Commander of Awesome;938421 wrote:Yeah you're right, 5 games into his first season its time to can him. /sarcasm.

alright maybe i should rephrase it. he is in way over his head. he can't handle both duties. reggie langhorne was on all bets are off yesterday and he even said this offense doesn't even look like an offense. you can not dink and dunk and win the NFL simple as that.

Commander of Awesome;938408 wrote:lol holmgren has way more to do than to watch tape and develop a game plan. Calling plays isn't easy and requires a lot of work.

Do we even know exactly what Holmgren does?

Al Bundy;938545 wrote:Do we even know exactly what Holmgren does?

I hope he doesn't go to College Football games and drink a beer or 2, dude should be in his office 24/7.

Skyhook79;938659 wrote:I hope he doesn't go to College Football games and drink a beer or 2, dude should be in his office 24/7.

Can he drink a beer or two in his office then?

like_that;938375 wrote:Get off your high horse. What do you want us to do? Hold hands while sitting by a camp fire and singing kumbaya?

Okay, I'm off my "high horse" now what do I do?

All I'm saying is, most Browns fans are never going to be satisfied with what this team is doing, or with what little success they do achieve throughout the season - not just this season, but in every single season since they've returned.

I understand why most aren't really all that optimistic. I mean, we've been let down time after time since they've returned. But for once, for the first time since they've returned, we have people the right people in the front office calling the shots. Maybe Shurmur isn't the guy, maybe he is in over his head, but I think 5 games into the season is a little early to declare this season just like all the rest.

We suck, yes. Will they win another game? Maybe Sunday. But I've taken the approach that if things don't drastically improve after next season, then unfortunately, we'll have to blow the whole thing up once again.

It's going to be okay, deep breath.

Al Bundy;938663 wrote:Can he drink a beer or two in his office then?

Jon Lester says he can.

OhioStatePride2003;938668 wrote:But for once, for the first time since they've returned, we have people the right people in the front office calling the shots.

They're only the right people if they win. Carmen Policy and Phil Savage had good track records too. When you keep losing it doesn't matter.

Mulva;938715 wrote:They're only the right people if they win. Carmen Policy and Phil Savage had good track records too. When you keep losing it doesn't matter.

Yes, I understand that. Shurmur looks like a questionable hire right now, and rightfully so, but fans that are saying that he's not the man for the job is a little premature. We knew the lockout was going to affect some teams more than others, and the Browns were bound to be one of them with the overhaul of the coaching staff and what not. He's 5 games into his first season (ever) as a head coach in the NFL, and given the circumstances, how easy did you (not you specifically) expect this to be?

It's easy to say he doesn't know what he's doing because the team is only 2-3, and has looked atrocious at times, at least on the offensive end. Look at the Rams, they've yet to win a game, and their offense has been dismal without Shurmur. They're ranked just behind the Browns in total offense, and are only averaging 9 points a game. Could this be because of Shurmur's absence? Maybe not, but the point is, they've got a new guy calling the offense and have struggled with essentially the same players on offense. Could it be because of the lockout and shortened off-season?

Other teams have struggled with new personnel in key positions, and the Browns are no different.

As far as Holmgren and Hekcert go, unlike Carmen Policy and Phil Savage, they've improved the talent on this team 180 degrees. Just my opinion though. I understand why everyone is questioning Shurmur, and I agree with it to a certain point. I just think that the guy needs at least a couple seasons at least to prove himself. I will say this though, if the offense doesn't improve and Holmgren doesn't relieve Shurmur of his OC duties after this season (if not before), then I will begin to question Holmgren.

OhioStatePride2003;938794 wrote:Yes, I understand that. Shurmur looks like a questionable hire right now, and rightfully so, but fans that are saying that he's not the man for the job is a little premature. We knew the lockout was going to affect some teams more than others, and the Browns were bound to be one of them with the overhaul of the coaching staff and what not. He's 5 games into his first season (ever) as a head coach in the NFL, and given the circumstances, how easy did you (not you specifically) expect this to be?

should be as easy as harboughs making it in san fran. they have the same talent level as us

Look at the Rams, they've yet to win a game, and their offense has been dismal without Shurmur.

They were even worse with him.

In 2009 they were 29th in total offense.

In 2010 they were 26th in total offense.

This year so far they are 25th.

Seeing that in black and white should send chills up the spines of Browns fans that Holmgren handed over the dual role of HC and OC to a guy whose 2 seasons of o-coordinator work produced offenses in the bottom 15% of the league both seasons.

Anyone who says that Nepotism is not alive and well in this country is incredibly naive, as if his name was not Shurmur (thanks Fritz) with his resume Holmgren never even so much as calls him.....much less hand over the type of power he did.

This was a monumental miscalculation on his part, as Shurmur is turning out to be "who we thought he was." That being a lifetime position coach who did little to distinguish himself as a O-coordinator before finding a sucker (Holmgren) willing to hope he could one day turn into a coach of his uncles caliber.

shook_17;938422 wrote:alright maybe i should rephrase it. he is in way over his head. he can't handle both duties. reggie langhorne was on all bets are off yesterday and he even said this offense doesn't even look like an offense. you can not dink and dunk and win the NFL simple as that.

End of thread.

Peeps can bitch & moan about Shurmur as much as they want but unless he screws Holmgren's wife I don't see him going anywhere, anytime soon. Holmgren absolutely LOVES him so sit back and "enjoy" the carnage that has been the Browns "offense." :mad:

I'm not even convinced its Shurmur's offense thats the problem. Sure I can pick apart certain play calls but overall the line has been horrible. That's not his fault. I've watched McCoy afraid to sling it deep, thats not his fault. Hillis leaving yards on the field, Braylon Edwardesty dropping passes, etc, thats not his fault. Granted I think not hiring an OC was a mistake, but overall I can't blame him as much as I would like to.

Commander of Awesome;939085 wrote:I'm not even convinced its Shurmur's offense thats the problem. Sure I can pick apart certain play calls but overall the line has been horrible. That's not his fault. I've watched McCoy afraid to sling it deep, thats not his fault. Hillis leaving yards on the field, Braylon Edwardesty dropping passes, etc, thats not his fault. Granted I think not hiring an OC was a mistake, but overall I can't blame him as much as I would like to.

IMO, most of it is the O-Line. McCoy has looked like crap but he didn't last year when he had protection. If this team could RUN the ball he might look a little better. Problem is, I don't think Shurmur really WANTS to run the ball. Heckert needs to grow a pair, bite the bullet and draft a FUCKING RIGHT TACKLE with a HIGH draft choice.

BR1986FB;939090 wrote:Heckert needs to grow a pair, bite the bullet and draft a FUCKING RIGHT TACKLE with a HIGH draft choice.

Preaching to the choir brother. I've wanted a legit RT since Ryan Tucker left.

They actually need that RT more than that #1 WR, IMO.

Im ok with the RT/LB combo. Would rather get the LB first though, especially if vontaze is on the board. The offense is only going to go as far as the line does, especially in the AFC North. Keep drafting a WR in the 2nd round. Hell maybe sign a FA wr.

like_that;939164 wrote:Im ok with the RT/LB combo. Would rather get the LB first though, especially if vontaze is on the board. The offense is only going to go as far as the line does, especially in the AFC North. Keep drafting a WR in the 2nd round. Hell maybe sign a FA wr.

This is my thinking...LB/RT. I have a feeling that Heckert will pull the trigger with FA's in 2012. Three drafts should put them in a pretty decent position.

BR1986FB;939173 wrote:This is my thinking...LB/RT. I have a feeling that Heckert will pull the trigger with FA's in 2012. Three drafts should put them in a pretty decent position.

I feel like that is what he was waiting for as well. The Browns defense can be pretty good if/once the young guys start to mold. Taylor and Sheard are inconsistent right now (i.e. dominate one play, get blown off the line in another), but they show flashes of what they can be. I might be way off base, but a Patrick Willis LB (Vontaze imo) can make the defense very scary.

like_that;939184 wrote:I feel like that is what he was waiting for as well. The Browns defense can be pretty good if/once the young guys start to mold. Taylor and Sheard are inconsistent right now (i.e. dominate one play, get blown off the line in another), but they show flashes of what they can be. I might be way off base, but a Patrick Willis LB (Vontaze imo) can make the defense very scary.

This.

Taylor and Sheard have been inconsistent, but that will come with experience I would think. I love Vontaze Burfict. I've heard him compared to a young Ray Lewis, which is very high praise for a young LB.

If Heckert wants to go LB, and Burfict is off the board, there's still some players at LB. Manti Te'o (Notre Dame), Luke Kuelchy (Boston College), Dont'a Hightower ('Bama), Zach Brown (NC State), Courtney Upshaw ('Bama) and Brandon Jenkins (Florida State) are all really good LB that should be available in next year's draft. A name that's getting a lot of praise so far is Bruce Irvin (West Virginia). I really like this kid's game. He's got good size at 6'2, 245 lbs. and speed with a 4.5 40. He's tough as nails, and is WVU's best player on D. I think if you draft any of these guys, and D'Qwell Jackson and Chris Gocong can stay healthy, we'll have a nice group of LB in Cleveland.

We desperately need a RT. There's just no way around it. At the start of the year many "experts" considered Cleveland's o-line to be one of the best in the AFC North. To say they've greatly underachieved is an understatement. Like most of you, I think they're the biggest reason our offense as looked as dismal as they have. Matt Kalil out of USC is going to be available next year I believe, and is rated as the top o-line prospect by some "experts". I like Jonathan Martin from Stanford, and Riley Reiff from Iowa as well.

Matt Kalil is the best tackle prospect to come out since Joe Thomas IMO.

I would love teo but I don't think he will leave early.

I really don't think there are too many ways the Browns COULD go wrong with their draft next year. In my opinion this team still needs an RT, OG (maybe 2 if Stein doesn't make it back), WR, DE, 2 LB, a CB, and a safety with some pass coverage skills. We could also use an upgrade at QB, and if Hillis and the team part ways which looks more and more likely in my opinion we'll need a RB too.

There are holes to fill, but I have to agree with a RT first. We can't run the ball and we can't throw the ball longer than 10 yards. You win in the trenches. And we haven't won very many battles there.

5 games into the season and Browns fans are already talking about next years draft. smh