Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Dec 3, 2011 8:24pm
Its a catch 22. Would they have made pro-bowls with Manning? Argument can be made. Brandon Stokely had 1000 yards and 10 TDs with the Colts. His only Pro-Bowl. In 12 years thats about 1/3 of his TDs and 1/4 of his yards.Skyhook79;999571 wrote:exactly. Now tell me how many Pro Bowls they made combined. Keep in mind Troy Brown played 15 seasons for the Pats.
Are Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne as good with Brady? Who is to say?
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
Dec 3, 2011 8:58pm
Well lets look at the stats.Laley23;999578 wrote:Its a catch 22. Would they have made pro-bowls with Manning? Argument can be made. Brandon Stokely had 1000 yards and 10 TDs with the Colts. His only Pro-Bowl. In 12 years thats about 1/3 of his TDs and 1/4 of his yards.
Are Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne as good with Brady? Who is to say?
Tom Brady:
Games: 156
Record: 119-35 (77%)
Comp%: 63.8
Td's: 289
Int's: 113
Ratio: 2.6 td to 1 int
Passer Rating: 96.0
Yds pg: 246.0
Playoff record: 14-4 (78%)
2 Super Bowl MVP's
3 Super Bowl wins
2 League MVP (only unaminous selection ever)
Peyton Manning:
Games: 208
Record: 141-67 (68%)
Comp %: 64.9
Td's: 399
Int's: 198
Ratio: 2 Td's to 1 Int
Passer rating: 94.9
yds pg: 263.0
Playoff record: 7-8 (47%)
1 super Bowl MVP
1 Super bowl win
4 league MVP's
Stats say Tom Brady and they certainly do not say Manning is 3 spots ahead.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Dec 3, 2011 9:02pm
Yet people who played and actually are involved in the sport say Manning is better. It isnt just about numbers. I know you realize this. Every person in sports realizes it. When numbers are that close, it goes beyond them.Skyhook79;999614 wrote:Well lets look at the stats.
Tom Brady:
Games: 156
Record: 119-35 (77%)
Comp%: 63.8
Td's: 289
Int's: 113
Ratio: 2.6 td to 1 int
Passer Rating: 96.0
Yds pg: 246.0
Playoff record: 14-4 (78%)
2 Super Bowl MVP's
3 Super Bowl wins
2 League MVP (only unaminous selection ever)
Peyton Manning:
Games: 208
Record: 141-67 (68%)
Comp %: 64.9
Td's: 399
Int's: 198
Ratio: 2 Td's to 1 Int
Passer rating: 94.9
yds pg: 263.0
Playoff record: 7-8 (47%)
1 super Bowl MVP
1 Super bowl win
4 league MVP's
Stats say Tom Brady and they certainly do not say Manning is 3 spots ahead.
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
Dec 3, 2011 9:10pm
As for Manning....
I always knew he was great, but seeing what happened this year to the colts...I consider him maybe the best ever. He was good enough to cover up a flat out terrible defense and elevate average receivers to pro bowl status.
I always knew he was great, but seeing what happened this year to the colts...I consider him maybe the best ever. He was good enough to cover up a flat out terrible defense and elevate average receivers to pro bowl status.
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
Dec 3, 2011 9:17pm
wes_mantooth;999631 wrote:As for Manning....
I always knew he was great, but seeing what happened this year to the colts...I consider him maybe the best ever. He was good enough to cover up a flat out terrible defense and elevate average receivers to pro bowl status.
The Colts have been in suck for luck mode since week 3. This season proves nothing. The Colts weren't that good last year.
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
Dec 3, 2011 9:20pm
Skyhook79;999644 wrote:The Colts have been in suck for luck mode since week 3. This season proves nothing. The Colts weren't that good last year.
Eh, I agree about them mailing it in this year, but I think his control of that complex offense is amazing.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Dec 3, 2011 9:34pm
No they werent that good. Still went 10-6. Manning has managed to make the playoffs every year for how long? If he went down at any point, I dont see that team going 11-5. Which is what happened when Brady went down.Skyhook79;999644 wrote:The Colts have been in suck for luck mode since week 3. This season proves nothing. The Colts weren't that good last year.
Not that Brady is a system guy, because he isnt. But he is on a team where others can succeed, just not dominate like him. Manning is in a system that he created in his mind and no one can close to succeeding in it.
D
Dr Stromboli
Posts: 14
Dec 3, 2011 9:37pm
Laley23;999700 wrote:No they werent that good. Still went 10-6. Manning has managed to make the playoffs every year for how long? If he went down at any point, I dont see that team going 11-5. Which is what happened when Brady went down.
Not that Brady is a system guy, because he isnt. But he is on a team where others can succeed, just not dominate like him. Manning is in a system that he created in his mind and no one can close to succeeding in it.
agreed. And the same goes with a guy like Big Ben....you take him out of their line up and they stay afloat.
R
rydawg5
Posts: 2,639
Dec 3, 2011 9:42pm
I don't understand the list. If you were the best you were the best, it shouldn't matter how many championships you had. If a baseball player was on a team that couldn't win a game but he hit 100 homeruns a year, he did all he could do as the best player in the league. In a team game, I don't get the "He won 7 championships"
If Marino was truly the best passer, then he was the best quarterback.
If Marino was truly the best passer, then he was the best quarterback.
A
Al Bundy
Posts: 4,180
Dec 3, 2011 9:44pm
The Pats went from 16-0 with Brady to 11-5 without. A 5 game dropoff in the NFL for a team that is trying is huge.Laley23;999700 wrote:No they werent that good. Still went 10-6. Manning has managed to make the playoffs every year for how long? If he went down at any point, I dont see that team going 11-5. Which is what happened when Brady went down.
Not that Brady is a system guy, because he isnt. But he is on a team where others can succeed, just not dominate like him. Manning is in a system that he created in his mind and no one can close to succeeding in it.
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
Dec 3, 2011 9:48pm
Not to mention the Pats didn't make the playoffs that year either.Al Bundy;999728 wrote:The Pats went from 16-0 with Brady to 11-5 without. A 5 game dropoff in the NFL for a team that is trying is huge.
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
Dec 3, 2011 9:50pm
People always discount stats when they are not in their favor. The huge difference in the Playoffs makes Brady better than Manning. I didn't post playoff stats but Brady's are better too.Laley23;999620 wrote:Yet people who played and actually are involved in the sport say Manning is better. It isnt just about numbers. I know you realize this. Every person in sports realizes it. When numbers are that close, it goes beyond them.
R
rydawg5
Posts: 2,639
Dec 3, 2011 9:51pm
That doesn't really have anything to do with going 11-5 and being the unluckiest team in history, while 8-8 NFC teams were making the playoffsSkyhook79;999737 wrote:Not to mention the Pats didn't make the playoffs that year either.
Also, the wouldn't have repeated as a 16-0 team even with Brady healthy, so in reality, it wasn't a 5 game drop off.
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
Dec 3, 2011 10:02pm
Your first point is irrelevant because in reality they didn't make the playoffs.rydawg5;999746 wrote:That doesn't really have anything to do with going 11-5 and being the unluckiest team in history, while 8-8 NFC teams were making the playoffs
Also, the wouldn't have repeated as a 16-0 team even with Brady healthy, so in reality, it wasn't a 5 game drop off.
Your 2nd point can't be proven or dis-proven so it is irrelevent also even though the reality of it was they lost 5 more games than the previous year.
R
rydawg5
Posts: 2,639
Dec 3, 2011 10:08pm
The 1st point is relevant, because 11-5 is a great season and is all you need to make the playoffs 99% of the time.Skyhook79;999777 wrote:Your first point is irrelevant because in reality they didn't make the playoffs.
Your 2nd point can't be proven or dis-proven so it is irrelevent also even though the reality of it was they lost 5 more games than the previous year.
The 2nd pint is relevant because they weren't going to repeat a 16-0 regular season.
Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Dec 3, 2011 10:31pm
I still have trouble with the one championship Manning has....game versus Patriots in playoffs was amazing and such a great game....but then when it was crucial the referees took over.
Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Dec 3, 2011 10:32pm
I think Manning is higher because he is more liked.
D
Dr Stromboli
Posts: 14
Dec 3, 2011 10:37pm
yeah, that doesn't hurt in swaying people one way or the other.Ironman92;999858 wrote:I think Manning is higher because he is more liked.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Dec 3, 2011 11:27pm
Before I clicked into this thread I thought if Otto Graham wasn't #1 than this list was garbage. Glad to see he got it right.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Dec 4, 2011 12:05am
But you can prove the Colts have quit this year????Skyhook79;999777 wrote: Your 2nd point can't be proven or dis-proven so it is irrelevent also even though the reality of it was they lost 5 more games than the previous year.
Thats what I thought. So in reality, Manning is worth 10 games, if the Colts go winless.
And no, I dont ever use Championships to rate players. There is no doubt in my mind Manning and Brady are better than Montana. I think they are both top 5 QBs ever.
J
jmog
Posts: 6,567
Dec 4, 2011 8:26am
Here's the difference to show that Manning is better.Skyhook79;999614 wrote:Well lets look at the stats.
Tom Brady:
Games: 156
Record: 119-35 (77%)
Comp%: 63.8
Td's: 289
Int's: 113
Ratio: 2.6 td to 1 int
Passer Rating: 96.0
Yds pg: 246.0
Playoff record: 14-4 (78%)
2 Super Bowl MVP's
3 Super Bowl wins
2 League MVP (only unaminous selection ever)
Peyton Manning:
Games: 208
Record: 141-67 (68%)
Comp %: 64.9
Td's: 399
Int's: 198
Ratio: 2 Td's to 1 Int
Passer rating: 94.9
yds pg: 263.0
Playoff record: 7-8 (47%)
1 super Bowl MVP
1 Super bowl win
4 league MVP's
Stats say Tom Brady and they certainly do not say Manning is 3 spots ahead.
When Brady got hurt, Matt Cassel came in and the team was still dang good. Matt Cassel has sucked since.
When Manning got hurt his backup(s) come in and the team is the worst team in the NFL.
As bad as this list was it got one thing right, Manning is the smartest QB to ever play the game. Wayne, Harrison, Clark, and Stokley are not household names if anyone else is playing QB for the Colts.
Rotinaj
Posts: 7,699
Dec 4, 2011 8:42am
Manning is better than Brady.
/end of discussion
Edit-Also Manning has never been caught cheating like the pats. And even though Dungy is a good coach hes not in the same galaxy as B squared.
/end of discussion
Edit-Also Manning has never been caught cheating like the pats. And even though Dungy is a good coach hes not in the same galaxy as B squared.
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Dec 4, 2011 9:05am
Not taking sides but you DO realize that Manning plays in one of the weaker divisions in the NFL? JAX & TENN are usually "gimmes" and Houston hasn't seemed to find a way to figure it out with all of that talent. Not saying Manning isn't great but he's essentially playing in the AFC's version of the NFC West.Laley23;999700 wrote:No they werent that good. Still went 10-6. Manning has managed to make the playoffs every year for how long?
Rotinaj
Posts: 7,699
Dec 4, 2011 9:22am
The lolphins and bills havent exactly been world beaters either. And the Jets havent been that great aside from these last 2 playoff runs. I think both divisions have been equally bad.
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
Dec 4, 2011 9:47am
Cassel has "sucked" since? First off he went to a team that "sucked" and 2nd he was a Pro-Bowler in 2010 his 2nd year with the Chiefs and they went 10-6 throwing 27 Td's and only 7 Int's. This year he has been hurt most of the year. The reason the Pats went 11-5 with Cassel is because he is a good QB. Just because the Colts don't have a suitable back-up doesn't make Manning better.jmog;1000279 wrote:Here's the difference to show that Manning is better.
When Brady got hurt, Matt Cassel came in and the team was still dang good. Matt Cassel has sucked since.
When Manning got hurt his backup(s) come in and the team is the worst team in the NFL.
As bad as this list was it got one thing right, Manning is the smartest QB to ever play the game. Wayne, Harrison, Clark, and Stokley are not household names if anyone else is playing QB for the Colts.