RedRider1;1285794 wrote:You innocently call it speaking your opinion, but it's more than that. You dog the coach and anyone that dare support the program.

Your ego has taken a serious hit because you can't deal with the fact that your alma mater has had some bad losses lately and you can't puff your chest out over there in Jackson. You took some grief from guys you work with and you're coping by projecting that back toward the head coach.

And yeah...we golfed together. You're we're a blow hard then & not much has changed.

That's why I respect other posters on this site that played the game. I'll defer to their opinion every single day...and anyone that has played for the program wouldn't run it down the way you and others (who also didn't play or are an alum) have done.

And you're writing a book about the Orrville Football Tradition?

Thanks for telling me how I was then and still am now, Didnt know we hung out so much at either time that you would actually know how I am. I can assure you one thing: Nobody in Jackson Twp gives a damn about the football program at Orrville. Whether I went there or who did it isnt something that consumes my life or theirs unlike yourself! I certainly dont walk around Stark county and pump my chest about the fact that I went to Orrville. THis is the mecca of high school football and it always will be.

So answer this honestly...when did the worm turn on the current coach for you personally?

Was it the Norwayne loss? I'm just curious. Seemed like it was all good up until then.

You were like the head cheerleader. Organizing meet ups before playoff games and being supportive.

Now it seems real different and it has me curious.

RedRider1;1285808 wrote:So answer this honestly...when did the worm turn on the current coach for you personally?

Was it the Norwayne loss? I'm just curious. Seemed like it was all good up until then.

You were like the head cheerleader. Organizing meet ups before playoff games and being supportive.

Now it seems real different and it has me curious.

Actually it started at the beginning of last year and the end of the year before that. For me it was all about the lack of discipline. Yes I did organize an event in Tiffin 3 years ago and MANY people came. I will always support the program as I have told you before but it doesnt mean I have to agree with everything they do. As I mentioned earlier I have gained some respect for Coach Davault after reading his comments. He is saying nothing any differnt about himself that 3 of us are saying on here. Because we speak our opinions we are idiots, bashers, classless and any other words that I am missing. He even mentions in the paper that after games a lot of people come down and call him an idiot and that was not me. I did witness somebody after the 33-0 loss at home 2 years ago against Clearfork walk right up to him at the end of the game and tell him that was embarrasing. He turned to the guy and said thanks for your support. I really feel he meant that because at least people in Orrville are passionate about the program. I respect a guy that puts the blame on himself and admits he needs to do a better job. I understand your side too as you have to always write the positives but sometimes you need to be realistic. Let me ask you a question? If we finish the year 1-9, next year go 2-8, then the year after that 1-9 again what will you say? Im curious because that is the reality you better get real with. At that point will it still be a lack of talent?

I respect that.

If we go 2-8 next year and are slow to adjust our offense to what I believe with be a strength in the run game, I'll have an issue. If we're going to be stubborn about the spread without the kids to run it then the coaches aren't putting the kids in a position to compete.

Glad someone else noticed coach's comment in the paper. What I & others are trying to say is that the program has good men leading it. If coach would've thrown the kids under the bus, that would have rubbed people the wrong way...but a good leader of young men doesn't do that.

If I would have pointed that out, I'd have been called a kiss up or whatever. I know coach to see him & say hi, but we're not friends & outside of the occasional interview there's no interaction between he & I.

But I respect him....

Interesting you speak about discipline...I thought in terms of penalties, we've been doing a pretty good job up until the first half of the WH game. No late hit penalties & dumb mistake type stuff.

RedRider1;1285821 wrote:I respect that.

If we go 2-8 next year and are slow to adjust our offense to what I believe with be a strength in the run game, I'll have an issue. If we're going to be stubborn about the spread without the kids to run it then the coaches aren't putting the kids in a position to compete.

Glad someone else noticed coach's comment in the paper. What I & others are trying to say is that the program has good men leading it. If coach would've thrown the kids under the bus, that would have rubbed people the wrong way...but a good leader of young men doesn't do that.

If I would have pointed that out, I'd have been called a kiss up or whatever. I know coach to see him & say hi, but we're not friends & outside of the occasional interview there's no interaction between he & I.

But I respect him....

Interesting you speak about discipline...I thought in terms of penalties, we've been doing a pretty good job up until the first half of the WH game. No late hit penalties & dumb mistake type stuff.

That is exactly what I meant when I said lack of discipline. Late hits and dumb penalties is when i started turning on him. It is ok to get penalties but the late hit ones I struggle with because that just makes the program look bad. The worse thing is NOTHING was said to them kids when they ran off the sidelines. So I assumed coach was OK with it and that became a problem with me. Maybe he praises in public and disciplines in private but I just didnt see the "coaching" of the kids that did it taking place. I agree the penalties havent been bad this year but it is the little things with me that bother me. The same plays being called over and over and us running plays in and out with other players. Get with the times. I am sure he is a great guy but you have to understand I only call it as I see it on Friday nights because I dont live in Orrville.

Red Rider Nation;1285831 wrote:That is exactly what I meant when I said lack of discipline. Late hits and dumb penalties is when i started turning on him. It is ok to get penalties but the late hit ones I struggle with because that just makes the program look bad. The worse thing is NOTHING was said to them kids when they ran off the sidelines. So I assumed coach was OK with it and that became a problem with me. Maybe he praises in public and disciplines in private but I just didnt see the "coaching" of the kids that did it taking place. I agree the penalties havent been bad this year but it is the little things with me that bother me. The same plays being called over and over and us running plays in and out with other players. Get with the times. I am sure he is a great guy but you have to understand I only call it as I see it on Friday nights because I dont live in Orrville.

Did you notice we were calling plays off a wristband at times last week? Maybe that's the start of us making a change there.

I'll give you the play book thing...we could be much more imaginative there, but you don't install that in a week & you've seen us..we have trouble executing simple plays. Davault has said several times this year that it looks like we're not even practicing. Obviously we are but there's some breakdown between what's done in practice & what's done in games. We're golf guys...so we know the term "driving range pros." Guy who crushes the ball on the range, but it doesn't transfer to the course.

I can guess he's not OK with late hits. Can't remember any of that this year. And if the coach is doing all he can to keep the kids from public blame, isn't it easy to assume he approaches discipline the same way? Certain kids would respond to a good butt chewing, others wouldn't and then parents see that and don't like it and then it becomes a much bigger issue.

We all loved Smitty, but his style wouldn't fly today. Shouting a kid down with mom, dad & friends in the stands doesn't accomplish much IMO. But making that kid run extra on Monday might.

It's real easy to say let the coaches coach...but we all think we know better. I'm last in line to teach/coach and spend countless hours & weekends away from my family coaching young men...so I can only respect those that do.

We can disagree with philosophies while still being respectful & I think at times this year, our frustration brings out the worst in us & respect goes right out the window.

To your point about supporting but not always having to agree...you're 100% right. But the coaches are part of who we need to support as well.

Good Dialogue guys...made for a good earlier morning read with my coffee. I'm being serious too.


I have no issues with you guys saying stuff about coaching etc...The "good old boy club" on here including myself have said stuff about coaching, and questioned certain calls, or all the penalties. Actually Red Rider Nation, you and I agreed last year on the discipline thing and we were both called out on it by others on here.

We all know things can be done differently...coach Davault even admitted that in the paper....but the few of you that are voicing your opinions to replace the coaches is just crazy and I personally don't think that is the answer, and that is my opinion. To have a great program and tradition you have to have stability at the top....the head coach. The minute you start making coaching changes to fix things that's when it all hits the fan. Orrville has been lucky to have very few head coaches, and be very successful in their time here. That is what builds the great Red Rider Tradition. I'm not saying accept failure and losing seasons and so on....but just realize what the coaching staff has accomplished, the players they have coached and where they are today, the hard work to get kids noticed by college coaches, the emphasis on giving back to the community who gives so much to the school system, the countless and thankless hours they put in to these kids and this program. It goes deeper than the Win/Loss column...and the fact that ALL of these coaches are former players here is special.


Now in saying that, Get this train back on track...make adjustments and go beat Ashland!! :thumbup:

RedRider1;1285842 wrote:Did you notice we were calling plays off a wristband at times last week? Maybe that's the start of us making a change there.

I'll give you the play book thing...we could be much more imaginative there, but you don't install that in a week & you've seen us..we have trouble executing simple plays. Davault has said several times this year that it looks like we're not even practicing. Obviously we are but there's some breakdown between what's done in practice & what's done in games. We're golf guys...so we know the term "driving range pros." Guy who crushes the ball on the range, but it doesn't transfer to the course.

I can guess he's not OK with late hits. Can't remember any of that this year. And if the coach is doing all he can to keep the kids from public blame, isn't it easy to assume he approaches discipline the same way? Certain kids would respond to a good butt chewing, others wouldn't and then parents see that and don't like it and then it becomes a much bigger issue.

We all loved Smitty, but his style wouldn't fly today. Shouting a kid down with mom, dad & friends in the stands doesn't accomplish much IMO. But making that kid run extra on Monday might.

It's real easy to say let the coaches coach...but we all think we know better. I'm last in line to teach/coach and spend countless hours & weekends away from my family coaching young men...so I can only respect those that do.

We can disagree with philosophies while still being respectful & I think at times this year, our frustration brings out the worst in us & respect goes right out the window.

To your point about supporting but not always having to agree...you're 100% right. But the coaches are part of who we need to support as well.

Smitty's style may not fly these days, but it won lots of games and many kids today could use the ribbing he used to give. I am all for the way he coached...if little Johnny can't take it and mom and dad have a hard time with it then bye-bye. Get tougher or go home!

However, our society has become one where everyone gets a trophy, a ribbon, or pat on the back....:thumbdown:

Old Rider;1285952 wrote:Smitty's style may not fly these days, but it won lots of games and many kids today could use the ribbing he used to give. I am all for the way he coached...if little Johnny can't take it and mom and dad have a hard time with it then bye-bye. Get tougher or go home!

However, our society has become one where everyone gets a trophy, a ribbon, or pat on the back....:thumbdown:

Could kids take the ribbing knowing that Smitty was trying to bring out the best in them? Would too many take it personally?

Plenty of kids could use that tough love, but the first parent to take it the wrong way would run to the school board & demand a change.

OQB,
Good point about stability. The Browns are a good example of that. Change coaches every 2 years and see what happens.

Some think that having alums in the staff is exactly what is wrong..and that somehow having someone in here without ties to the school will somehow make things better automatically.

I believe regardless of the talent that any team has it is fair to want to see kids that are better in Week 10 then they were in Week 1. That should be the expectation of any fan. That is a direct reflection of the coaches' ability to improve what he has. At this point that is all I am asking. What I am seeing however is not that at least not yet. 4 more games to get better then Week 1. Can they do it?

Red Rider Nation;1286022 wrote:I believe regardless of the talent that any team has it is fair to want to see kids that are better in Week 10 then they were in Week 1. That should be the expectation of any fan. That is a direct reflection of the coaches' ability to improve what he has. At this point that is all I am asking. What I am seeing however is not that at least not yet. 4 more games to get better then Week 1. Can they do it?

I hope so. A win would be so nice. Nobody deserves a win simply because its been a tough season, have to go earn it, but it would be good for the kids.

We said early on that weeks 5-6-7 would define the season and it has..not in a good way.

There's been years in the past that all was lost after week 9 (remember the 33-0 loss to Clear Fork?). The next week we thump Wooster & make it to the state semifinals.

Would be nice to see us win a few to end the year on a positive. Ashland is going to be tough...they're smarting from 2 straight losses.

I did hear the words "change" in regards to some personnel for this week. We'll see what that means.

Old Rider;1285952 wrote:Smitty's style may not fly these days, but it won lots of games and many kids today could use the ribbing he used to give. I am all for the way he coached...if little Johnny can't take it and mom and dad have a hard time with it then bye-bye. Get tougher or go home!

However, our society has become one where everyone gets a trophy, a ribbon, or pat on the back....:thumbdown:

Here, here, very well said Old Rider. Smittys first year was my freshman year I had never heard swearing From a coach like that in my life, and that was just the two week physical fitness sessions before regular practices even started. Like you said maybe that's a little of what's needed these days . Smitty was a great coach and he is Missed greatly .

RedRider1;1285958 wrote:Could kids take the ribbing knowing that Smitty was trying to bring out the best in them? Would too many take it personally?

Plenty of kids could use that tough love, but the first parent to take it the wrong way would run to the school board & demand a change.

OQB,
Good point about stability. The Browns are a good example of that. Change coaches every 2 years and see what happens.

Some think that having alums in the staff is exactly what is wrong..and that somehow having someone in here without ties to the school will somehow make things better automatically.

Excellent point ,You are correct about the Smitty comments in regards to the kids and the parents . These days parents just don't want their kids hollered at or disciplined by a coach or teacher.

Troll King;1286067 wrote:Here, here, very well said Old Rider. Smittys first year was my freshman year I had never heard swearing From a coach like that in my life, and that was just the two week physical fitness sessions before regular practices even started. Like you said maybe that's a little of what's needed these days . Smitty was a great coach and he is Missed greatly .

No doubt. My senior year he was one of the golf coaches and chewed me out more then once in Golf! I was scared to death to get a bogey!!!

Red Rider Nation;1286022 wrote:I believe regardless of the talent that any team has it is fair to want to see kids that are better in Week 10 then they were in Week 1. That should be the expectation of any fan. That is a direct reflection of the coaches' ability to improve what he has. At this point that is all I am asking. What I am seeing however is not that at least not yet. 4 more games to get better then Week 1. Can they do it?

This is what we all expect....nice post.

Red Rider Nation;1286076 wrote:No doubt. My senior year he was one of the golf coaches and chewed me out more then once in Golf! I was scared to death to get a bogey!!!

LOL. He was quite intimidating...but would always throw an arm around you. Something to be said about a coach that you don't want to let down....I'm sure plenty of his basketball players would play their best just to spite him....whatever works...and boy did it ever work.

Imagine how many more state titles he'd have won if not for St. V. in the late 80's. Heck he almost got back to state in 1993 when no one expected it. He definately got the most out of his kids.

Red Rider Nation;1286076 wrote:No doubt. My senior year he was one of the golf coaches and chewed me out more then once in Golf! I was scared to death to get a bogey!!!

LOL

Red Rider Nation;1286076 wrote:No doubt. My senior year he was one of the golf coaches and chewed me out more then once in Golf! I was scared to death to get a bogey!!!

One of my fav Smitty moments: he was joining Fall coaches at Exchange club representing his golf team. He fielded a question from the audience (from a golfing buddy I suspect) who was questioning Simtty's competence as the Head Golf Coach. He asked how "Coach" Smitty would correct a bad slice of one of his players......Smitty calmly replied "Make him aim far to the left off the tee, of course" hahahahaha. Still makes me laugh.

RedRider1;1285958 wrote:Could kids take the ribbing knowing that Smitty was trying to bring out the best in them? Would too many take it personally?

Plenty of kids could use that tough love, but the first parent to take it the wrong way would run to the school board & demand a change.

OQB,
Good point about stability. The Browns are a good example of that. Change coaches every 2 years and see what happens.

Some think that having alums in the staff is exactly what is wrong..and that somehow having someone in here without ties to the school will somehow make things better automatically.

I know when Smitty would be in my face hollering, screaming, spitting, punching, etc...I always knew he was doing it for 3 reasons...

1. To remind me how bad I just screwed up. (in his own words)
2. To remind me that if I do it again I won't touch the floor. (in his own words)
3. To piss me off and make me play better!

We need more of 1 thru 3 IMO!!

Lets finish with 4 straight wins...end up 5-5...and sneak into the playoffs:thumbup:

Stranger things have happened....

I like the Smitty stories. Old Rider I remember Smitty in the locker room after we beat Waseon. He was as excited as all of us...stories that could be told.

rrfan;1286404 wrote:I like the Smitty stories. Old Rider I remember Smitty in the locker room after we beat Waseon. He was as excited as all of us...stories that could be told.

rrfan...we played together? How interesting that I haven't figured out who you are or that we are that close in age?

Yeah...If the walls in that gymnasium could talk...oooohh. R-rated for sure, but a best seller! I have some classic stories along with everyone else that played for him or knew him well!!

I've heard members of the 92 championship team tell some doozies. The destruction of a cardboard recycling bin in the Waynedale locker room takes the cake for me. LOL.

Best seller for sure.

I think you guys that played or knew Smitty best should get together and put it all into a book! That would be awesome, I have heard some really good ones from former players and coaches.