Red Legs @ Metropolitans - Game 1

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swamisez's avatar

swamisez

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Jun 15, 2012 9:45 PM
i'm not trying to get into a pissing match w I92, I just feel Valdez can step in and play center field and do it well. If it were a corner position I would wonder, but I think he is playing center because it is the easiest position to play in the outfield. You get the truest jumps from the position because of sight lines.
Jun 15, 2012 9:45pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

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Jun 15, 2012 9:46 PM
Willie Harris, always raking!!
Jun 15, 2012 9:46pm
Rotinaj's avatar

Rotinaj

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Jun 15, 2012 10:02 PM
Reds straight wrecking fools!!!
Jun 15, 2012 10:02pm
gerb131's avatar

gerb131

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9,932 posts
Jun 15, 2012 10:04 PM
Nice start for Arroyo hes been a hair shaky as of late.
Nice to see Valdez drive a few in.
Jun 15, 2012 10:04pm
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Jun 15, 2012 10:04 PM
4 game win streak, 4 game lead (if Cards score holds up), 9 games over. Awesome.
Jun 15, 2012 10:04pm
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justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Jun 15, 2012 10:05 PM
gerb131;1201562 wrote:Nice start for Arroyo hes been a hair shaky as of late.
Nice to see Valdez drive a few in.

His last start was 7 IP, 2 R.
Jun 15, 2012 10:05pm
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gerb131

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9,932 posts
Jun 15, 2012 10:12 PM
justincredible;1201565 wrote:His last start was 7 IP, 2 R.
Well he sucked it up @ Houston and Pittsburgh before the Tigers game, I guess I should have said nice to see Arroyo string together 2 consecutive good outings.
Jun 15, 2012 10:12pm
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Rotinaj

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Jun 15, 2012 10:19 PM
justincredible;1201564 wrote:4 game win streak, 4 game lead (if Cards score holds up), 9 games over. Awesome.
#Winning
Jun 15, 2012 10:19pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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Jun 15, 2012 10:55 PM
swamisez;1201545 wrote:i'm not trying to get into a pissing match w I92, I just feel Valdez can step in and play center field and do it well. If it were a corner position I would wonder, but I think he is playing center because it is the easiest position to play in the outfield. You get the truest jumps from the position because of sight lines.

Oh I already gave the Jerry Hairston comments on him making the two best plays I've ever seen in CF for the Reds...Valdez will be fine.

As for the CF/RF most important argument.

Willie Mays
Ken Griffey Jr
Andruw Jones
Jim Edmonds
Torii Hunter
Devon White

Where'd they play?

After Ken Griffey Jr won 10 gold gloves and Torii Hunter won 9 gold gloves......what field did they switch to?

Had to piss a little.

Ichiro and Clemente and Bruce, Dale Murphy and other right fielders could play CF.

I love outfield and hate that as a coach every damn parent thinks it's an insult to play the OF...pissed me off.
Jun 15, 2012 10:55pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

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Jun 15, 2012 10:57 PM
Has the offense finally found it's stride? Everyone, sans Jay Bruce, are hitting right now.
Jun 15, 2012 10:57pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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Jun 15, 2012 11:04 PM
se-alum;1201604 wrote:Has the offense finally found it's stride? Everyone, sans Jay Bruce, are hitting right now.

Virtually everyone is clicking.....except Brucey.
Jun 15, 2012 11:04pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

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Jun 15, 2012 11:13 PM
I think Heisey and Frazier have been a big reason why this offense is doing so well. Heisey finally getting a chance to play everyday, and he's hitting .290 over the last month. Frazier has an electric bat, and his pitch selection is really improving. I'm scared for the returns of Rolen, and Stubbs(in a couple weeks).
Jun 15, 2012 11:13pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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Jun 15, 2012 11:16 PM
Heisey will lose the most playing time.

Frazier is becoming iconic at getting hits off of retarded swing.

Someone throw me some numbers for the Reds of BABIP? Interested in Frazier and Luddy....seems high.
Jun 15, 2012 11:16pm
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Ironman92

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Jun 15, 2012 11:21 PM
Stubbs when back will get 39/40 starts.

If Rolen and Stubbs are back. Rolen will get 3/5 starts at 3rd, Frazier will get 2/5 at 3rd and 2/15 in LF... Ludwick will get 10/15 in LF and Heisey will get 3/15 in LF (all against righties) and 1/40 in CF and 1/40 in RF.....when Rolen gets injured again....Heisey will get 5/15 in LF.
Jun 15, 2012 11:21pm
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Azubuike24

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Jun 15, 2012 11:22 PM
The big question is...does Dusty rotate Frazier in LF when Rolen is back? Stubbs on the DL. Heisey and Ludwick have both been streaky. At what point does Frazier get the nod over Rolen, or at least get regular time elsewhere? He's been the most deserving out of himself, Rolen, Heisey, Stubbs or Ludwick for regular PT...
Jun 15, 2012 11:22pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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Jun 15, 2012 11:23 PM
Cardinals lost funny....Yadier got robbed on the web gem of the night to lead off the 9th and Tyler Greene was called out at home....but looked safe.
Jun 15, 2012 11:23pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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Jun 15, 2012 11:26 PM
If Stubbs stays out and Heisey and Rolen play.....I'd guess.

Rolen 3/5 and Frazier 2/5 at 3rd

I think Frazier would get maybe 1/4 in LF with Luddy and maybe 1/10 in LF with Bruce in CF and Luddy in RF.
Jun 15, 2012 11:26pm
M

mhs95_06

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8,167 posts
Jun 15, 2012 11:37 PM
se-alum;1201610 wrote:I think Heisey and Frazier have been a big reason why this offense is doing so well. Heisey finally getting a chance to play everyday, and he's hitting .290 over the last month. Frazier has an electric bat, and his pitch selection is really improving. I'm scared for the returns of Rolen, and Stubbs(in a couple weeks).
I agree that the hitting of Heisey and Frazier has been very important to the Reds offense, but I don't think the more playing time was the reason Heisey improved. I think it was it finally snapped in with him the proper mechanics and approach to hit major league pitching. The pitchers learned to not throw it in Heisey's sweet spot that is not that sweet for other right handed batter, so his HRs are way down, but now he has learned to do much better on the pitches they used to get him out on. In fact I think his playing much more than before is now a factor in him being injured.
Jun 15, 2012 11:37pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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Jun 15, 2012 11:45 PM
Heisey plays all-out and it seems like he's just busting it non-stop so many times a game....laying out, crashing into walls, then he gets the flu bug a bit...I think the flu weakened the body a touch to assist the injury.
Jun 15, 2012 11:45pm
swamisez's avatar

swamisez

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1,990 posts
Jun 15, 2012 11:55 PM
Ironman92;1201601 wrote:Oh I already gave the Jerry Hairston comments on him making the two best plays I've ever seen in CF for the Reds...Valdez will be fine.

As for the CF/RF most important argument.

Willie Mays
Ken Griffey Jr
Andruw Jones
Jim Edmonds
Torii Hunter
Devon White

Where'd they play?

After Ken Griffey Jr won 10 gold gloves and Torii Hunter won 9 gold gloves......what field did they switch to?

Had to piss a little.

Ichiro and Clemente and Bruce, Dale Murphy and other right fielders could play CF.

I love outfield and hate that as a coach every damn parent thinks it's an insult to play the OF...pissed me off.
Posting a list of players who won the gold glove for centerfield doesn't really contribute to the discussion of which is the more important outfield position. I can post a list of gold glovers too, many of which are equally as good if not better than the list you supplied (Clemente, Kaline, Dave Parker, Jesse Barfield. Hell, Hank Aaron was a right fielder and won a few gold gloves). I would look at things like assists and range factor.

Finally, your omission of Joe Dimaggio arguably the greatest outfielder of all time, is a crime.
Jun 15, 2012 11:55pm
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Ironman92

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Jun 16, 2012 12:20 AM
Had to piss? Lol

It's all good.

I just don't understand how some of the best centerfielder's of all-time switch to RF late in their careers. Seriously, Griffey and Hunter had 10 and 9 gold gloves....but could no longer handle the position....but were moved to play RF.

Where did DiMaggio play in the OF?

More ground to cover. Up the middle defense?
Jun 16, 2012 12:20am
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Ironman92

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Jun 16, 2012 12:26 AM
The arm seems more important in RF....speed and first step reaction are more important in CF.

Does Jeff Francoeur save more runs by holding runners to a lesser base every so often or throwing a guy out 15 times a year or does the CF get to more balls than the RF would to save runs?

List the top 20 defensive OF of all-time, how many played RF? 5?
Jun 16, 2012 12:26am
swamisez's avatar

swamisez

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Jun 16, 2012 1:04 AM
How are you measuring the top defensive outfielders of all time? By gold gloves? Its not a qualifying statistic.

If I had to rank the best outfielders of all time, top 3. It would be Mays, Dimaggio, Ichiro.
2 played center, 1 plays right. But where they play is errant because Mays was the best athlete and played center because the polo grounds was 475 to center and Dimaggio played center because old yankee stadium was 460 to center.

Top 10 outfielders of all time (based on combo of outfield assists, range factor, fielding percentage)
1. ichiro (26 errors in 4000 chances......are you kidding me?)
2. mays (140 errors in over 7,000 chances)
3. al kaline (73 errors in 5200 chances)
4. clemente (140 in 5,000 chances, 8th in assists)
5. speaker (all time leader in outfield assists, 220 errors in 7000 chances)
6. griffey (89 errors in 5,000 chances, top 20 in assists)
7. dimaggio (150 errors in 5,000 chances)
8. shane victorino (no idea he has such an amazing career defensively. look it up)
9. mel ott (top 10 in fielding percentage, and 21st in assists)
10. barry bonds (surprisingly high in fielding percentage, assists)

(highlighted names are right fielders)

For the record, Ichiro is doing what no one has ever done before defensively and has since been forgotten since the early 2000's. This guy is putting up ty cobb type hitting numbers, playing the best defensive outfield in the history of the game, and is doing so despite playing 8 years in Japan.
Jun 16, 2012 1:04am
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Ironman92

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Jun 16, 2012 9:04 AM
Do you mind if we agree to disagree?
Jun 16, 2012 9:04am