Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Feb 9, 2012 9:52pm
dave;1081607 wrote:Bailey is too much of a head case to ever work in GABP. If you are going to go in, you go all in.
Never agreed more.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Feb 9, 2012 9:53pm
Yeah because Roy Oswalt just screams ALL IN!
D
dave
Posts: 4,558
Feb 9, 2012 10:00pm
Did you miss the Latos, Marshall, and Madson deals?
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Feb 9, 2012 10:04pm
No, obviously they went all in for them. Which I loved.
But sending Homer away for Oswalt is stupid...I'm not necessarily against trading him, but not for Roy Fucking Oswalt.
But sending Homer away for Oswalt is stupid...I'm not necessarily against trading him, but not for Roy Fucking Oswalt.
Midstate01
Posts: 14,766
Feb 9, 2012 10:29pm
I'm 200% against Oswalt. We don't need a guy who is 1) past his prime and 2) basically just looking to make more money. He has nothing more to prove.
As for homer, I've been really hard on him, but I still keep thinking that he will break out and be the pitcher we know he can be.
As for homer, I've been really hard on him, but I still keep thinking that he will break out and be the pitcher we know he can be.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Feb 9, 2012 10:46pm
+1trillionMidstate01;1081722 wrote:I'm 200% against Oswalt. We don't need a guy who is 1) past his prime and 2) basically just looking to make more money. He has nothing more to prove.
As for homer, I've been really hard on him, but I still keep thinking that he will break out and be the pitcher we know he can be.
R
rightfield
Posts: 164
Feb 11, 2012 11:16am
I'm totally against shipping off any more of our young talent at this point. It will take several years to fill the void created in our system after this off season. If adding Roy doesn't mean shipping Homer then I am for it.
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
Feb 11, 2012 11:46am
I still am a little worried about losing Grandal and Alonso in that deal. We gave up a ton. Latos better be a stud for us!
It would have been nice to have Grandal down on the farm once Votto heads to Toronto
It would have been nice to have Grandal down on the farm once Votto heads to Toronto
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Feb 11, 2012 11:47am
I'm sure if Jocketty thinks Votto will leave after the deal, he will deal him next year and get his replacement plus more. Walt's not dumbjordo212000;1082900 wrote:I still am a little worried about losing Grandal and Alonso in that deal. We gave up a ton. Latos better be a stud for us!
It would have been nice to have Grandal down on the farm once Votto heads to Toronto
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
Feb 11, 2012 11:55am
Reds are trying to win now. No way they deal Votto for prospects and no way they trade him. Unless the team massively underperforms
You don't trade young talent to win now and then turn around and trade your best player
Plus no way Votto tells Cincy what he is doing.
You don't trade young talent to win now and then turn around and trade your best player
Plus no way Votto tells Cincy what he is doing.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Feb 11, 2012 12:00pm
Notice how they're signing players for 1 year deals? It's this year or bust for Cincy.jordo212000;1082904 wrote:Reds are trying to win now. No way they deal Votto for prospects and no way they trade him. Unless the team massively underperforms
You don't trade young talent to win now and then turn around and trade your best player
Plus no way Votto tells Cincy what he is doing.
If they dont win anything this year, look for Walt to deal Votto if he thinks he's going to leave.
I'm not saying Votto's gonna say "i'm outta here next year" but I'm sure Walt can sit him down and get an understanding of what he's going to do.
T
thavoice
Posts: 14,376
Feb 11, 2012 12:06pm
Votto is here for two more seasons. Lets not be like Cav fans and whine and bitch and complain for 2-3 years that he will be gone soon.
You hold onto him as long as possible and give this team a chance to win.
Reds have been known to sign guys to just one year deals...not uncommon to do that.
Latos will be a stud. Talked to a person who played with him and said he is the real deal and thinks he will do well in cincy.
Been hearing that the negotiations with BP arent going well for an extension, and I can def see that. BP has done alot of great stuff in cincy, but he seems like he woud be "that guy" who wants to squeeze every dollar out of a deal. Some guys will give in a bit to stay with their own team, and some say fuck it to leave. BP I think is that guy.
And ya know what.........if they cannot get a fair deal lets use his motivation for a FA contract this season. HE seems to play best when he has a chip on his shoulder so if he plays all season with one to get a deal.......fine with me! I am a realist....I know the REds are not an organization that is going to be in the running for 10years straight.....they gotta win when they can and that is NOW
You hold onto him as long as possible and give this team a chance to win.
Reds have been known to sign guys to just one year deals...not uncommon to do that.
Latos will be a stud. Talked to a person who played with him and said he is the real deal and thinks he will do well in cincy.
Been hearing that the negotiations with BP arent going well for an extension, and I can def see that. BP has done alot of great stuff in cincy, but he seems like he woud be "that guy" who wants to squeeze every dollar out of a deal. Some guys will give in a bit to stay with their own team, and some say fuck it to leave. BP I think is that guy.
And ya know what.........if they cannot get a fair deal lets use his motivation for a FA contract this season. HE seems to play best when he has a chip on his shoulder so if he plays all season with one to get a deal.......fine with me! I am a realist....I know the REds are not an organization that is going to be in the running for 10years straight.....they gotta win when they can and that is NOW
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Feb 11, 2012 12:17pm
Would you rather have Votto for one year or 2-4 stud prospects including a top 10 prospect?
You have to look out for the better of the franchise, and if the team can't win it this year what makes you think they'll win it the year after? Especially with the 1 year contract guys gone?
You have to look out for the better of the franchise, and if the team can't win it this year what makes you think they'll win it the year after? Especially with the 1 year contract guys gone?
T
thavoice
Posts: 14,376
Feb 11, 2012 12:32pm
Both.
The window really is two seasons. There are a number of one year deals, but they can be resigned again or replaced, but I would rather take my best shot when we have a bona fide superstar. Prospects are just that...prospects. There are no guarentees.
Take two more shots with Votto, and if in that second year it just isnt working then see what ya can get at the deadline. It wont be as good as after this season, but the time really is now.
The reds are drafting and developing alot better than they have had in the past. I would rather see two years of Votto, and if he is gone then move forward with whom is in the system. I do not wanna be that franchise who flirts with being good, then trades their star away to start again. I would rather take teh full shot with that star, and do what it takes to win, and if he leaves....well...we got our m oneys worth out of him.
I think that votto has a better chance at staying than most reds fans do, but if not i want to take the next two seasons and put a team around him to win now. I understand your thinking and if the reds werent true contenders then I would be all for trading him after the season for prospects, but damn....a guy like him doesnt come along very often and I think the reds have a better chance at winning it all within the next two years with VOtto than they do in the 5-6 years afterwards by trading him away.
We have suffered a long time for this chance.
I understand your process though.
The window really is two seasons. There are a number of one year deals, but they can be resigned again or replaced, but I would rather take my best shot when we have a bona fide superstar. Prospects are just that...prospects. There are no guarentees.
Take two more shots with Votto, and if in that second year it just isnt working then see what ya can get at the deadline. It wont be as good as after this season, but the time really is now.
The reds are drafting and developing alot better than they have had in the past. I would rather see two years of Votto, and if he is gone then move forward with whom is in the system. I do not wanna be that franchise who flirts with being good, then trades their star away to start again. I would rather take teh full shot with that star, and do what it takes to win, and if he leaves....well...we got our m oneys worth out of him.
I think that votto has a better chance at staying than most reds fans do, but if not i want to take the next two seasons and put a team around him to win now. I understand your thinking and if the reds werent true contenders then I would be all for trading him after the season for prospects, but damn....a guy like him doesnt come along very often and I think the reds have a better chance at winning it all within the next two years with VOtto than they do in the 5-6 years afterwards by trading him away.
We have suffered a long time for this chance.
I understand your process though.
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
Feb 11, 2012 12:51pm
You win what you can with Votto and then figure out the rest later.
You become the Indians when you start trading big time players for pennies on the dollar. It derails your franchise when said pennies don't even end up amounting to 'pennies'
You become the Indians when you start trading big time players for pennies on the dollar. It derails your franchise when said pennies don't even end up amounting to 'pennies'
Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Feb 11, 2012 5:01pm
I just hope Homer, who will be 26 for the vast majority of this season can manage double digit wins, 140+ innings and a sub 4.35 era.....cause he has never done any of those things.
I'd take 13-11 195 inn and a 4.00 era
If he can't put it all together and do at least that I'd trade him for a gross of baseballs.
I'd take 13-11 195 inn and a 4.00 era
If he can't put it all together and do at least that I'd trade him for a gross of baseballs.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Feb 13, 2012 8:09am
Votto's replacement is already in the system, so they don't need to necessarily find his replacement. So if they do decide to move Votto at the deadline of the '13 season, they will be able to fill other deficiencies. At this point, I'm against re-signing BP unless it is a very favorable deal for the Reds. He's getting up there in age, and I think the 4 or 5 year deal he wants is too much.
T
thavoice
Posts: 14,376
Feb 13, 2012 2:30pm
If BP is smart he should resign. I just dont think there will be a monster market for him after next year. SI was talking about how some of the frontline guys are getting big bucks, but the rest really arent cashing in. BP isnt in that upper echelon of stars that can command a huge dollar.
Reds should stand firm, and if it happens then just use him for this season if he doesnt want to resign.
I think this is Bailey's make or break year. He was a top pick so we expect an ace. Well, that doesnt happen all the time. If he can be a guy who wins 12-15 with a mid 4 ERA then that is a solid rotation guy. He has showed improvement, and lets hope he can stay healthy to pitch a full season, something he hasnt done yet. I think it is safe to say he isnt going to be the stud that the Reds had hoped outta HS, but that doesnt mean he cannot be a productive rotation guy. Cueto and Latos are very good, Leake I think will be very solid and continue to get better. He wont be the strikeout guy but I see him as a poor mans Greg Maddux.
Reds should stand firm, and if it happens then just use him for this season if he doesnt want to resign.
I think this is Bailey's make or break year. He was a top pick so we expect an ace. Well, that doesnt happen all the time. If he can be a guy who wins 12-15 with a mid 4 ERA then that is a solid rotation guy. He has showed improvement, and lets hope he can stay healthy to pitch a full season, something he hasnt done yet. I think it is safe to say he isnt going to be the stud that the Reds had hoped outta HS, but that doesnt mean he cannot be a productive rotation guy. Cueto and Latos are very good, Leake I think will be very solid and continue to get better. He wont be the strikeout guy but I see him as a poor mans Greg Maddux.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Feb 13, 2012 5:06pm
Jocketty said there is expected to be no additional roster moves
So no ridiculous deal sending Homer Bailey for Oswalt? Sweeeet
So no ridiculous deal sending Homer Bailey for Oswalt? Sweeeet
T
thavoice
Posts: 14,376
Feb 14, 2012 2:48pm
Yeah. He said that he believes Oswalt is waiting on texas to dump money.
It isnt like the reds HAD to get rid of bailey to sign oswalt. It wasnt an either-or scenario. That was what got tossed around on the talk show circuit but they most def could keep bailey and have Oswalt.. May not be a spot in the rotation though at the onset.
Cueto, Latos, Leake, Chapman, Bailey/Oswalt/Arroyo....7 for 5 and in the first month they only need a 5th starter a couple of times in the first thirty days.
Something would have to happen tho if Oswalt was signed.
It isnt like the reds HAD to get rid of bailey to sign oswalt. It wasnt an either-or scenario. That was what got tossed around on the talk show circuit but they most def could keep bailey and have Oswalt.. May not be a spot in the rotation though at the onset.
Cueto, Latos, Leake, Chapman, Bailey/Oswalt/Arroyo....7 for 5 and in the first month they only need a 5th starter a couple of times in the first thirty days.
Something would have to happen tho if Oswalt was signed.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Feb 15, 2012 4:56pm
T
thavoice
Posts: 14,376
Feb 15, 2012 5:15pm
Not too bad of a list. Could do without the gangster wearing the hat.......and charlie sheen!
Mo Egger......also does some work on WLW.
Mo Egger......also does some work on WLW.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Feb 15, 2012 9:04pm
That's actually a decent list...nice.
justincredible
Posts: 32,056
Feb 19, 2012 9:03pm
I'm in Arizona for the week and will be attending practice on Monday, Tuesday, and Friday. I'll be tweeting pictures from practice so follow my twitter account if you want to see them. Or don't. I donut carrot all.
https://twitter.com/#!/redsfacts
https://twitter.com/#!/redsfacts