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sportchampps

Senior Member

7,361 posts
Feb 8, 2012 11:48 PM
I just don't think a push kick should be considered a strike unless it's thrown to do damage. Condit threw a lot of push kicks just to get out of reach that did 0 damage. Hell I could have taken most of the push kicks conduit threw. Without those counting as strikes the fight is much closer. A jab does damage using my leg to push someone back does nothing but push them back.
Feb 8, 2012 6:48pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

Senior Member

9,511 posts
Feb 9, 2012 12:02 AM
Fab1b;1080183 wrote:Wouldn't be surprised there as it has happened before, or was that Nate, heck both?
Nick failed a test before the Gomi fight, which caused his win to be turned to a no contest.
Feb 8, 2012 7:02pm
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Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 9, 2012 12:05 AM
^gotcha thought Nick did before
Feb 8, 2012 7:05pm
Enforcer's avatar

Enforcer

Senior Member

2,140 posts
Feb 9, 2012 1:18 AM
I say just let them all fight till they either TKO, KO, Tapout, their Opponent and Take the judges out completely!! LOL
Feb 8, 2012 8:18pm
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robj55

Senior Member

9,511 posts
Feb 9, 2012 2:33 AM
Feb 8, 2012 9:33pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 9, 2012 2:51 AM
sportchampps;1080184 wrote:I just don't think a push kick should be considered a strike unless it's thrown to do damage. Condit threw a lot of push kicks just to get out of reach that did 0 damage. Hell I could have taken most of the push kicks conduit threw. Without those counting as strikes the fight is much closer. A jab does damage using my leg to push someone back does nothing but push them back.
Actually when compustrike counts "significant strikes" it does not typically count those types of push strikes. It goes though a whole "power" progression on how it counts strikes.

I can give Diaz 2 rounds and the first round was REALLY close, that is the round where it could have gone either way to be honest.

And to really call those close sub attempts in the 5th is off base. They weren't ever close. I could throw haymaker arm bars against a BJJ expert that doesn't mean I was close to a submission. At no point when Nick had back mount was he even remotely close to a submission. I did give him that round though for the superior position.
Feb 8, 2012 9:51pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 9, 2012 2:53 AM
Enforcer;1080253 wrote:I say just let them all fight till they either TKO, KO, Tapout, their Opponent and Take the judges out completely!! LOL
1. UFC original rules had just that, and there was no rounds, a single untimed fight. The problem was some of the ground battles got really boring. 1 fight between Gracie and Shamrock lasted over 30 minutes straight, all on the ground.

2. The AC's, which sanction the sport would NEVER allow this to happen.
Feb 8, 2012 9:53pm
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robj55

Senior Member

9,511 posts
Feb 9, 2012 2:54 AM
jmog;1080411 wrote:Actually when compustrike counts "significant strikes" it does not typically count those types of push strikes. It goes though a whole "power" progression on how it counts strikes.

I can give Diaz 2 rounds and the first round was REALLY close, that is the round where it could have gone either way to be honest.

And to really call those close sub attempts in the 5th is off base. They weren't ever close. I could throw haymaker arm bars against a BJJ expert that doesn't mean I was close to a submission. At no point when Nick had back mount was he even remotely close to a submission. I did give him that round though for the superior position.
So you gave Carlos the first because he landed 2 more strikes, even though Nick controlled the pace and was the aggressor?
Feb 8, 2012 9:54pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Feb 9, 2012 3:23 AM
robj55;1080419 wrote:So you gave Carlos the first because he landed 2 more strikes, even though Nick controlled the pace and was the aggressor?
I gave Carlos the first because I thought he controlled where the fight was happening. Walking forward does not = control.

Diaz got rounds 2 and 5 on my card.
Feb 8, 2012 10:23pm
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robj55

Senior Member

9,511 posts
Feb 9, 2012 4:32 AM
I Wear Pants;1080479 wrote:I gave Carlos the first because I thought he controlled where the fight was happening. Walking forward does not = control.

Diaz got rounds 2 and 5 on my card.
How does walking backwards show octagon control and aggression? It doesn't. That is how Machida lost to Rampage.
Feb 8, 2012 11:32pm
End of Line's avatar

End of Line

It's Clobberin Time!

6,867 posts
Feb 9, 2012 5:02 AM
Fab, the Werdum/Nelson fight really isn't a good comparison of the Diaz/Condit fight.
Feb 9, 2012 12:02am
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Feb 9, 2012 5:16 AM
robj55;1080590 wrote:How does walking backwards show octagon control and aggression? It doesn't. That is how Machida lost to Rampage.
Because Condit did far more than walk backwards. He engaged in the center of the octagon, when he began to lose some of those exchanges he backed away like an intelligent fighter. Diaz being the aggressive fighter he is presses forward. Condit circles back to the center of the ring when he gets pressed up against the cage (many a time landing a nice shot on the way out) so he can re-engage in the center of the ring.

Very different from running or merely waling backwards. He controlled where the fight went. When it was in the center and he was getting the better of the exchange he stayed there. When it was in the center and it wasn't he backed and when against the cage he circled to the center. Condit controlled where that fight was fought for most of the fight, not Diaz.
Feb 9, 2012 12:16am
S

sportchampps

Senior Member

7,361 posts
Feb 9, 2012 7:41 AM
All I can say at this point is Greg Jackson is ruining mma. All his fighters want to do is outpoint their opponent and not actually engage in a fight. His fighters don't go for finishes bc their to risky. It's gonna cost mma and the UFC fans. I don't wanna pay 55 bucks to see someone run away or lay n pray. I wanna two guys showcase their skills not who can come up with a better game plan.
Feb 9, 2012 2:41am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 9, 2012 12:39 PM
robj55;1080419 wrote:So you gave Carlos the first because he landed 2 more strikes, even though Nick controlled the pace and was the aggressor?
1. All fight long, including the 1st, Condit's strikes had much more power (besides the few push kicks).
2. Again, walking forward does NOT equal octagon control (agression is not part of the judges scoring by rule). Condit circled and used great footwork the whole fight and controlled where the fight happened except for the last minute of the last round when Diaz got the TD. I would say yes, that's pretty good Octagon Control, when you decide where the fight happens (aka out in the open and not against the cage).
Feb 9, 2012 7:39am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 9, 2012 12:40 PM
The_Crosby_Show;1080623 wrote:Fab, the Werdum/Nelson fight really isn't a good comparison of the Diaz/Condit fight.
Look at Diaz's face after the fight vs Condit's. While it wasn't as bad as Werdum/Nelson, it was actually similar. One guy pushing forward, the other circling and using good striking to beat up the guy pushing forward.
Feb 9, 2012 7:40am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 9, 2012 12:42 PM
sportchampps;1080706 wrote:All I can say at this point is Greg Jackson is ruining mma. All his fighters want to do is outpoint their opponent and not actually engage in a fight. His fighters don't go for finishes bc their to risky. It's gonna cost mma and the UFC fans. I don't wanna pay 55 bucks to see someone run away or lay n pray. I wanna two guys showcase their skills not who can come up with a better game plan.
I agree at times about Jackson, but you can't throw that many flying knees, spinning backfists, power head kicks, etc and be "point fighting". Condit did NOT point fight in that fight. I'm a huge GSP fan and I can take the point fighting argument about him, but not the way Condit fought last weekend.
Feb 9, 2012 7:42am
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Raw Dawgin' it

Just Ain't Care

11,466 posts
Feb 9, 2012 1:08 PM
Fab1b;1080135 wrote:Just remember Roy Nelson was moving forward the whole time against Werdum!
was anyone split on that decision? was there controversy over it? weak fucking argument lol
Feb 9, 2012 8:08am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 9, 2012 1:39 PM
Raw Dawgin' it;1080765 wrote:was anyone split on that decision? was there controversy over it? weak ****ing argument lol
The judges weren't split over Condit/Diaz either...

Condit beat the crap out of Diaz, not as bad as Werdum did to Nelson, but the fight was VERY similar. Nelson walking forward the whole time and Werdum beating him up bad.

Diaz walked forward the whole time and Condit beat him up.
Feb 9, 2012 8:39am
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Raw Dawgin' it

Just Ain't Care

11,466 posts
Feb 9, 2012 1:47 PM
jmog;1080787 wrote:The judges weren't split over Condit/Diaz either...

Condit beat the crap out of Diaz, not as bad as Werdum did to Nelson, but the fight was VERY similar. Nelson walking forward the whole time and Werdum beating him up bad.

Diaz walked forward the whole time and Condit beat him up.
Except you have a ton of people who think diaz won the fight!!! what don't you get dude? What is the point of rehashing this over and over? A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK DIAZ WON that is why they are trying to make a rematch. A lot of people thought Rua beat Machida the first time, that is why there is a rematch.

It obviously wasn't a close decision in your eyes, i get it, you think Condit beat him up yada yada yada, but move on! Clearly not everyone shares your opinion or a rematch wouldn't even be talked about. You're not going to change peoples minds who thought Diaz won. What i thought is different than what you thought, you're not going to change my mind, move on from this.
Feb 9, 2012 8:47am
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Scarlet_Buckeye

Senior Member

5,264 posts
Feb 9, 2012 4:35 PM
I Wear Pants;1079659 wrote:Except that decision was actually a mistake. Rua won the first fight.

Diaz didn't.
Bingo!
Feb 9, 2012 11:35am
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Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 9, 2012 4:39 PM
Raw Dawgin' it;1080765 wrote:was anyone split on that decision? was there controversy over it? weak fucking argument lol
it isn't weak, I am showing that ring control is just a small part of winning the fight, if you are getting outstruck even coming forward and controling the cage how are you winning the fight especially if there is hardly any damage from your ring control?

What I am saying with Nelson is, did he win ring control in the judges opinion, I'd hope so but he didn't win any other criteria!
Feb 9, 2012 11:39am
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Raw Dawgin' it

Just Ain't Care

11,466 posts
Feb 9, 2012 4:42 PM
Fab1b;1081002 wrote:it isn't weak, I am showing that ring control is just a small part of winning the fight, if you are getting outstruck even coming forward and controling the cage how are you winning the fight especially if there is hardly any damage from your ring control?

What I am saying with Nelson is, did he win ring control in the judges opinion, I'd hope so but he didn't win any other criteria!
you completely missed my point. well done.
Feb 9, 2012 11:42am
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Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 9, 2012 4:43 PM
Your point of just replying to my response as weak?
Feb 9, 2012 11:43am
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Raw Dawgin' it

Just Ain't Care

11,466 posts
Feb 9, 2012 4:50 PM
Fab1b;1081007 wrote:Your point of just replying to my response as weak?
my point that the decision has controversy. I don't give a shit how people scored it. I compared it to the rua/machida decision, the DECISION BEING CONTROVERSIAL, NOT COMPARING THE ACTUAL FIGHT. People are split on this fight which is why i don't mind there being a rematch. I get people saying it shouldn't be controversial cause ring control is only part of scoring and you comparing it to the the nelson fight, i get that. But to say it's not similar to the rua/machida decision because you didn't agree with that decision is no different than people saying they didn't agree with this one. Seriously, take away what happened in the fights and you have two decisions where people are on both sides of it and want a rematch.

edit: I watched the fight live i know what happened. I scored it 1,2,5 for Diaz. At the end though i thought Condit was going to get the nod because of what Rogan was saying. IMO the 1st round could have gone either way.
Feb 9, 2012 11:50am
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Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 9, 2012 4:55 PM
The problem is I don't see the controversy with Diaz/Condit! The media is feeding the controversy I don't think the fans nor either fighter is, even though Diaz said what he said directly after the fight Cesar and his camp knows they lost that fight! Diaz is a jackass, though I respect him the cage! To compare to Rua/Machida to me isn't valid either as these two fights were not as close, or one sided as the other. Rua was robbed, Diaz was not!
Feb 9, 2012 11:55am