sleeper;966740 wrote:Joe Pa has no power over the institution. If he did, why would he fire himself? Joe Pa has bosses too and he did exactly the right thing, both morally and legally. Morally because you don't just go throwing around accusations that such and such raped a child, legally because that is the protocol in how to handle criminal cases involved at any university.

If someone comes to you and says they saw a man raping a little boy, you tell that someone we are calling the proper authorities. Thats not throwing around accusations you jackass. That's handling the situation like an adult. Major difference. Instead Paterno was a coward.
I do however agree that Mcquery should be fired as well. He may have "just been a GA" but he was 28 years old when he saw it I believe. He is just if not a little more responsible than Paterno. Both are scum.

Nebraska officials have called Penn State and are concerned for the safety of their team, coaches and fans and want assurances that enough security will be in place so they can arrive, play the game, watch the game and leave in safety. Can anyone say National Guard?

Crimson streak;966756 wrote:Exactly people don't get it that joe pa followed the right steps. Who seriously calls the police on hearsay? He filled a report with campus police what more do you want the guy to do? Joe pa will forever be a legend and one of the greatest people in college football history. What he has done for the university, basically donating his pay check from the university every year back into the school. The reason he was fired is because the board has wanted him gone for a whole now and this was the way to get rid of him

People confuse the definition of hearsay all the time. A hearsay statement is something that is stated in a hearing or a court of law by a party other than the one who witnessed the event. Generally speaking hearsay evidence is not admitted if the party who made certain statements or acts are not available in Court to be cross-examined. Although hearsay testimony is often not admitted into evidence, but there are exceptions to the rule.

What you are saying is illogical. First of all, Paterno is not a trier of the law or of the fact. Sedcond, what ou are saying is that Paterno should not contact the police just beause someone told them something. People do it all the time for a variety reasons, most notably public safety. For instance, if you were to knock on my door and say that there is a crazy man with a hockey mask and chain saw chasing you but I do not see him, are you to say I am not to contact the authorities because it is a hearsay statement? Should I cross examine the guy with the hockey mask and chain saw? As a matter of public safety, society has granted us the ability to contact the authorities for public safety.

JoePa had a duty and he breached it.

sleeper;966740 wrote:Joe Pa has no power over the institution. If he did, why would he fire himself? Joe Pa has bosses too and he did exactly the right thing, both morally and legally. Morally because you don't just go throwing around accusations that such and such raped a child, legally because that is the protocol in how to handle criminal cases involved at any university.

Accusations huh? :rolleyes:

FYI, Paterno forced the Board of Trustees to accept individuals HE wanted on the Board. There are 2 ex-football players under Paterno and a former football team manager for Paterno on the Penn State Board of Trustees. It's called empire building. NAME ONE coach in the country that has that much power.

I find this interesting after reading the GJ yet again.

All of the victims who gave testimony had very similar/consistent stories with inappropriate touching in a shower.

McQueary's testimony is VERY different than that of the victims. I just thought it was interesting that a number of victims said they were touched on the leg in the car, they were touched in the basement of his home, they tried to stay distant from Sandusky in the shower but ended up being right next to him. Sandusky lathered them up, rinsed them off, had bodily contact.... It just isn't consistent with what McQueary says he saw.

Big Gain;966730 wrote:Obviously NOT all the blame is on Paterno. The University President has been fired. The AD was put on leave, which means he will be fired after his trial. The VP over campus police has been fired and is facing a criminal trial. I bet others will be fired before this is all over.

Paterno alone is being blamed??? What planet have you been living one???

As likethat has stated, this is a response to his post preceding mine.

queencitybuckeye;966658 wrote:This. Sandusky is the monster, what is there to talk about with him? At this point, the conversation naturally turns to those who could have limited the damage done and did not.

What is there to talk about with Sandusky? He committed the crimes, an investigation done, and awaits trial. Everyone agrees he is a monster. So what do you want to talk about.

Paterno is the news because he is the face of PSU, and he wasn't fired and hadn't resigned (until after the season). THAT'S THE STORY. Now that he has been fired, some disagree. THAT'S THE STORY.

All others except McQueary have been fired, resigned or are on leave. And McQueary is being talked about.

bigkahuna;966776 wrote:I find this interesting after reading the GJ yet again.

All of the victims who gave testimony had very similar/consistent stories with inappropriate touching in a shower.

McQueary's testimony is VERY different than that of the victims. I just thought it was interesting that a number of victims said they were touched on the leg in the car, they were touched in the basement of his home, they tried to stay distant from Sandusky in the shower but ended up being right next to him. Sandusky lathered them up, rinsed them off, had bodily contact.... It just isn't consistent with what McQueary says he saw.

It doesn't mean squat. Bottom line: 60 year man in the shower with a 10 year boy. there is touching .... inappropriate and he should have been told never to come back. End of story.

Little Danny;966767 wrote:People confuse the definition of hearsay all the time. A hearsay statement is something that is stated in a hearing or a court of law by a party other than the one who witnessed the event. Generally speaking hearsay evidence is not admitted if the party who made certain statements or acts are not available in Court to be cross-examined. Although hearsay testimony is often not admitted into evidence, but there are exceptions to the rule.

What you are saying is illogical. First of all, Paterno is not a trier of the law or of the fact. Sedcond, what ou are saying is that Paterno should not contact the police just beause someone told them something. People do it all the time for a variety reasons, most notably public safety. For instance, if you were to knock on my door and say that there is a crazy man with a hockey mask and chain saw chasing you but I do not see him, are you to say I am not to contact the authorities because it is a hearsay statement? Should I cross examine the guy with the hockey mask and chain saw? As a matter of public safety, society has granted us the ability to contact the authorities for public safety.

JoePa had a duty and he breached it.

What do you want me to call it then. Information from someone else? And those are completely different situations. Why didn't the person who witnessed it call the police then? And in that situation joe pa reported it like he should have. It's not his job to turn that information over to the authorities. all sexual assault and rape cases on campuses go through an investigation process through the university campus police before the city or state police get involved. Joe reported it to campus police it's not his fault the ad and the vp of campus police covered it up.

Little Danny;966783 wrote:It doesn't mean squat. Bottom line: 60 year man in the shower with a 10 year boy. there is touching .... inappropriate and he should have been told never to come back. End of story.

I'm not disputing that. It was just something that picked up on and thought "huh" Nothing more, nothing less.

Crimson streak;966787 wrote:What do you want me to call it then. Information from someone else? And those are completely different situations. Why didn't the person who witnessed it call the police then? And in that situation joe pa reported it like he should have. It's not his job to turn that information over to the authorities. all sexual assault and rape cases on campuses go through an investigation process through the university campus police before the city or state police get involved. Joe reported it to campus police it's not his fault the ad and the vp of campus police covered it up.

At the point it became a cover up, all who knew were part of the cover up.

Big Gain;966775 wrote:FYI, Paterno forced the Board of Board of Trustees to accept individuals HE wanted on the Board. There are 2 ex-football players under Paterno and a former football team manager for Paterno on the Penn State Board of Trustees. It's called empire building. NAME ONE coach in the country that has that much power.

http://www.psu.edu/trustees/selection.html

"Penn State's 32-member Board of Trustees is composed of the following: Five trustees serve in an ex officio capacity by virtue of their position within the University or the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. They are the President of the University; the Governor of the Commonwealth; and the state secretaries of the departments of Agriculture; Education; and Conservation and Natural Resources. Six trustees are appointed by the Governor; nine trustees are elected by the alumni; six are elected by organized agricultural societies within the Commonwealth; and six are elected by the Board of Trustees representing business and industry endeavors."

Don't see "2 ex football players and a team manager forced on the board by Joe Paterno.

Crimson streak;966756 wrote:Exactly people don't get it that joe pa followed the right steps. Who seriously calls the police on hearsay? He filled a report with campus police what more do you want the guy to do? Joe pa will forever be a legend and one of the greatest people in college football history. What he has done for the university, basically donating his pay check from the university every year back into the school. The reason he was fired is because the board has wanted him gone for a whole now and this was the way to get rid of him

Why didn't Paterno talk to his best friend Sandusky himself? Why didn't Paterno ask up the chain of command why nothing was done about Sandusky? Why wasn't Paterno concerned about Sandusky being seen around the football facilities with little boys over the past NINE YEARS. What if it had been one of Paterno's grandsons in the shower with Sanduksy, what would Paterno have done then?. Paterno said yesterday. "I should have done more." What more do you need? I SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE!!!

How do you know at that time that he thought everything checked out or was told it was nothing after the investigation? I don't know you don't know and that's my point no one knows what joe pa knows so you can't crucify him when you don't know everything that happened. He says it now after the fact that he wished he did more I'm sure a lot of people are saying the same. That doesn't mean he knew everything that was happening

Big Gain;966798 wrote:Why didn't Paterno talk to his best friend Sandusky himself? Why didn't Paterno ask up the chain of command why nothing was done about Sandusky? Why wasn't Paterno concerned about Sandusky being seen around the football facilities with little boys over the past NINE YEARS. What if it had been one of Paterno's grandsons in the shower with Sanduksy, what would Paterno have done then?. Paterno said yesterday. "I should have done more." What more do you need? I SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE!!!

You left out the rest of Paterno's quote. "IN HINDSIGHT I should have done more" Wouldn't we all have done something different in our lives had we had the knowledge of 20/20 hindsight.

Big Gain;966798 wrote:Why didn't Paterno talk to his best friend Sandusky himself? Why didn't Paterno ask up the chain of command why nothing was done about Sandusky? Why wasn't Paterno concerned about Sandusky being seen around the football facilities with little boys over the past NINE YEARS. What if it had been one of Paterno's grandsons in the shower with Sanduksy, what would Paterno have done then?. Paterno said yesterday. "I should have done more." What more do you need? I SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE!!!

This is easy to say for anyone on anything in hindsight. I guarantee he felt he was doing the right thing at the time and that the right steps have been taken to fix/stop the problem. If/when he saw Sandusky, he probably thought that issues were investigated and a decision was made to allow him to be back on campus. Like the report states, he was told to no longer bring kids onto campus, but there was no way of the university to enforce that for whatever reason.

Skyhook79;966806 wrote:You left out the rest of Paterno's quote. "IN HINDSIGHT I should have done more" Wouldn't we all have done something different in our lives had we had the knowledge of 20/20 hindsight.

Which doesn't mean we get a pass on what we did or didn't do at the time.

Skyhook79;966797 wrote:http://www.psu.edu/trustees/selection.html

"Penn State's 32-member Board of Trustees is composed of the following: Five trustees serve in an ex officio capacity by virtue of their position within the University or the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. They are the President of the University; the Governor of the Commonwealth; and the state secretaries of the departments of Agriculture; Education; and Conservation and Natural Resources. Six trustees are appointed by the Governor; nine trustees are elected by the alumni; six are elected by organized agricultural societies within the Commonwealth; and six are elected by the Board of Trustees representing business and industry endeavors."

Don't see "2 ex football players and a team manager forced on the board by Joe Paterno.

I didn't say there were forced on the Board I said he forced the board to accept them. You don't think paterno could get the alumni to put someone on the board he wanted to see as a trustee??? How dense can you be? Paterno had somuch power that when the trustees asked him to "retire" several years ago he refused. Any other coach in the country would then have been fired if he refused to retire. Name ONE coach in the country that has that much power. Bobby Bowden didn't.

At this point my belief is this:

McQueary is still coaching because of something heinous. Either he was bullied into not going to the cops or he knows something else that no one at PSU wants to get out.

Skyhook79;966806 wrote:You left out the rest of Paterno's quote. "IN HINDSIGHT I should have done more" Wouldn't we all have done something different in our lives had we had the knowledge of 20/20 hindsight.

So if I ever kill anyone all I have to do is say "well in hindsight I wish I wouldn't have done that" and it will all be ok?

Yes there are some things in my life I wish I could go back and do differently. But I do know one thing if I knew there was a child rapist around me I would do everything in my power to make sure something was done about it.

EXACTLY dufoos, HINDSIGHT means in the past. Paterno knows if he had done more in the past he would still have his job.

Skyhook79;966806 wrote:You left out the rest of Paterno's quote. "IN HINDSIGHT I should have done more" Wouldn't we all have done something different in our lives had we had the knowledge of 20/20 hindsight.

EXACTLY dufoos, HIND SIGHT means in the past. Paterno admitted that if he had done more in the PAST he would still have his job TODAY.

alwaysawarrior;966758 wrote:If someone comes to you and says they saw a man raping a little boy, you tell that someone we are calling the proper authorities. Thats not throwing around accusations you jackass. That's handling the situation like an adult. Major difference. Instead Paterno was a coward.
I do however agree that Mcquery should be fired as well. He may have "just been a GA" but he was 28 years old when he saw it I believe. He is just if not a little more responsible than Paterno. Both are scum.

#1 We don't know what the GA told Joe Pa.

#2 You don't go accusing people of rape. Joe Pa and the GA have no proof and these are very serious allegations that you don't just go throwing around. You are being unrealistic using hindsight 20/20 to craft your theory. Pretty ridiculous and embarrassing for people to be attacking Joe Pa with all the facts we now know.

WebFire;966769 wrote:Accusations huh? :rolleyes:

Once again, at the time of the incident that is merely all it was. Hindsight is 20/20. Enjoy!