been entered today. And I'm sure O'Mara has plenty more for trial. They just recessed, judge will now decide but he didn't say how soon.
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mella
Posts: 647
Jun 29, 2012 6:09pm
Zimmerman got out of his car and started a confrontation knowing he was carrying a gun. Zimmerman is a piece of crap who wanted to act like a man because he had a gun. One person is dead and Zimmerman should spent a few years in prison.
LJ
Posts: 16,351
Jun 29, 2012 6:15pm
ccrunner609;1215445 wrote:TM and his pattern of thuggish behavior and police record will not be good for the prosecution.
Should we talk about Z's violent arrest record?
Speedofsand
Posts: 5,529
Jun 29, 2012 6:39pm
He got out of his car because the dispatcher wanted a street sign for location. He told her 'the clubhouse' of the apts. but was asked again for a street name. The street changes names around the circle, through the sidewalk where he saw Trayvon go. He knew Trayvon went between the back patios of 2 bldgs. He lost sight of Trayvon, was walking back to his car and got confronted.mella;1215454 wrote:Zimmerman got out of his car and started a confrontation knowing he was carrying a gun. Zimmerman is a piece of crap who wanted to act like a man because he had a gun. One person is dead and Zimmerman should spent a few years in prison.
If Trayvon keeps on walking to his daddy's girlfriend's apt., no one would have been hurt.
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mella
Posts: 647
Jun 29, 2012 7:22pm
If I think someone is following me in a car I'll cut through a yard. I've told my children if they are walking down the street and a car is following you cut through the closest yard and attempt to get back home. Zimmerman is a piece of crap who was looking to play tough guy because he had a gun. If Trayvon tried to mug Zimmerman and got shot I wouldn't think Zimmerman was a piece of crap as he was defending himself, but in my opinion Zimmerman wanted to be a tough guy and ended someone life for no reason.
hasbeen
Posts: 6,504
Jun 29, 2012 7:30pm
Funny..you didn't say go after the person following youmella;1215492 wrote:If I think someone is following me in a car I'll cut through a yard. I've told my children if they are walking down the street and a car is following you cut through the closest yard and attempt to get back home. Zimmerman is a piece of crap who was looking to play tough guy because he had a gun. If Trayvon tried to mug Zimmerman and got shot I wouldn't think Zimmerman was a piece of crap as he was defending himself, but in my opinion Zimmerman wanted to be a tough guy and ended someone life for no reason.
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mella
Posts: 647
Jun 29, 2012 7:33pm
Truth is, 2 people know exactly what happened and one of them is dead. Based on what I have heard and read I still think Zimmerman is still a piece of crap.
hasbeen
Posts: 6,504
Jun 29, 2012 7:35pm
mella;1215495 wrote:Truth is, 2 people know exactly what happened and one of them is dead. Based on what I have heard and read I still think Zimmerman is still a piece of crap.
And both of them could have avoided confrontation. With the information provided, both are to blame.
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mella
Posts: 647
Jun 29, 2012 7:37pm
Probably to some degree.hasbeen;1215496 wrote:And both of them could have avoided confrontation. With the information provided, both are to blame.
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Jun 29, 2012 8:22pm
being a piece of crap is not illegal and doesnt mean he is guilty.mella;1215495 wrote:Truth is, 2 people know exactly what happened and one of them is dead. Based on what I have heard and read I still think Zimmerman is still a piece of crap.
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mella
Posts: 647
Jun 29, 2012 8:26pm
He is guilty of something, probably not first degree murder. Could be manslaugter. He got out of his car with a gun, with the intent to get into a confrontation.Glory Days;1215510 wrote:being a piece of crap is not illegal and doesnt mean he is guilty.
rmolin73
Posts: 4,278
Jun 29, 2012 9:52pm
Which one has an arrest record for violent behavior oh wise gym teacher?ccrunner609;1215445 wrote:TM and his pattern of thuggish behavior and police record will not be good for the prosecution.
password
Posts: 2,360
Jun 29, 2012 10:07pm
When will the trial be held?
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Jun 30, 2012 7:46am
there is absolutely no proof of that. not only that, but if he wanted to confront Martin, he had 3 chances to confront him before that and didnt.mella;1215519 wrote:He is guilty of something, probably not first degree murder. Could be manslaugter. He got out of his car with a gun, with the intent to get into a confrontation.
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mella
Posts: 647
Jun 30, 2012 11:55am
1. Zimmerman got out of his car.Glory Days;1215684 wrote:there is absolutely no proof of that. not only that, but if he wanted to confront Martin, he had 3 chances to confront him before that and didnt.
2. Zimmerman had a gun.
3. Zimmerman had an encounter with TM that turned into a confrontation.
4. Zimmerman shot an unarmed person after he was told to stay in his car.
These are all facts.
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mella
Posts: 647
Jun 30, 2012 12:09pm
I'm not saying GZ will be found guilty beyond a resonable doubt. But he is a piece of crap that was looking for trouble, felt like a man because he was carrying a gun, should have stayed in his car and let the police do their job. None of the points have to stand alone because they did not occur alone, they are sequential events that all occurred on the same evening that resulted in one person shooting another person.
Speedofsand
Posts: 5,529
Jun 30, 2012 12:11pm
1&2 are fact. 3 is true, but you don't know who the aggressor was. 4.- You are dead wrong, keep ignoring my quote and reply of your other post. :rolleyes:mella;1215740 wrote:1. Zimmerman got out of his car.
2. Zimmerman had a gun.
3. Zimmerman had an encounter with TM that turned into a confrontation.
4. Zimmerman shot an unarmed person after he was told to stay in his car.
These are all facts.
Link to Orlando Sentinel
Why turn a bond hearing into a mini-trial, O'Mara was asked.
Because when the judge revoked Zimmerman's bond four weeks ago, Lester wrote "… the evidence against him is strong."
"With that thought in mind, I present to you the state's weaknesses," O'Mara said.
Prosecutors put on no evidence. De la Rionda relied on argument.