B1G-ACC Challenge 2011

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robj55

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Nov 20, 2011 6:34 PM
Craft is one of the best defenders I have ever seen at any level, unreal lateral quickness and desire.
Nov 20, 2011 6:34pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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15,696 posts
Nov 20, 2011 6:41 PM
Aaron Craft is definitely one of the best defensive guards I've seen at the college level in quite sometime.

People don't want to admit it because he's at OSU.

He has the quickest hands I've seen and he is in the right position 98% of the time.

Billy Donovan is a respectable CBB coach, so when he says something like he did about Craft, I tend to listen. My statements have nothing to do with personal bias, he's just that good.
Nov 20, 2011 6:41pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Nov 20, 2011 7:30 PM
reclegend22;981342 wrote:Weren't you the person who just yesterday said that it was fortuitous that the Harvard fan who was flattened by a U-Haul truck ended up expiring because, as you put it, Harvard fans need to be taken down a peg or two? Perhaps you should take note of your own words of wisdom.
You only like Duke because they are good. You are probably a USC fan in college football.

Enjoy your bandwagon.
Nov 20, 2011 7:30pm
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wildcats20

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Nov 20, 2011 7:58 PM
hoops23;981374 wrote:Aaron Craft is definitely one of the best defensive guards I've seen at the college level in quite sometime.

People don't want to admit it because he's at OSU.

He has the quickest hands I've seen and he is in the right position 98% of the time.

Billy Donovan is a respectable CBB coach, so when he says something like he did about Craft, I tend to listen. My statements have nothing to do with personal bias, he's just that good.
No, it's because he's white.

Obviously, that is some sarcasm. But it's also very true.

Kendall Marshall said during the OSU/UF game that he considers Aaron Craft the best on-ball defender in the country. I think he would know better than any of us.
Nov 20, 2011 7:58pm
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hoops23

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Nov 20, 2011 8:06 PM
I was going to play the race card, but decided not to, LOL.
Nov 20, 2011 8:06pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Nov 20, 2011 8:20 PM
hoops23;981525 wrote:I was going to play the race card, but decided not too, LOL.
It's 100% true though.
Nov 20, 2011 8:20pm
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hoops23

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Nov 20, 2011 8:27 PM
Si
Nov 20, 2011 8:27pm
reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

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Nov 20, 2011 9:11 PM
sleeper wrote:You only like Duke because they are good. You are probably a USC fan in college football.

Enjoy your bandwagon.
I like Duke because my Dad watched Duke when I was growing up and, as a result, I went to Coach K's camps in Durham when I was a kid. You only like Ohio State because you have egregious taste in basketball.

Enjoy your team that hasn't won anything since before Beatlemania.
Nov 20, 2011 9:11pm
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sleeper

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Nov 20, 2011 9:14 PM
reclegend22;981663 wrote:I like Duke because my Dad watched Duke when I was growing up and, as a result, I went to Coach K's camps in Durham when I was a kid. You only like Ohio State because you have egregious taste in basketball.

Enjoy your team that hasn't won anything since before Beatlemania.
Yeah, so your weak bandwaggoning Dad taught you to root for the winner. Awesome. No one believes you and probably thinks less of you because you are bandwagon fan. Enjoy!

And nice quip about Ohio State not winning anything. Tell me, since you are such a huge Duke fan, do you want to talk Duke football? LOL Like I said, you'll probably give me some sob story about your great uncle who used to root for USC/Bama/Auburn and that you are huge fan. You're a joke with no loyalty.
Nov 20, 2011 9:14pm
reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

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Nov 20, 2011 9:29 PM
I am a fan of the game, but I do not enjoy a favorite team in college football. The only teams I've ever cheered for are Duke and the Indiana Pacers, and that's largely because Reggie Miller is my all-time favorite basketball player. I've followed Duke my whole life. I've been to many games in my lifetime, including early-season tournaments on the west coast, national championship games and contests inside of Cameron Indoor Stadium, in addition to having attended and worked at the Duke Basketball summer camp multiple times. Not that I need validation from somebody as pretentiously ridiculous as yourself (I can't be sure, but I bet a large portion of Ohio State fans here wish that you weren't, because you give them an awful name and it's why so many hate you ("you" being OSU).

When it comes to being a fan, I'm as loyal as they come.
Nov 20, 2011 9:29pm
swamisez's avatar

swamisez

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Nov 20, 2011 10:42 PM
Perception is that Aaron Craft is the best on ball defender in the country for sure. Adjusted Defense ratings have him in the top 5. However, I still wouldn't feel comfortable as a Buckeye fan come March when teams spread the floor and send their guards at Craft one on one to the rack.

Kemba Walker and Kyrie Irving may be gone, but someone like him will be there to try Craft defensively in a late game scenario. (Marquis Teague comes to mind)

Maybe it is just my experience of seeing guys like Greg Paulus, Chris Kramer, and Steve Wojciechowski get abused by quicker guards? Bottom line is his anticipation skills have to be among some the greatest in basketball history in order to beat the slashing point guards of today.
Nov 20, 2011 10:42pm
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hoops23

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Nov 20, 2011 10:42 PM
ccrunner609;981829 wrote:The ACC is 10-2 in 12 years of this........
LOL.

Cool. The B1G has won the last 2, no?

However, the challenge is usually close. Normally comes down to a game or 2.
Nov 20, 2011 10:42pm
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hoops23

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Nov 20, 2011 10:43 PM
swamisez;981880 wrote:Perception is that Aaron Craft is the best on ball defender in the country for sure. Adjusted Defense ratings have him in the top 5. However, I still wouldn't feel comfortable as a Buckeye fan come March when teams spread the floor and send their guards at Craft one on one to the rack.

Kemba Walker and Kyrie Irving may be gone, but someone like him will be there to try Craft defensively in a late game scenario. (Marquis Teague comes to mind)

Maybe it is just my experience of seeing guys like Greg Paulus, Chris Kramer, and Steve Wojciechowski get abused by quicker guards? Bottom line is his anticipation skills have to be among some the greatest in basketball history in order to beat the slashing point guards of today.
So wait...

Are you implying that because Craft is white, he must be slow?

Have you actually seen Craft play? He's a very quick guard himself and can beat just about anybody off the dribble in his own right.
Nov 20, 2011 10:43pm
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sleeper

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Nov 20, 2011 10:46 PM
reclegend22;981698 wrote:I am a fan of the game, but I do not enjoy a favorite team in college football.
Surprise surprise. Seems a lot of Duke fans just feel this way. Convenient.
Nov 20, 2011 10:46pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Nov 20, 2011 10:48 PM
swamisez;981880 wrote:Perception is that Aaron Craft is the best on ball defender in the country for sure. Adjusted Defense ratings have him in the top 5. However, I still wouldn't feel comfortable as a Buckeye fan come March when teams spread the floor and send their guards at Craft one on one to the rack.

Kemba Walker and Kyrie Irving may be gone, but someone like him will be there to try Craft defensively in a late game scenario. (Marquis Teague comes to mind)

Maybe it is just my experience of seeing guys like Greg Paulus, Chris Kramer, and Steve Wojciechowski get abused by quicker guards? Bottom line is his anticipation skills have to be among some the greatest in basketball history in order to beat the slashing point guards of today.
So you've never watched Craft play; Gotcha!

He would absolutely abuse Teague or any of the bigger point guards. PGs don't post up in college, and even if they do on occasion, Craft has held his own down there.
Nov 20, 2011 10:48pm
reclegend22's avatar

reclegend22

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Nov 20, 2011 10:50 PM
In 10 challenge wins out of the 12 years it has been played, ACC teams are 72-47 all-time in this event. The ACC's success is largely the byproduct of the dominance of Duke (11-1 in the challenge), Wake Forest (9-2), Maryland (9-3) and Boston College (5-0) against the Big Ten. Interestingly, North Carolina is just 6-6 in the event. That actually really surprised me.

While the Big Ten edged the ACC by a 6 to 5 advantage in each of the past two seasons, the ACC dismantled the Big Ten by challenge wins of 7 to 2 in 2003, 7 to 2 in 2004, 8 to 3 in 2006, and 8 to 3 in 2007.

This is very much a one-sided event historically and I think the ACC regains its upper hand in 2011.
Nov 20, 2011 10:50pm
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swamisez

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Nov 20, 2011 10:56 PM
Got into this with Buckeye fans last year. Aaron Craft is good, but he is not Gary Payton. Teams will spread the offense and quicker players will drive past him. David Lighty was quicker and a better deny of wing penetration last year (Hence his higher defense rating). Without Lighty, Craft will be forced to limit guard penetration even more so. I believe there will be a game at some point in March that he will be put on an island of sorts, and he will be beaten more often than he will succeed.
Nov 20, 2011 10:56pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

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Nov 20, 2011 11:09 PM
ccrunner609;981829 wrote:The ACC is 10-2 in 12 years of this........
He meant in terms of how many games each side wins. Like 6-5 ACC ect. Not sure how that was so hard to pick up on.

And as far as Craft, I agree hes very very good on defense. But best in the country, or one of the best of all time ect is going a little overboard. Defense is often all opinion anyways, because aside from steals and blocks(and that often doesnt tell the whole story) theres no real way to gauge whos a better on ball defender than the next person aside from opinion
Nov 20, 2011 11:09pm
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reclegend22

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Nov 20, 2011 11:16 PM
Hb31187 wrote:He meant in terms of how many games each side wins. Like 6-5 ACC ect. Not sure how that was so hard to pick up on.
Yes, but over the ACC's 10 challenge wins in 12 events, the ACC has won the challenge four different years by margins of 7 to 2 (2003), 7 to 2 (2004), 8 to 3 (2006) and 8 to 3 (2007). That's pretty dominating.

The Big Ten has certainly put up better performances in recent seasons, however, culminating in its first two challenge wins the past couple of years.
Nov 20, 2011 11:16pm
swamisez's avatar

swamisez

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Nov 20, 2011 11:17 PM
I know this video is a bit long (9 minutes) but just watch Aaron Craft in this video. Look at how they run high ball screen, scrape him off, then turn the corner because he tries to go overtop the screen.

Later, they put him on the right or left wing, and penetrate the middle of the defense either shooting an 8-10 footer or kicking it to the opposite wing for a three.

I think what there is to take away is that he is only a Freshman here, but given his physical stature and the nature of the players he will play against in the tournament in the coming years I believe this will happen again.

[video=youtube_share;SGyFxaqSjwk][/video]
Nov 20, 2011 11:17pm
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Hb31187

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Nov 20, 2011 11:24 PM
reclegend22;981943 wrote:Yes, but over the ACC's 10 challenge wins in 12 events, the ACC has won the challenge four different years by margins of 7 to 2 (2003), 7 to 2 (2004), 8 to 3 (2006) and 8 to 3 (2007). That's pretty dominating.

The Big Ten has certainly put up better performances in recent seasons, however, culminating in its first two challenge wins the past couple of years.
CC runner had no idea about that though lol. He thought the guy was talking abotu overall record in the challenge
Nov 20, 2011 11:24pm
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sleeper

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Nov 21, 2011 12:01 AM
reclegend22;981894 wrote:In 10 challenge wins out of the 12 years it has been played, ACC teams are 72-47 all-time in this event. The ACC's success is largely the byproduct of the dominance of Duke (11-1 in the challenge), Wake Forest (9-2), Maryland (9-3) and Boston College (5-0) against the Big Ten. Interestingly, North Carolina is just 6-6 in the event. That actually really surprised me.

While the Big Ten edged the ACC by a 6 to 5 advantage in each of the past two seasons, the ACC dismantled the Big Ten by challenge wins of 7 to 2 in 2003, 7 to 2 in 2004, 8 to 3 in 2006, and 8 to 3 in 2007.

This is very much a one-sided event historically and I think the ACC regains its upper hand in 2011.
Good things the tides of war are changing. The ACC era is over and time for the new B1G era to take over. The ACC always has had the advantage in these tournaments because their worst team is always left out in the match ups. The B1G has emerged with more than just MSU and Indiana leading the pack, but now have a multitude of teams that can compete with the ACC(basketball only conference). Good luck, and go Duke football LOL
Nov 21, 2011 12:01am
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swamisez

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Nov 21, 2011 10:47 AM
Wow Duke football jokes? Tell us some we haven't heard before.

At Duke 96% of football players graduate
at Ohio State 62% of players graduate

Looking at most BCS schools, if you want to be competitive you need to be in the 60% graduation rating. The exceptions are Notre Dame and Stanford. Each of those schools have facilities that far surpass Duke. The commitment to football under former president Keohane was lacking, and with increased giving by the Yoh family and the Pascal family Duke football will help lessen that gap.

Duke football will be a bowl eligible team in the next 3 years. The facilities are quickly improving and the disparity in talent from the early 2000's is shrinking. Graduating <90% of players and winning just 6 games is perfectly fine with me. I would love to have a football program that is successful, but realize that logistically it isn't feasible. So long as the program continues to be run cleanly and there aren't scandals filling the papers like there have been at Carolina, Ohio State, Penn State, all will be fine.
Nov 21, 2011 10:47am
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SportsAndLady

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Nov 21, 2011 10:54 AM
At Duke 96% of football players graduate
at Ohio State 62% of players graduate
Love this every time I hear it. "Our team sucks but damnit we graduate on time!"
Nov 21, 2011 10:54am
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chicago510

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Nov 21, 2011 11:28 AM
SportsAndLady;982261 wrote:Love this every time I hear it. "Our team sucks but damnit we graduate on time!"
Lol right? Of course they graduate, they sure as hell aren't going pro early. What else are they going to do?
Nov 21, 2011 11:28am