Cleveland Indians Hot Stove---2011-2012

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The Answer

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Dec 12, 2011 6:50 PM
Read some speculation on another site that the big move was trying to trade for Carlos Lee of the Astros to play 1st base. No idea if true just what they were saying.
Dec 12, 2011 6:50pm
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grodt

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1,588 posts
Dec 12, 2011 8:36 PM
Only if the Astros agree to eat a majority of his salary ala Derek Lowe. He's owed $18.5 million next season.
Dec 12, 2011 8:36pm
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OQB

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6,679 posts
Dec 12, 2011 10:09 PM
still waiting.....
Dec 12, 2011 10:09pm
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HitsRus

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Dec 13, 2011 7:11 AM
Patience.....
Dec 13, 2011 7:11am
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Laley23

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Dec 13, 2011 2:33 PM
grodt;1013717 wrote:I always forget that this was Shapiro's first big trade. Now he made up for it a bit with the Colon trade but this one hurt. Injuries played a major role but don't they always?

For those who feel like beating your head against a desk: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2011/12/what-could-have-been-robbie-alomar.html#comment-form
I had HUGE hopes for Alex Escobar. I didnt know the extent of those injuries until that read. Kind of pissed I gave Shapiro a slide and blamed injuries on that one...clearly a dumb trade based on his history.
Dec 13, 2011 2:33pm
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grodt

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Dec 13, 2011 3:13 PM
I was in the same boat about Escobar. I had no idea he had that kind of injury history. Looking back that was a really dumb risk to take.
Dec 13, 2011 3:13pm
B

BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Dec 13, 2011 7:01 PM
Heard on 92.3 driving home that the Tribe is out of the running for Willingham. Minnesota's the front runner.
Dec 13, 2011 7:01pm
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grodt

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Dec 13, 2011 7:30 PM
Frankly for what he's probably going to sign for he isn't worth it. Our most likely option for acquiring a player right now is via trade.
Dec 13, 2011 7:30pm
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like_that

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Dec 13, 2011 7:34 PM
grodt;1013717 wrote:I always forget that this was Shapiro's first big trade. Now he made up for it a bit with the Colon trade but this one hurt. Injuries played a major role but don't they always?

For those who feel like beating your head against a desk: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2011/12/what-could-have-been-robbie-alomar.html#comment-form
Doesn't matter who they would have recieved in that trade. None of those players would have been signed to stay in Cleveland.
Dec 13, 2011 7:34pm
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HitsRus

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Dec 13, 2011 9:20 PM
I heard it was down to the Twins and the Tribe. for Willingham....frankly, I think you go the extra mile and get him.

29 HRs from the right side would look mighty nice in a Tribe uni.


edit....ESPN reporting Willingham to the Twins pending a physical:(

Way to go Paul! ..2nd place again.
Dec 13, 2011 9:20pm
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grodt

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Dec 13, 2011 9:52 PM
like_that;1014002 wrote:Doesn't matter who they would have recieved in that trade. None of those players would have been signed to stay in Cleveland.
Maybe not at the end of their rookie contracts but they would have been here for 6 years and most likely still here for the run in 2007. Imagine David Wright and/or Jose Reyes on those teams.
Dec 13, 2011 9:52pm
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OQB

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Dec 13, 2011 10:28 PM
This front office is a joke.....
Dec 13, 2011 10:28pm
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HitsRus

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Dec 13, 2011 10:41 PM
Latest ....the Twins insist that the deal for Willingham is not done (they are still holding out for Cuddyer)....even as the Indians Mark Shapiro starts making excuses, tweeting that Willingham is a good fit offensively...but not defensively.
Dec 13, 2011 10:41pm
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grodt

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Dec 13, 2011 10:43 PM
It's not really an excuse, it's a fact. Willingham is a terrible defender. The more I hear and read the more I am sour on signing Willingham if the contract is the reported 3 year/$9-10 million a year
Dec 13, 2011 10:43pm
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HitsRus

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Dec 13, 2011 10:59 PM
Seriously?...You can find all kinds of excuses...do you want a bat or not? Whatever. You are not going to find much better in that price range.

I think you make a decision to try to improve the team. I don't think adding Derrek Lowe and standing pat is much of an improvement. Any player capable of making an impact is going to cost you either money or players.
Dec 13, 2011 10:59pm
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hoops23

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Dec 14, 2011 12:07 AM
I do not want Willingham. Not sure why you guys are getting all excited about him. He's an average player with above average pop and below average - average.

He's definitely not worth 10 million bucks. I can picture it now, we sign this guy for 10 mill, then in 2 years when he's hitting 13 homers or not playing due to injury, the same guys clamoring for him will be bitching at the FO for signing him to that much $$$.

Seriously, the guy is not worth that. He's not going to make us a playoff team, because he's not that big of a difference maker.
Dec 14, 2011 12:07am
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grodt

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Dec 14, 2011 12:12 AM
You're right they aren't going to find better on the free agent market but I think there is more value through trade. The price that the Twins are reportedly paying ($7 million) isn't bad but 3 years is a long time for a player on the decline of his career. The last 30-something hitter we signed long term didn't work out well and we've been hampered by that contact for the last 3 years.

Again our biggest assets are trade pieces not money to throw at free agents.
Dec 14, 2011 12:12am
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like_that

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Dec 14, 2011 7:05 AM
You guys complain about Dolan not throwing any money, and when he finally might, you don't support the move.

/OCTRIBELOGIC
Dec 14, 2011 7:05am
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HitsRus

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Dec 14, 2011 7:15 AM
The other way to look at this is that Hafner will be gone next year, so the defensive 'liability' that people are now crying about disappears as he takes on more of a DH role. Sorry, I don't get what is so bad about 29 HRs and 98 RBI's. If you can get that without having to give up any of your own talent, why would you be against that.?
Dec 14, 2011 7:15am
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Commander of Awesome

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Dec 14, 2011 8:20 AM
[h=1]Source: Willingham, Twins Agree To Deal[/h]



Dec 14, 2011 2:09 AM EST
Veteran Josh Willingham has reached agreement on a multiyear deal with the Twins pending completion of a physical exam, according to a league source.
Willingham, 32, is a career .262 hitter with 132 home runs for the Marlins, Nationals and A's. He batted .246 with a career-high 29 homers and 98 RBIs for Oakland in 2011.


No worries Tribe fans, we were just a pawn to increase his contract.
Dec 14, 2011 8:20am
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Dec 14, 2011 8:25 AM
What is sad about the Willingham situation is that I'd heard he was looking for $10 million+ per year and that would take the Tribe out of the bidding. When I hear that Minny got him for, I believe, a million per year more than he made last year, just confirms Dolan's cheapness.

They'd better swing some kind of trade or we have the giant Derek Lowe/Grady Sizemore "splashes" to look forward to this year.
Dec 14, 2011 8:25am
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Wooball

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Dec 14, 2011 11:16 AM
Not so fast, Tribe in serious discussions w/ Jose Lopez. All-Star a few seasons ago, still just 28. Can play most infield positions. Hits right-handed. Sounds great.

Except for the fact he has been awful the last 2 years and was designated for assignment twice last season.
Dec 14, 2011 11:16am
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HitsRus

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Dec 14, 2011 12:46 PM
They'd better swing some kind of trade or we have the giant Derek Lowe/Grady Sizemore "splashes" to look forward to this year
Those 'splashes' are the noise of treading water...Lowe less than perfectly replaces Carlos Carrasco, and Sizemore probably will not be the player he once was.

Lopez does sound a lot like a Tribe move. Taking a flyer on a rehab project trying to catch lightning in a bottle. If they do sign him...get an option.
Dec 14, 2011 12:46pm
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Mulva

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Dec 14, 2011 12:56 PM
HitsRus;1014328 wrote:Sorry, I don't get what is so bad about 29 HRs and 98 RBI's. If you can get that without having to give up any of your own talent, why would you be against that.?
Because he's 32, and those were career high numbers. The 3 previous years were 15/51, 24/61, and 16/56. That's not worth $9 million or whatever the offer was.

I'm against spending money just to say you spent money. If he was a 25-30 HR and 90-100 RBI guy every year it's a no brainer, even with his poor average and poor defense. But he isn't.
Dec 14, 2011 12:56pm