I wouldn't necessarily disagree that it's illogical. But being illogical doesn't mean its a bad thing. Billions of people have faith in something higher than themselves and they feel stronger for it on an individual level and on a community level. Our subconscious has a survival instinct to keep us alive but if there's a toddler in the street who's not even your kid, most people will run out into the street to save them. That's pretty illogical too, unless your next thread is going to be about how we should only look out for ourselves and fuck everyone else.

LJ;1057558 wrote:Why do I have to answer something I have already said many posts back?

Must have missed it, could you repost?

The Equalizer;1057559 wrote:I wouldn't necessarily disagree that it's illogical. But being illogical doesn't mean its a bad thing. Billions of people have faith in something higher than themselves and they feel stronger for it on an individual level and on a community level. Our subconscious has a survival instinct to keep us alive but if there's a toddler in the street who's not even your kid, most people will run out into the street to save them. That's pretty illogical too, unless your next thread is going to be about how we should only look out for ourselves and **** everyone else.

Depending on the situation, running out onto a busy street to potentially save a child's life is illogical. Why risk your life, the childs life, and the life of the people in cars just to save 1 person? There are too many variables to define if a situation is illogical or not in that case.

sleeper;1057560 wrote:Must have missed it, could you repost?

I said I have no doubt that there are people that lie about it. Never claimed otherwise.

LJ;1057554 wrote:BTW Sleeper, telling you that you have failed, when you have, infact, failed, is not trolling. Quit being a fucking crybaby and clogging up our mod forum with your stupid reported posts.

Ah, it's giving me the chance to use those "report post" threads to post pictures of Friday the 13th movie kills to imply the fate I wish frivolous post reporters would face.

LJ;1057563 wrote:I said I have no doubt that there are people that lie about it. Never claimed otherwise.

So you agree with me. Thanks.

facepalm

#sleeperwins

It took me 306 posts this time. I'll have to do better next time.

The Equalizer;1057559 wrote:I wouldn't necessarily disagree that it's illogical. But being illogical doesn't mean its a bad thing. Billions of people have faith in something higher than themselves and they feel stronger for it on an individual level and on a community level. Our subconscious has a survival instinct to keep us alive but if there's a toddler in the street who's not even your kid, most people will run out into the street to save them. That's pretty illogical too, unless your next thread is going to be about how we should only look out for ourselves and fuck everyone else.

This idea that without religion everyone will be assholes who will only look out for themselves is simply untrue.

And people who post things like that conveniently leave out all the bad shit that comes from people having strong faith and beliefs like all the wars and persecution that goes on because of those beliefs.

sleeper;1057572 wrote:#sleeperwins

It took me 306 posts this time. I'll have to do better next time.

lol what a cop out.

I Wear Pants;1057573 wrote:This idea that without religion everyone will be assholes who will only look out for themselves is simply untrue.

Have you met sleeper?

Raw Dawgin' it;1057574 wrote:lol what a cop out.

So true

#DelusionalSleeper

Raw Dawgin' it;1057575 wrote:Have you met sleeper?

I didn't say that everyone who isn't religious isn't an asshole nor that everyone that is religious is an asshole.

Just that simply because one is an atheist doesn't mean you're going to go plundering and murdering. Belief in god != doing the right thing. No belief in god != doing the wrong thing. Both inverses are true as well.

And it seems like the people who hate religion and look down their noses at anyone who lives their lives according to their faith never want to see it for anything good and only those bad things. I'm catholic but I never started a crusade. I'm also white and I never owned a slave. I'm not apologizing for other members of the groups I belong to for the decisions they've made.

I Wear Pants;1057581 wrote:I didn't say that everyone who isn't religious isn't an asshole nor that everyone that is religious is an asshole.

Just that simply because one is an atheist doesn't mean you're going to go plundering and murdering. Belief in god != doing the right thing. No belief in god != doing the wrong thing. Both inverses are true as well.

I was just making a joke...

The Equalizer;1057587 wrote:And it seems like the people who hate religion and look down their noses at anyone who lives their lives according to their faith never want to see it for anything good and only those bad things. I'm catholic but I never started a crusade. I'm also white and I never owned a slave. I'm not apologizing for other members of the groups I belong to for the decisions they've made.

you don't know what you're missing

reps

sleeper;1057500 wrote:Atheism = a lack of belief. It's different. I lack belief.

Atheism:

disbelief in the existence of God or gods.

Honestly, sleeper... based on your logic, if I am raise NOT to believe, then I should only grow up to believe. Because if I am raised TO believe, and I still believe, it is not my own beliefs.

sleeper;1057396 wrote:Sorry, but when you make a claim you are expected to be able to provide evidence to prove your claim. It cannot work the other way around. Otherwise, I could simply make any statement I want and if you cannot disprove it, then it must be true! This is terrible logic.

The bolded print is 100% true.

Which is why, when I asked sleeper to provide support to back up his claim on another thread that racism would begin to end when minorities stop receiving handouts and special treatment, he clammed up like a new butthole in prison; never to be heard from again.

I usually try to refrain from religious discussions because there is so much "lost in translation" when communicating over a forum, chat, etc. online.

But, I am a believer. I have been since I was in 8th grade. I made the decision on my own. I continued following, learning, studying, questioning, etc. on my own. I have an undergrad in Bible/Theology. Working in the "church" was going to be my future. Things have changed with the profession, but my faith is still a large part of who I am and where I am today.

There are a lot of things that "religion" doesn't explain. But there are a lot of things that science doesn't explain. Which is right? They can both exist together, no doubt about it.

I don't pray much. I wish I had more of a prayer life. I used to do a lot of reading, which I'll get back into it -- I go through reading phases. I really enjoy the relationships that life on earth has brought. It's amazing to meet people, laugh with them, cry with them, hug them, and chat with them. There's not much better.

There is a lot wrong with organized religion. But there are also a lot of positive things about it also. Believers made more positive moves than any other group of like-minded people. There have been a lot of negatives from people who claim to believe, but their like-mindedness is few and far between -- especially when you compare that to Biblical practices. There are a lot of great people who are believers. There are a lot of great people who are not believers. There are a lot of crappy people who claim a belief. There are a lot of crappy people who have no beliefs in a higher power (or may claim to be an atheist).

One thing that just amazes me is the vastness of the country, world, and galaxy we live in. It's massive. To believe that we are the top of the "logic" chain or believe that we know everything and can prove everything, just won't happen. There is so much that has happened, is happening, and will happen that will be unable to be "proven." To me, there's a lot of it that can't just happen "by chance." There has to be something MORE than what we know. I don't try to prove why bad things happen to good people. I don't try to prove why good things happen to bad people. I don't try to figure out why bad things happen to bad people.

I'll live my life. I'll treat people right. I'll have faith in Jesus. I'll continue trying to live my life accordingly. If anyone has a problem with that, okay. That's fine, it won't change my beliefs. I'll continue growing in the relationships that I have made here on earth and will continue developing relationships throughout my time here. I see the beauty of God's creation in people and those relationships. Sometimes I just like to sit back and watch people interact...it's refreshing.

Steel Valley Football;1057240 wrote:The existence of a thousand patients, or even a million patients who die, for every one who doesn't is irrelevant. The existence of the former does not preclude the existence of the latter.

The question was "why do (people) pray?" and not "does praying heal the sick?"

People pray because they think it helps. If they think it helps, it helps. Period. As a doctor, or even as someone claiming to be a doctor, you should already know that.

Stick with answering the question at hand.

Never claimed to be a doctor, but hey you haven't answered anything else that was asked so keep reaching I suppose. People MAY think it helps, but the reality it is that it doesn't. If it did, everyone who prayed and wanted to get better would, right? That's what you're suggesting. If you ever get cancer, sit at home and pray and see if you end up magically better.

friendfromlowry;1057778 wrote:Never claimed to be a doctor, but hey you haven't answered anything else that was asked so keep reaching I suppose. People MAY think it helps, but the reality it is that it doesn't. If it did, everyone who prayed and wanted to get better would, right? That's what you're suggesting. If you ever get cancer, sit at home and pray and see if you end up magically better.

Parents are being charged criminally when they choose to pray for the health of their child rather than seek medical attention. This usually only happens with Christian Science believers, but the judicial system (and the jury) tend to agree that prayer is not sufficient medical attention... wonder why?

friendfromlowry;1057778 wrote:Never claimed to be a doctor, but hey you haven't answered anything else that was asked so keep reaching I suppose. People MAY think it helps, but the reality it is that it doesn't. If it did, everyone who prayed and wanted to get better would, right? That's what you're suggesting. If you ever get cancer, sit at home and pray and see if you end up magically better.

I will suggest that you lack basic reading comprehension skills.

Steel Valley Football;1057803 wrote:I will suggest that you lack basic reading comprehension skills.

I'll suggest you're an idiot but I already knew that anyways. Have fun.