Con_Alma;1155102 wrote:I don't know very much about it. DO they have abnormal or bizarre practices?

Well they sure as shit don't believe the world was flooded 3000 years ago, nor do they think eating wine and bread at mass is the Body and Blood of Christ(from Costco none the less).

So not as bizarre as Christianity, but they are still batshit insane.

sleeper;1155113 wrote:Well they sure as **** don't believe the world was flooded 3000 years ago, nor do they think eating wine and bread at mass is the Body and Blood of Christ(from Costco none the less).

So not as bizarre as Christianity, but they are still bat**** insane.

To Sociologists, Christianity probably is viewed and defined as a cult then.

Con_Alma;1155112 wrote:I don't suggest it does make it "less weird" for others.

If there are abnormal or bizarre practices it's a cult by definition. If individual people view the practices of Chrisitiany, Scientology, Judaism as bizzare or weird then they probably also see them as a cult.

I didn't intend to imply that you claimed as much.

I was just saying that many people do that and especially in the US get really upset if you question them on the strange things in their belief when they're mocking others.

I Wear Pants;1155120 wrote:I didn't intend to imply that you claimed as much.

I was just saying that many people do that and especially in the US get really upset if you question them on the strange things in their belief when they're mocking others.

No, I didn't think were trying to imply that. I was just responding to it.

I don't doubt people get upset. Heck, people get upset on this forum over similar things. I don't understand what makes it upsetting. It's been my experience that being upset is rarely of benefit. Even being mocked doesn't draw ire from me personally. It's more indicative of the person mocking than the person being mocked in my view.

Con_Alma;1155136 wrote:Even being mocked doesn't draw ire from me personally. It's more indicative of the person mocking than the person being mocked in my view.

I can't determine if we all just got con_alma'd or Mr. Brady'd.

Con_Alma;1155090 wrote:I think that need is ours. We have the need to worship him. There is much written about God not having an ego and how we look at his actions as indications of such.

"We" didn't say, "hey dude, if we don't worship you down here, could you just send us to hell." He gave us that ultimatum, right? Now why would he insist on being worshipped and/or why would he treat people so poorly if they didn't worship him? Whether it is "need" or something else, it is amazingly ego-centric. Not only is it selfish pride, which we're told is bad, but it is a selfish pride that if not fed supposedly has almost incomprehensible consequences.

I'm interested in how or why you can view it as anything else.

So everything that has been, is and will be, came from nothing? Got it.

cruiser_96;1155151 wrote:So everything that has been, is and will be, came from nothing? Got it.

That doesn't make much more sense to me than some invisible guy in the sky who has been here forever created everything.

enigmaax;1155149 wrote:"We" didn't say, "hey dude, if we don't worship you down here, could you just send us to hell." He gave us that ultimatum, right? Now why would he insist on being worshipped and/or why would he treat people so poorly if they didn't worship him? Whether it is "need" or something else, it is amazingly ego-centric. Not only is it selfish pride, which we're told is bad, but it is a selfish pride that if not fed supposedly has almost incomprehensible consequences.

I'm interested in how or why you can view it as anything else.

What was the ultimatum?

When God instructs us to worship it is for oour benefit, not necessarily His.

Worship is a humbling and reverent act. Humility increases our awareness and respect for the divine.
Worship should cause us to reflect on the majesty and graciousness of God and Christ, contrasted to our own unworthiness. God does not have to have our worship, but we must worship Him to please Him. Our singing, praying, studying His word, giving, and communion are designed by God to bring us closer to Him and to cause us to think more like He thinks, thus becoming more like Him.



Our worship not only honors and magnifies God, but it is also for our own edification and strength. Worship helps us develop a God-like and Christ-like character. We become like unto those we admire and worship. When we worship God we tend to value what God values and gradually take on the characteristics and qualities of God, but never to His level. We renew our mind as we study and meditate on God’s word and worship Him.


When we worship God we develop such traits as forgiveness, tenderness, justice, righteousness, purity, kindness, and love. All of this is preparing us for eternal life in heaven with God and Christ.

These are just some of the reasons I think God wants us to worship Him.

FatHobbit;1155153 wrote:That doesn't make much more sense to me than some invisible guy in the sky who has been here forever created everything.

So now what!?

If we say that nothing created something, we are, what - fools!? If we realize this fact, and refuse to agree that nothing created something, are we not forced to conclude that something outside of this given set placed/created us?

cruiser_96;1155159 wrote:So now what!?

If we say that nothing created something, we are, what - fools!? If we realize this fact, and refuse to agree that nothing created something, are we not forced to conclude that something outside of this given set placed/created us?

What created the something that created the something? I am amazed that people are so convinced they know how it all started.

I'm only pointing out what seem to be the two options.

Also, I refuse to deny my existence, and thus, have no other option but investigate and make some kind of choice. I do not believe ignoring the issue is doable.

cruiser_96;1155177 wrote:I'm only pointing out what seem to be the two options.

Also, I refuse to deny my existence, and thus, have no other option but investigate and make some kind of choice. I do not believe ignoring the issue is doable.

I won't deny you the right to make whatever choice you find appropriate.

C_A - If that worship is only for our benefit, why is the ultimate consequence of not worshipping god so dreadful? Why isn't exhibiting all of those traits that you mentioned on your own good enough?

If God were truly gracious, he wouldn't doom one to hell for not reflecting on the majesty and graciousness. Good people don't do things for others because they want attention. God, apparently does.

Then you say, "contrasted to our own unworthiness". Again, classic mindfuck of a control freak. "You suck without me. Bow down or fuckyougotohell." A person...or a God...has to make you realize your own insignificance to make himself feel better is just a terrible person/God.

Most of the rest of what you say is all fine and good. Try to be a nice person is what it basically comes down to. But when we try to do those things and someone else dicks us, we want to feel like there is some justice or some retribution that we can't take for ourselves. God is a nice fall back for that. If we feel like there's something better later on, it is must easier to deal with how shitty today is. Believing there is an afterlife makes dealing with death a little easier. It is all a defense mechanism because we want life to be fair and since we know that it isn't fair here, on earth, in this lifetime, we've gotta create a way to get back what we think we deserve.

cruiser_96;1155151 wrote:So everything that has been, is and will be, came from nothing? Got it.

That would be your view if you're a theist yes.

enigmaax;1155208 wrote:C_A - If that worship is only for our benefit, why is the ultimate consequence of not worshipping god so dreadful? Why isn't exhibiting all of those traits that you mentioned on your own good enough?

If God were truly gracious, he wouldn't doom one to hell for not reflecting on the majesty and graciousness. Good people don't do things for others because they want attention. God, apparently does.

Then you say, "contrasted to our own unworthiness". Again, classic mind**** of a control freak. "You suck without me. Bow down or ****yougotohell." A person...or a God...has to make you realize your own insignificance to make himself feel better is just a terrible person/God.

Most of the rest of what you say is all fine and good. Try to be a nice person is what it basically comes down to. But when we try to do those things and someone else ****s us, we want to feel like there is some justice or some retribution that we can't take for ourselves. God is a nice fall back for that. If we feel like there's something better later on, it is must easier to deal with how ****ty today is. Believing there is an afterlife makes dealing with death a little easier. It is all a defense mechanism because we want life to be fair and since we know that it isn't fair here, on earth, in this lifetime, we've gotta create a way to get back what we think we deserve.

What is the consequence of not worshiping?

The only thing that keeps you from eternal life with the Father is not accepting Christ as the Messiah. Not worshiping isn't what determines one's eternal life as heaven or hell.

Con_Alma;1155920 wrote:What is the consequence of not worshiping?

The only thing that keeps you from eternal life with the Father is not accepting Christ as the Messiah. Not worshiping isn't what determines one's eternal life as heaven or hell.

Oh, so you just have to say, "you da man". Cool God.

A couple things I want to be sure of:
Is Christ the guy's last name?
Since it is our choice to accept him or not accept him, is it truly up to us to earn our way into heaven?

Eph. 2: 8,9... You won't be working your way anytime soon.

if your god does love you, i hope you make him wear a condom.

enigmaax;1155944 wrote:Oh, so you just have to say, "you da man". Cool God.

A couple things I want to be sure of:
Is Christ the guy's last name?
Since it is our choice to accept him or not accept him, is it truly up to us to earn our way into heaven?

Yes, all you have to do is accept him...but you must tuly accept him. There are usually outwards signs of such an acceptance.

Yes it's truly up to us.

Christ is a title meaning Messiah. Last names were not common in biblical times. He was probably known as Jesus son of Joseph.

Con_Alma;1156432 wrote:Yes, all you have to do is accept him...but you must tuly accept him. There are usually outwards signs of such an acceptance.

Yes it's truly up to us.

Christ is a title meaning Messiah. Last names were not common in biblical times. He was probably known as Jesus son of Joseph.

This sounds a lot like worship. The whole "you don't have to worship god/Jesus just accept him" thing seems to have came up (or if I'm wrong about the genesis of it being relatively recent it's certainly gotten more popular of late) recently perhaps as a way to avoid acknowledging that the god of the Bible is a raving ego-maniacal dick.

Hint...it's because Joseph was his dad.

Repentence was what I was refering to.

I don't know of it's "popularity" timeframe but scriptural references are clear that ther is only on way and it's not through physical acts.

There were tribes during Biblical times and folks knew each other through those tribes and family members. Jesus Son of Joseph.

Jesus is the son of Joseph and God.

Sounds made up.

sleeper;1156713 wrote:Jesus is the adopted son of Joseph and the Son of God.

Enjoy.

fify