I'd be down. I like option #2.

Jmar25;1195729 wrote:Ya. I directed that more at the statement that kids weren't coming out because of Dennis. I'm sure he works them hard there too. I would hope he is at the least. Kids want to be front runners or not play at all. Kids don't understand that success isn't instant like lots of other things are becoming. I think it is more of a mindset at schools like Rittman than anything else. I think we know why coach B got his knife sharpened up and headed back to Smithville... I bet you he saw the culture of that place and ran.

Don't be so sure the system works THAT hard...I watched a mid week practice last year and was amazed. Helmets and shoulder pads on a Tuesday night....approx week 3-4? IMO it was a spoof of a practice.

The former coaches intention all along was returning to smithville. Who didn't see that coming....minus the knife.

madman11;1195741 wrote:Honestly though, I have no respect for Coach B. He told every kid at Rittman he was there for the long haul and didn't care about Smithville. Don't get me wrong he is a good motivator and good defensive coach but I can't respect anyone who tells everyone he's there for the long haul only to skip out. I recall him holding a roster while talking to the seniors after his last season and asking "why would I come back?".

You expected him to say..."Im here for a year or two...then Im out..."

madman11;1195769 wrote:And I don't blame the Baumans for leaving one bit. Its a shame when you have great talents and they no longer want to be around because the coach wants to showcase his kid. Best of luck to the Baumans

I demand an investigation and bed checks....this needs to be legitimate.

Red Rum;1195835 wrote:As you all know....we had no pool last year.
I'm thinking about running one this season. I'm playing with several ideas....

1. WCAL only pool (straight up....10wks, 52 total games)
2. WCAL only pool (handicapped after week 3.....10wks, 52 total games)
3. WCAL+ pool (WCAL teams + Tri, Orr & Woo) (straight up.......10wks, 88 total games)

Winner gets bragging rights & all other prognosticators must rep him at the conclusion.
contest ends after week 10...no playoffs

First of all....Is anyone interested?

second......which option do you like best?

third....any other ideas?

Im game....you pick the format, as long as it goes against what Otrap wants

O-Trap;1196097 wrote:I'd be down. I like option #2.

You need a handicap? Coolyou can take me out for beers. lol

Im in for option 3. But if you choose another Im in for that too.

1_beast;1196128 wrote:You need a handicap?

Nah. You do.

Red Rum;1195835 wrote:As you all know....we had no pool last year.
I'm thinking about running one this season. I'm playing with several ideas....

1. WCAL only pool (straight up....10wks, 52 total games)
2. WCAL only pool (handicapped after week 3.....10wks, 52 total games)
3. WCAL+ pool (WCAL teams + Tri, Orr & Woo) (straight up.......10wks, 88 total games)

I think you should run 4 different pools. All three of your options plus a combination of 2 and 3. It's not like you have anything else to do. I'm in for all 4.

Can anybody play the pool? Anybody outside the WCL posters? What about non legit serious business posters? Maybe we should vote on that

I'm close to the Baumans and they have sold their house in Rittman

Mr Miyagi;1196174 wrote:I think you should run 4 different pools. All three of your options plus a combination of 2 and 3. It's not like you have anything else to do. I'm in for all 4.

Can anybody play the pool? Anybody outside the WCL posters? What about non legit serious business posters? Maybe we should vote on that

If someone wins the pool and doesn't have at least 16,000 posts their entry shouldn't count. We will check the ip addresses of each weekly winner, and most importantly if we don't like them we will cry about them winning.

Buckeyefan34;1195442 wrote:Smithville has done no recruiting here. IMO the baumans are just getting out of a bad situation in rittman. Im not from rittman but i do not blame them for leaving.

I was joking. Since Ritman district only covers the town, if you want a house outside of town you go to another district. There may or may not be any more to this move than a new house, I do not know.

Red Rum;1195835 wrote:As you all know....we had no pool last year.
I'm thinking about running one this season. I'm playing with several ideas....

1. WCAL only pool (straight up....10wks, 52 total games)
2. WCAL only pool (handicapped after week 3.....10wks, 52 total games)
3. WCAL+ pool (WCAL teams + Tri, Orr & Woo) (straight up.......10wks, 88 total games)

Winner gets bragging rights & all other prognosticators must rep him at the conclusion.
contest ends after week 10...no playoffs

First of all....Is anyone interested?

second......which option do you like best?

third....any other ideas?

I like option three. Can we have a none of the above choice for the big game week 10.

Jmar25;1195729 wrote:Ya. I directed that more at the statement that kids weren't coming out because of Dennis. I'm sure he works them hard there too. I would hope he is at the least. Kids want to be front runners or not play at all. Kids don't understand that success isn't instant like lots of other things are becoming. I think it is more of a mindset at schools like Rittman than anything else. I think we know why coach B got his knife sharpened up and headed back to Smithville... I bet you he saw the culture of that place and ran.

I don't think any WCAL school can claim the title of a "culture of losing" over Hillsdale's of a few years ago.
Coach Williams started with little steps like focusing on first playing close games and then beating teams like Mapleton, and Rittman and built on that. It takes small steps, like even playing no name club teams to begin the process of building a "can do" attitude. At least Rittman has a history of actually winning that can be looked back on, Hillsdale did not.
The other thing that I see a lot of is the attitude of the parents that they do not expect their kids to work hard, it is not just the kids lack of desire it is the parents lack of building that desire. A coach can not build it in two or three hours a day if the kids parents are there 25 hours a day pushing the opposite. Before some one jumps me, I am not speaking directly about Rittman as I do not know anyone from there or the situation first hand. I do however see a lot of criticism of Dennis, and whether that is deserved or not, that still builds a high level of internal strife that does not lead to a successful team.

I think you are right on here. There is simply not a large difference in the raw athletic ability of kids from school to school in the wcl. The differentiating factors are tradition which breeds attitude and an expectation of winning which is more than half the battle IMO. This alone won't win you a state title but will make you very solid almost every year. Other factors that help are different levels of parental involvement and community support. Of course there is also the size factor with some having a larger pool of kids to pull a team out of.

THE4RINGZ;1196286 wrote:If someone wins the pool and doesn't have at least 16,000 posts their entry shouldn't count. We will check the ip addresses of each weekly winner, and most importantly if we don't like them we will cry about them winning.

Tried to rep you for this but apparently I have to spread it around

1486wd;1196454 wrote:I think you are right on here. There is simply not a large difference in the raw athletic ability of kids from school to school in the wcl. The differentiating factors are tradition which breeds attitude and an expectation of winning which is more than half the battle IMO. This alone won't win you a state title but will make you very solid almost every year. Other factors that help are different levels of parental involvement and community support. Of course there is also the size factor with some having a larger pool of kids to pull a team out of.

The Bobcats are another good example! I mean, look at their history before 2006. They really struggled to put together consecutive seasons of good football. However, by bringing in the right coaching staff, the Bobcats were able to propel themselves from the bottom of the barrel to state champions in a matter of 6-7 years. Notice I didn't say 2-3 years. IT TAKES TIME, HARD WORK, DEDICATION, STICK-TO-ITIVENESS. Rittman needs to find a coach that wants to be there and leave them in the position for more than 3 years. Let someone work on building something for 5 years and see what happens at the end. If there is a lack of progress, then continue searching for the RIGHT guy, but shuffling coaches is not the way to build a program.

1486wd;1196454 wrote:I think you are right on here. There is simply not a large difference in the raw athletic ability of kids from school to school in the wcl. The differentiating factors are tradition which breeds attitude and an expectation of winning which is more than half the battle IMO. This alone won't win you a state title but will make you very solid almost every year. Other factors that help are different levels of parental involvement and community support. Of course there is also the size factor with some having a larger pool of kids to pull a team out of.

I wouldn't say it's the expectation of winning. I'd say it's the addiction to winning (one of the better addictions you can have, in my opinion).

After doing so well over several years, I'm not so sure that a lot of the Smithville kids just expected to win, no matter what they did in the offseason. As if showing up on game nights was enough, and I'd suggest that would easily explain their streak from 2007-2010. With other teams working hard and wanting to earn the league title, it leaves no chance for a team that doesn't act the same way. I think that teams who seem to struggle annually probably get into a funk of not believing that their hard work can pay off, but either way, it can perpetuate a lack of off-season commitment, which any successful team can tell you is vital to success. Whether you lose that commitment out of disbelief in yourselves or out of an expectation of winning, it WILL cripple a program.

O-Trap;1197056 wrote:I wouldn't say it's the expectation of winning. I'd say it's the addiction to winning (one of the better addictions you can have, in my opinion).

After doing so well over several years, I'm not so sure that a lot of the Smithville kids just expected to win, no matter what they did in the offseason. As if showing up on game nights was enough, and I'd suggest that would easily explain their streak from 2007-2010.

While I agree with most of what you usually say, this just isn't true. The only year I would agree with you out of this stretch is 2007. The work ethic and quality of kid may not have been there that season. Smithville caught a lot of injuries during this time period. You can say, everyone gets hurt, but the positions at which Smithville was hurt decimated their team. It wasn't that the team did not work hard. They worked extremely hard. 2008 was a 6-4 team that was 2 plays away from 8-2 and a co-league championship. 2010, all of the same kids who played on last year's 8-2 team were playing, except that team was decimated with injuries as well. Anyone who was there would tell you that could have seriously competed if Roseler, Bates, Mark Hilty aren't hurt. Sometimes you just don't have the horses or the luck. Yes, even some of the almighty Smithville teams were lucky at times haha. No team for Keith Schrock and Chuck Saris ever just showed up on game night.

1_beast;1196128 wrote:Don't be so sure the system works THAT hard...I watched a mid week practice last year and was amazed. Helmets and shoulder pads on a Tuesday night....approx week 3-4? IMO it was a spoof of a practice.

The former coaches intention all along was returning to smithville. Who didn't see that coming....minus the knife.

I'm not sure that is a bad thing. The night might be odd considering "traditional" SSH (Shorts Shoulder pads Helmet... You old folks need to know the new slang) is Mon/Thurs. Either way plenty of work can be accomplished without full pads. I know plenty of teams that start two SSH nights beginning week one. It's all preference.

I would also think that they have weight program that pushes the athletes as well. This is another area that no one sees and much of this work falls onto the athlete. Darn near every program will increase whatever the focus is as long as the athlete works to the fullest intensity of the program. Going by your observation, I'd doubt that Coach Dennis is very fancy with his workouts and is strictly a strength program. (Tough to mess that up if you try)

Additionally, he was installing a completely new system last year. A system that Rittman kids have never run before..... I would imagine that a large focus was placed installing and "perfecting" plays. Pads and physical hard work are not necessary. The mental aspect must be focused on and "perfected" to create success.

I know I've had my fun with Coach Dennis. I don't think his system fits any of the schools in our area except for Wooster possibly. /He needs to get the kids to buy into the system or adjust the system to his kids. (It's tough to adjust when you become accustomed and comfortable with a system) I just find it hard to believe that he doesn't work the kids. If that is truly the case.... Then he needs to go unless you're looking for an after school babysitter.

Some awesome off season posting going on these past few days. I love it.

1486wd;1196454 wrote:I think you are right on here. There is simply not a large difference in the raw athletic ability of kids from school to school in the wcl. The differentiating factors are tradition which breeds attitude and an expectation of winning which is more than half the battle IMO. This alone won't win you a state title but will make you very solid almost every year. Other factors that help are different levels of parental involvement and community support. Of course there is also the size factor with some having a larger pool of kids to pull a team out of.

What is Rittman's Tradtion? The 70's? Seriously. I don't know what it is. If that is the case... Then yes. There is a culture of losing. Not to mention that area isn't exactly thriving either. When I go through there (not often) it just seems to me that this area is just beat down. Sounds like a losing culture. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

As for your thought on raw talent.... Iron sharpens Iron... There is a reason that Dalton,Smithville, and Waynedale are the traditional powerhouses. They have the most talented kids year in and year out. Now... that is changing though. I think the talent gap has clearly closed between the top and middle, but not the bottom of the WCAL. I think that is changing because of the focus of the athletes. (Pee-wee programs) Waynedale has had one installed for the longest amount of time compared to others I believe. Their pee wee program has also benefited by working closely with the high school program and coaches. It is something that Norwayne has just recently seen the benefit of... (This years seniors were the first pee wee group) I'm not sure but I would think this helps to explain Hillsdale's turn around as well. Am I correct Go Falcons?

You guys are all unknown, illegitimate posters, lol......According to the hacks on the serious business forum. Therefore your opinions and thoughts (and votes) do not carry merit.

Carry on.

madman11;1195769 wrote:And I don't blame the Baumans for leaving one bit. Its a shame when you have great talents and they no longer want to be around because the coach wants to showcase his kid. Best of luck to the Baumans

How is he showcasing his kid? Any idea what position his kid will play this season? If the Baumans are building a new house for that reason, it's beyond pathetic.
If you want to blame the current coach for a kid leaving, what about those that have left in the past?

madman11;1195741 wrote:Honestly though, I have no respect for Coach B. He told every kid at Rittman he was there for the long haul and didn't care about Smithville. Don't get me wrong he is a good motivator and good defensive coach but I can't respect anyone who tells everyone he's there for the long haul only to skip out. I recall him holding a roster while talking to the seniors after his last season and asking "why would I come back?".

Agree with this and the things JMar has said.
The program needs continuity and to develop an expectation of winning. These don't happen over night. Any new coach at Rittman is going to need some time to reverse a losing mentality. I'm willing to give the current coach that time and he has my support as a fan. I'm far more worried with what's going on in certain other sports and the progress there.

Jmar25;1197294 wrote:(Pee-wee programs) Waynedale has had one installed for the longest amount of time compared to others I believe. Their pee wee program has also benefited by working closely with the high school program and coaches. It is something that Norwayne has just recently seen the benefit of... (This years seniors were the first pee wee group)

Rittman has had a pee wee program for years but a lot of kids who play are from other schools.

Obviously there are no absolutes. Even the best situations have hiccups with injuries etc that lead to a poor season. Never have really agreed with the peewee thing. As I have said before on here, I just think it can increase burnout. Dalton was the last adoptee of pee wee in the area and while they sometimes struggled in Jr high, they always caught up and often surpassed in high school. It's football, not pre med

madman11;1198052 wrote:Rittman has had a pee wee program for years but a lot of kids who play are from other schools.

That is a problem. I would try to keep my kid in our school district with others he'll see for the next 8 years.

1486wd, I don't think burnout is possible with this sport. It is played in the fall only for 6-8 games in the pee wee ranks. I don't know of any summer or winter leagues. There are camps and such in summer but that's it. I see burnout more in the HS ranks where coaches try to make it a year round sport. (Lifting,conditioning,7on7, camps...ect...)

The Dalton thing I understand. It isn't something that is necessary but as is with most sports... if you're levels (Jr,HS,) are on the same page you'll have the ability to be more successful. Pee wee is about fundamentals and allowing the kids the opportunity to like the game and become accustomed to the physical aspect of the game. Working on fundamentals an extra year or two is a good thing if it is done right by the coaches. I don't think there is a coach in the world that will disagree with me. Now with all the teams (Correct?) having a pee wee program in place you'd fall way behind in jr. high and at a disadvantage come high school. You aren't able to teach and execute the higher levels of the game as soon.

I'd also like to use wrestling as an example. The last couple years have seen the most complete and deepest wrestling the area has ever had. All of our local schools have pee wee programs and now Pee Wee TEAMS that compete. The wrestling level has greatly benefited in the area. When I first started... Waynedale/W.H./NW'ern/Orrville were the only true pee wee programs. They were also the toughest HS teams. I don't think this is a coincidence. Triway was next and then eventually everyone else has caught on. I think this can help explain the depth we're seeing in Football as well.

How is everyone's offseason attendance looking? Hoping to see several league schools in the post-season this year, and it starts when the whistles AREN'T blowing!

Thought the WCAL fans would like this...Adam Wallace & Mason Monheim at the Big 33 game with their "buddies" (special needs kids from the Hershey, PA area) for the week.