I've been away for a few days...missed out on good conversation.

A couple of things:

1) The whole "cult" discussion. By definition a cult is:

1 : formal religious veneration 2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents 3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents 4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults> 5a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad 5b : the object of such devotion 5c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

So, if you were to go with the current structure of Christianity -- there being these denominations and organized structures -- then yes, Christianity would be considered a "cult." But there are many things that would be considered "cults." Fraternities and sororities would be considered cults. A "cult" typically has a negative connotation, we made it that. A cult does not have to be negative.

I will argue, that Jesus never set out for Christianity to be operated like it is currently. There should be no denominations. There should be no "sacred buildings." There should be no designated "priests" (which does include pastors and other formal hierarchical authorities in the "church"). The "cult" notion would be lesser if this were the case. A "Christian" by definition is "Christ-like." One's life would imitate that of Jesus.

That leads me to part:

2) Yes, all you truly have to do is proclaim Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. But, we know with that proclamation that there are changes. This goes along with being "Christ-like." This is the thing that most "Christians" have a hard time doing. Those changes would be "love God, love others" (just to make it short and sweet). One would strive to be closer to God, just like any other relationship or friendship. You seek to grow closer to your friend. You love your friend. You talk and listen to your friend. Friendships and relationships are two-way streets, not just one-way.


Sorry I was gone...I know everyone missed me in this discussion.

vball10set;1156726 wrote:fify

So God banged a virgin before marriage. Seems like he doesn't follow his own rules.

sleeper;1155016 wrote:He's an omnipotent being who cannot create a rock in which he cannot lift.

He's also "perfect". Yet, he needs worship. Fail.

The Rock question is really not that good of an argument, even most educated atheists will agree on that. First off, The Bible does state things God can't do. Lie or Deny Himself. He can't do those because it is against his nature and against the nature of reality itself. The question itself is a contradiction in reality. Like saying can God create a Square Triangle. Just because you can string words together does not make the impossible possible. Also the Rock in question would have to be of infinite mass to stop a being with infinite power, since material objects cannot be infinite. Also if God is infinite, there cannot be two infinite things thus creating a contradiction and God cannot create contradictions.

It is nothing more than a terrible first year philosophy student type question. It would be akin to asking what the color yellow taste like? And this is not just a believer trying to spin logic my way. Just do a little research and you will see that most people atheist and believer ignore this question because it in no way stands up to logical scrutiny.

All of the facts presented by God have never been proven. You can't just declare something to avoid having to answer a difficult question.

sleeper;1156892 wrote:All of the facts presented by God have never been proven. You can't just declare something to avoid having to answer a difficult question.

Irony at it's finest.

Skyhook79;1156895 wrote:Irony at it's finest.

Yeah, ironic that your beliefs, something you've lived your entire life by, is made up. How does it feel to waste your life believing in something that has pillaged your intellectual and financial integrity?

Enjoy!

sleeper;1156892 wrote:All of the facts presented by God have never been proven. You can't just declare something to avoid having to answer a difficult question.

The Rock question is not tough to answer because the question itself is a logical fallacy. You claim God to be illogical yet ask an illogical question to debate the existence of God.

You are better than that. I know you are.

pmoney25;1156888 wrote:The Rock question is really not that good of an argument, even most educated atheists will agree on that. First off, The Bible does state things God can't do. Lie or Deny Himself. He can't do those because it is against his nature and against the nature of reality itself. The question itself is a contradiction in reality. Like saying can God create a Square Triangle. Just because you can string words together does not make the impossible possible. Also the Rock in question would have to be of infinite mass to stop a being with infinite power, since material objects cannot be infinite. Also if God is infinite, there cannot be two infinite things thus creating a contradiction and God cannot create contradictions.

It is nothing more than a terrible first year philosophy student type question. It would be akin to asking what the color yellow taste like? And this is not just a believer trying to spin logic my way. Just do a little research and you will see that most people atheist and believer ignore this question because it in no way stands up to logical scrutiny.

This is well said but the spirit behind the type of question sleeper asks is valid IMO.

To me it's pretty clear that if we assume a god exists then it's either not omnipotent/omnipresent/all-knowing, or it's malevolent. I can't really see any other scenario that fits the world we live in.

sleeper;1156898 wrote:Yeah, ironic that your beliefs, something you've lived your entire life by, is made up. How does it feel to waste your life believing in something that has pillaged your intellectual and financial integrity?

Enjoy!

I didn't become a baptized believer until age 36, so your point is not valid.

I heard that Sleeper is a christian

pmoney25;1156924 wrote:The Rock question is not tough to answer because the question itself is a logical fallacy. You claim God to be illogical yet ask an illogical question to debate the existence of God.

You are better than that. I know you are.

I can use whatever I want as long as faith is seen as rational. Why engage in rational debate when the other side refuses to acknowledge how fraudulent and illogical their beliefs are?

Skyhook79;1156993 wrote:I didn't become a baptized believer until age 36, so your point is not valid.

Mid-life crises.

sleeper;1157210 wrote:I can use whatever I want as long as faith is seen as rational. Why engage in rational debate when the other side refuses to acknowledge how fraudulent and illogical their beliefs are?

Nice deflection on the question at hand.

pmoney25;1157227 wrote:Nice deflection on the question at hand.

You didn't ask a question. :huh:

Okay, need to refer to the Christian dudes here. The following is a status from my Facebook news feed. The woman who posted it is a lifeling believer who has gone been through two marriages already and working on her third with the dude about whom she's talking. My questions follow.

In the midst of all my turmoil and strife a prince came along. I know I have made so many mistakes and bad choices in my life but this time God chose for me and I thank Him every day.

Thanks guys. I've been looking my whole life for this man. And God brought him to me.

1. Did God really choose this one for her?
2. Did God choose the first two for her (which she thought at the time also)?
3. If this marriage turns out bad, was she wrong about God's having chosen him, or is God just giving her what she "needs" (namely, a third baby daddy)?

I laughed at that Facebook post. Excuse my language, but what a dumb fucking bitch.

sleeper;1157236 wrote:I laughed at that Facebook post. Excuse my language, but what a dumb ****ing bitch.

LOL. Yes. My first thought exactly. No joke.

She's posted some other things about how "things happen for a reason" and "God has a plan". So you know, in trying to cope with a divorce and figure out what went wrong, it is much easier to think somebody else is pulling strings for you versus facing the fact that when you got fat, quit putting out, and started bitching all the time, you changed the marriage dynamic. Incidentally, my buddy (who is 40) also just got re-married to some hot snatch 25 year old. I'm sure he's glad God led him to that one too.

enigmaax;1157239 wrote:LOL. Yes. My first thought exactly. No joke.

She's posted some other things about how "things happen for a reason" and "God has a plan". So you know, in trying to cope with a divorce and figure out what went wrong, it is much easier to think somebody else is pulling strings for you versus facing the fact that when you got fat, quit putting out, and started bitching all the time, you changed the marriage dynamic. Incidentally, my buddy (who is 40) also just got re-married to some hot snatch 25 year old. I'm sure he's glad God led him to that one too.

She's delusional. I almost feel bad for her because she doesn't know any better. Like I've said, you can't fix stupid and nothing takes that cake better than religion.

enigmaax;1157235 wrote:1. Did God really choose this one for her?
2. Did God choose the first two for her (which she thought at the time also)?
3. If this marriage turns out bad, was she wrong about God's having chosen him, or is God just giving her what she "needs" (namely, a third baby daddy)?

I cannot speak for all professing Christians here, but here's my two-cents:

1) I do not believe that everyone has a certain someone out there. I think there are many "significant others" that we can choose from that happens to be "the one." Is it possible for God to choose "this one" for her...I don't doubt it can happen.
2) My guess is the first two were her "many mistakes and bad choices."
3) She is wrong.

I do not like playing the "God-card" in any situation dealing with relationships. You cannot argue it. It's the ultimate trump card. I have meat so many people who have used the "God-card" before. It's stupid. It's arrogant. Even if a person felt that God was telling them not to be with a certain someone, there is absolutely no need to play the "God-card."

I am blessed that I have a couple women of God in my life though. My mother is a true saint -- she goes out of her way to do so many good things for people. She is definitely an inspiration for my wife -- who is a blessing. No doubt about it that we fit together tremendously. Through our first couple years of marriage, we have been able to meet people who have truly inspirational marriages and you can tell they glorify God in all they do. It helps me be a better husband. It helps my wife be a better wife. At some point, we'll have the opportunity to be better parents because of these couples in our lives.

sleeper;1156898 wrote:Yeah, ironic that your beliefs, something you've lived your entire life by, is made up. How does it feel to waste your life believing in something that has pillaged your intellectual and financial integrity?

Enjoy!

Have fun decomposing. I'll be partying my ass off, drinking beer, playing poker, and hanging out with my buds and family.

Footwedge;1157289 wrote:Have fun decomposing. I'll be partying my ass off, drinking beer, playing poker, and hanging out with my buds and family.

No you won't. Unless you have proof, which you don't.

Have a nice day.

I also find it hilarious that all these supposed believers are getting divorced and then getting remarried although that's against god's laws of marriage.

Very hypocritical, especially given the rates for pre-marital sex. Enjoy!

sleeper;1157302 wrote:I also find it hilarious that all these supposed believers are getting divorced and then getting remarried although that's against god's laws of marriage.

Very hypocritical, especially given the rates for pre-marital sex. Enjoy!

There are Biblical reasons for getting a divorce and being able to re-marry. Not all people follow them however.

Skyhook79;1157306 wrote:There are Biblical reasons for getting a divorce and being able to re-marry. Not all people follow them however.

Great. Still hilarious and hypocritical, like the entire faith system.