Raw Dawgin' it;1151400 wrote:lol why because the bible says so? You can't quote a book as truth not everyone believe in.

Raw Dawgin' it;1151403 wrote:lol lets see how we can twist the definition of words to make our argument seem less ridiculous than it already is

Raw Dawgin' it;1151409 wrote:God has a plan for you? he controls your life. He influences your decisions because of his plan - YOUR life is already written out for you and nothing you do is your own free will

Raw Dawgin' it;1151420 wrote:not choosing for yourself - nice contradiction. If you're serving and following, you're not a leading making your own choices.

Raw Dawgin' it;1151434 wrote:Derrp - except you follow, serve, and have a plan set out for you - I don't because i have free will to do what i want.

And this is your idea of 'bringing something to the table'? smh

Raw Dawgin' it;1151434 wrote:Derrp - except you follow, serve, and have a plan set out for you - I don't because i have free will to do what i want.

What part of "choose to follow" are you not grasping?

fish82;1151470 wrote:What part of "choose to follow" are you not grasping?

you made the choice to believe - that was the last choice you ever had since you follow, serve, and live out your set plan. What are you not grasping?

fish82;1151470 wrote:What part of "choose to follow" are you not grasping?

A battered wife "chooses" to do as her husband tells her. Is she in control of her own life? If a person "chooses" to do whatever someone pointing a gun at him tells him to do, is he in control?

If you make choices based on a fear of consequences if you don't make a certain choice, you are being controlled. But there shouldn't be shame in being controlled by your religion/God/savior, right?

enigmaax;1151477 wrote:A battered wife "chooses" to do as her husband tells her. Is she in control of her own life? If a person "chooses" to do whatever someone pointing a gun at him tells him to do, is he in control?

If you make choices based on a fear of consequences if you don't make a certain choice, you are being controlled. But there shouldn't be shame in being controlled by your religion/God/savior, right?

LOL...I'll be surprised if I see two shittier analogies this week. Congrats...I don't impress easily.

OSH;1151464 wrote:Oh really?

So that means all the atheistic and agnostic arguments have nothing to stand on. Dawkins' words mean nothing. Scientists have no authority either. Not everyone believes in them, so there is no credibility.

Thanks for clearing that up! :thumbup:

I don't trust things based on theories and mythology - like the bible for example. I don't believe everything from science is fact either.

Personally i believe religion started and the theory of god started because people needed a reason to explain things they couldn't explain or understand. Personally, i fee like religion should have been phased out by people as they evolved. Religion seems like a cop out to me to explain the unexplained instead of looking for honest answers.

When athletes or people thank god for something good happening it makes me laugh - as if god cares about your sports team. When a fireman saves you from a fire, god didn't lead him to you, if anything he should not have put you in danger to begin with. He was doing his job. Luck and coincidence can't always be explained, so people say god did it so they have answer.

enigmaax;1151477 wrote:A battered wife "chooses" to do as her husband tells her. Is she in control of her own life? If a person "chooses" to do whatever someone pointing a gun at him tells him to do, is he in control?

If you make choices based on a fear of consequences if you don't make a certain choice, you are being controlled. But there shouldn't be shame in being controlled by your religion/God/savior, right?

Who said anything about shame? Why is someone you love so much (god) putting you in such danger?

She can choose to leave the relationship - unless she believes in god then it's his plan for her to be abused and stay and he "choice" isn't hers, it's her plan. She doesnt choose to stay or leave, it's already decided.

fish82;1151481 wrote:LOL...I'll be surprised if I see two ****tier analogies this week. Congrats...I don't impress easily.

Cool, I'd love to hear the difference.

enigmaax;1151496 wrote:Cool, I'd love to hear the difference.

He can't make an analogy about choice because it would contradict his beliefs.

enigmaax;1151477 wrote:A battered wife "chooses" to do as her husband tells her. Is she in control of her own life? If a person "chooses" to do whatever someone pointing a gun at him tells him to do, is he in control?

If you make choices based on a fear of consequences if you don't make a certain choice, you are being controlled. But there shouldn't be shame in being controlled by your religion/God/savior, right?

There shouldn't be any fear of consequences in believing in God.

We don't even know exactly what will happen if we don't follow God. There are theories. There are ideas. But, right now, we don't know what it looks like. But, overriding all of that, is that believing in God is BETTER than the alternative. We do what is BEST for us.

Raw Dawgin' it;1151487 wrote:I don't trust things based on theories and mythology - like the bible for example. I don't believe everything from science is fact either.

Personally i believe religion started and the theory of god started because people needed a reason to explain things they couldn't explain or understand. Personally, i fee like religion should have been phased out by people as they evolved. Religion seems like a cop out to me to explain the unexplained instead of looking for honest answers.

When athletes or people thank god for something good happening it makes me laugh - as if god cares about your sports team. When a fireman saves you from a fire, god didn't lead him to you, if anything he should not have put you in danger to begin with. He was doing his job. Luck and coincidence can't always be explained, so people say god did it so they have answer.

Religion phased out? Why? Just because people seek a higher power? There are so many unexplained occurrences, we'll never be able to figure them out...and neither will science. Should that mean that science is phased out? People believe there is MORE to life than just living and breathing. That makes sense to me. Especially the more I live. I cannot fathom this complex life just "existing" for the sake of "existing." Why us? How are we the "lucky" ones?

Moreover, it is not God's job to "protect everyone." Why is it? If He did...then we would be nothing more than pawns that God moves around to play games with. God doesn't care about a team, you are right, He cares about every individual using his/her talents that were given. I have no problem with the "why do bad things happen to good people" or "why do good things happen to bad people." I don't know why that is such a hang up with some people. Things happen. We'll never know the answers to them. No matter what anyone tries to do...we won't be able to figure things out. We won't know EVERYTHING.

If religion was created to explain the unexplained...they did a VERY good job of putting a book together from thousands of years that had thousands of prophecies fulfilled. Yes, it was written by men, but it was inspired by God. These men had no idea that these writings would last as long as they did and be as popular as they are. There's no other writing that is as criticized as the Bible. There is no other writing that has lasted through what the Bible has. There has to be something more to it.

OSH - your views seem to be very different than the others. "then we would be nothing more than pawns that God moves around to play games with" this is basically what fish and skyhook are saying. They follow and serve and have a plan set out for them - so do my pawns when i play chess.

"I cannot fathom this complex life just "existing" for the sake of "existing." Why us? How are we the "lucky" ones?" - This is what i mean by turning to a higher power for things that can't be explained. There's no way to prove it, but people need to know why they're here and i think turning to "god" makes them feel better about their purpose in life. To me it's just a security blanket to explain things that may have no answer yet.

Do you think aliens exist? By aliens i mean intelligent life, not a bacteria under a rock.

enigmaax;1151496 wrote:Cool, I'd love to hear the difference.

1. Battered wives walk out the door every day. People leave churches every day. People choose to attend church, the wife chooses to stay. To insinuate that she's not in control of her life is just stupid.

B. If you can point me to the verse where anyone takes an immediate bullet to the face for not "doing what they're told," I'll be grateful. I'll even wait around while you find it.

sleeper;1151418 wrote:This thread is exhibit A why I don't engage in rational discussion with believers. People get pissed at me for degrading religion, but that's what I've found more effective.

You can't fix stupid, but you can call them frauds, and you can take that to the bank.

I am not mad that you degrade religion, I feel sorry for you, for you really add nothing to the discussion. You have read the cliff notes of a few Dawkins books and portray yourself as intelligent. Well most people can see through that.

Raw Dawgin' it;1151515 wrote:OSH - your views seem to be very different than the others. "then we would be nothing more than pawns that God moves around to play games with" this is basically what fish and skyhook are saying. They follow and serve and have a plan set out for them - so do my pawns when i play chess.

I'm saying no such thing. Please quote me where I ever said I "follow and serve and have a plan set out for me." This illustrates one of my points...you people are just as bad as the ultra religious that you complain about ad nauseum. Anyone dares disagree with your views, and you pigeonhole them into one of your ignorant preconceived slots.

fish82;1151521 wrote:I'm saying no such thing. Please quote me where I ever said I "follow and serve and have a plan set out for me." This illustrates one of my points...you people are just as bad as the ultra religious that you complain about ad nauseum. Anyone dares disagree with your views, and you pigeonhole them into one of your ignorant preconceived slots.

LOL - two way street buddy.

fish82;1151521 wrote:I'm saying no such thing. Please quote me where I ever said I "follow and serve and have a plan set out for me." This illustrates one of my points...you people are just as bad as the ultra religious that you complain about ad nauseum. Anyone dares disagree with your views, and you pigeonhole them into one of your ignorant preconceived slots.

fish82;1151470 wrote:What part of "choose to follow" are you not grasping?

Following means you don't make your own decisions, you follow ones already made - you chose to follow god, jesus, whoever and they're leading you, which means you don't choose anything you do, because you're a follower.

Raw Dawgin' it;1151527 wrote:LOL - two way street buddy.

Yeah...that's kinda what I just said. :rolleyes:

Skyhook79;1151422 wrote:http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=the+lost+ship+of+noah&tag=googhydr-20&index=stripbooks&hvadid=7014343037&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=83239093895311546&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_6vr7wt7y0_b

Like I said no other book. Did you look at the comments? It even called the ship "mythical" and that its never been found.

Raw Dawgin' it;1151530 wrote:Following means you don't make your own decisions, you follow ones already made - you chose to follow god, jesus, whoever and they're leading you, which means you don't choose anything you do, because you're a follower.

I don't choose anything I do? Please tell me you aren't serious.

fish82;1151425 wrote:Are there other subjects that you don't know shit about that you like to pontificate endlessly on, or is this the only one? :rolleyes:

I don't need to know jack about physics to know that gravity is real. I don't need to know jack about religion to know its a fraud.

Enjoy!

fish82;1151531 wrote:Yeah...that's kinda what I just said. :rolleyes:

derrr it means you do the same thing, hence why i bolded and laughed at your comment. Thanks for admitting you're completely closed minded to what anyone with views that aren't religious think

fish82;1151535 wrote:I don't choose anything I do? Please tell me you aren't serious.

god made the choice for you because you choose to follow him. maybe if you didn't follow someone with a set plan you could have free will

OSH;1151464 wrote:Oh really?

So that means all the atheistic and agnostic arguments have nothing to stand on. Dawkins' words mean nothing. Scientists have no authority either. Not everyone believes in them, so there is no credibility.

Thanks for clearing that up! :thumbup:

Exhibit A of why you can't fix stupid. They don't play by the same rules and are more concerned with doing whatever it takes, sans logic, to stay in their delusional ways.

Pretty embarrassing.

OSH;1151508 wrote:There shouldn't be any fear of consequences in believing in God.

...

I agree completely. I wouldn't decide based on what if I don't. I decided based on my belief that He is the Messiah and because He is I want to be in his presence forever.

Con_Alma;1151541 wrote:I agree completely. I wouldn't decide based on what if I don't. I decided based on my belief that He is the Messiah and because He is I want to be in his presence forever.

then go die and live with him for eternity.