Footwedge;978803 wrote:No and no. Again...for the umpteenth time....the gap has increased 6 to 10 fold over the past 30 years. For the majority of these protesters, this is what they are unhappy about. It's really not that hard to figure out.

And again I ask, what exactly can the government DO about that gap? Tax increases on the rich ARE NOT going to help close the gap, except to make the rich poorer. Is that the goal? Nothing the government does will have ANY effect on the poor getting richer.

There is something vastly un-American about taxing the rich more just to close the wealth gap and make the OWS crowd happy. The rich pay the huge vast majority of the taxes, making them less wealthy will only hurt government revenues, it won't do a damn thing to make the poor richer.

tk421;978833 wrote:And again I ask, what exactly can the government DO about that gap? Tax increases on the rich ARE NOT going to help close the gap, except to make the rich poorer. Is that the goal? Nothing the government does will have ANY effect on the poor getting richer.

The tax increases people don't want to close that gap, they want them because they think that corporations and the rich are able to be justly taxed more. It's that simple. No one thinks it magically fixes everything, just that it's fair that corporations and the wealthy pay more taxes.

Manhattan Buckeye;978823 wrote:Vanderbilt BE
UVA JD

There isn't a law professor at UVA that makes under $150,000. There are administrative assistants that make over $90,000.

All with gold-plated health benefits and state pensions.

I put my money where my mouth is and stopped donating two years ago because I didn't think it is fair that current employees are making so much when they are putting current students in debt that is backbreaking.

My wife and I have paid off our student loans, yet we are still outraged by this economic nonsense, for reasons altruistic and personal. These young people aren't paying off their loans, how are they going to buy real estate or keep the economy growing (or in Obama's term, destroying)?

Okay, so how much should law professors, who teach what are supposed to be some of our absolute brightest citizens be paid in your view?

And again, the cost of college and the student loan crisis is another thing you seem to agree is a problem, just like the OWS people. Why are they so crazy then? You probably differ in what you believe is the answer to the problem but the OWS has never really been about having all the answers rather it's about recognizing some of the problems.

tk421;978833 wrote:And again I ask, what exactly can the government DO about that gap? Tax increases on the rich ARE NOT going to help close the gap, except to make the rich poorer. Is that the goal? Nothing the government does will have ANY effect on the poor getting richer.

There is something vastly un-American about taxing the rich more just to close the wealth gap and make the OWS crowd happy. The rich pay the huge vast majority of the taxes, making them less wealthy will only hurt government revenues, it won't do a damn thing to make the poor richer.

It's a complex issue involving many factors....not just taxes. I've posted my opinions on how to correct this on multiple threads. Not gonna resummarize for you tonight.

But just a thought...why are there hundreds and hundreds of multi millionaires claiming that they are undertaxed? ...And "for the good of the country, they should be taxed more"?

Hmmm? Keep in mind....just a reminder here....we have a national debt of 15 trillion....we also have the lowest marginal tax rates in over 70 years. Out of 160 countries around the globe, we have the third largest income/wealth gap. Connect the flippin dots.

gut;978496 wrote:Misery loves company. I think a core belief is if I can't be rich, then no one deserves to be.

SMFH....it doesn't get any dumber than this. You act as if all of these people want communism. Guess what? They don't.

Footwedge;978803 wrote:No and no. Again...for the umpteenth time....the gap has increased 6 to 10 fold over the past 30 years. For the majority of these protesters, this is what they are unhappy about. It's really not that hard to figure out.

I was always taught/trained never to bring a problem without at least some idea about a solution. These people either need to communicate their solution better, or they need to STFU.

These people are simply sitting there, they aren't resisting anything. No reason at all to use a chemical agent against them unless it's for punitive purposes which the police are not to engage in, not their jobs or right to punish people. Stop being lazy and arrest them. It's a war crime to use this stuff in combat but we're completely cool to use it on our citizens.

[video=youtube;WmJmmnMkuEM][/video]
#policestate

And I noticed how none of you have mentioned the ridiculous and illegal things the police have been doing. Barricading sidewalks and requiring corporate IDs, ignoring court orders to let people protest in the park, beating people and using chemical weapons because apparently protesters are inconvenient. It's absurd.

I Wear Pants;978886 wrote:And I noticed how none of you have mentioned the ridiculous and illegal things the police have been doing. Barricading sidewalks and requiring corporate IDs, ignoring court orders to let people protest in the park, beating people and using chemical weapons because apparently protesters are inconvenient. It's absurd.

I'll leave the tactical discussion to others, but would simply point out that protesters are more than inconvenient beyond a certain point, they're infringing on the rights of others.

I have also gone over the numbers about taxing the rich before. You could take 100% of their money and not have enough to balance the budget. Increasing the top rate less than 5% to 39.6% won't do a damn thing for the deficit. We have a spending problem. No one has said anything about raising taxes on anyone except the rich, and as everyone is aware the rich are unable to pay for the spending that the government does. So, again WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO? They will not cut spending, taxing the rich won't do anything. When the evil rich pay more and we still have over a 1 trillion dollar deficit, who will they go after then?

Footwedge;978861 wrote:SMFH....it doesn't get any dumber than this. You act as if all of these people want communism. Guess what? They don't.

It's scientific fact that people gauge happiness in comparison to their neighbor, not a guy living in Canada. Everyone in America could be making $1M a year, and people would still bitch about the wealth gap of people making $1B a year.

As has been pointed out, the "wealth gap" and taxing the rich more solves absolutely nothing, other than for political purposes to distract the ignorant. You can take 100% of the annual earnings of the 1% and still not close the budget deficit, but taxes ARE a drag on economic productivity so, in fact, more taxes will only shrink the pie for everyone but clearly as long as the wealth gap shrinks with a dwindling pie more than a few people will be happier.

Also, the vast majority of these people are complete and utter hippocrates. The American textile industry has largely disappeared because people wouldn't buy overpriced clothing made in America. So rather than go out of business, I outsource my labor to China and pay myself and my professional management staff well. And that makes me the bad guy because you wouldn't make my clothes for $10 an hour, or pay $20 more than that shirt from China?

We could redistribute the 1% earnings to everyone with a job, some 100M, and that would amount to about $10-12k for everybody (after the govt takes it's cut). Somehow I think these people want more than that. Of course, if you then balance the budget everyone would be then giving like $15k back. So tell me again how the problem is that the rich make too much money?

Simply put, everyone can't be in the top 10% and someone has to be in the bottom 20%. "Equal" pay for unequal talent and effort is complete bullshit. Sounds a lot like communism to me. The vast majority of these people, given the opportunity, would not act any differently than the 1% in accumulating their wealth - all the rich being guilted into volunteering to pay more taxes (well, saying rather than doing, which they aren't prevented from doing) yet I don't here many talking about hiring more people or paying their workers more. This is all about punishing the successful.

tk421;978912 wrote:I have also gone over the numbers about taxing the rich before. You could take 100% of their money and not have enough to balance the budget. Increasing the top rate less than 5% to 39.6% won't do a damn thing for the deficit. We have a spending problem. No one has said anything about raising taxes on anyone except the rich, and as everyone is aware the rich are unable to pay for the spending that the government does. So, again WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO? They will not cut spending, taxing the rich won't do anything. When the evil rich pay more and we still have over a 1 trillion dollar deficit, who will they go after then?

But um, no one wants to take all the rich's money.
And people have talked about raising taxes on other people but generally consider it not a good idea to do it on anyone but the wealthy right now because everyone else is hurting at the moment. Eventually taxes should rise for everyone yes if we're to pay for things.

And most people who want to have corporations and the rich pay a reasonable amount of taxes want to cut spending. Pretty much a universal one wanted is less military spending. But that's completely off the table for conservatives who want to add even more spending by bombing and bombing and bombing. Apparently bombs are free and there is no consequence for killing people.

queencitybuckeye;978865 wrote:I was always taught/trained never to bring a problem without at least some idea about a solution. These people either need to communicate their solution better, or they need to STFU.

What a stupid idea. Why the fuck would you ask a question or bring up a problem if you knew the answer? You don't have to know the answer to know there is a problem.

I Wear Pants;978880 wrote:These people are simply sitting there, they aren't resisting anything. No reason at all to use a chemical agent against them unless it's for punitive purposes which the police are not to engage in, not their jobs or right to punish people. Stop being lazy and arrest them. It's a war crime to use this stuff in combat but we're completely cool to use it on our citizens.

[video=youtube;WmJmmnMkuEM][/video]
#policestate

This pepper spraying of calm, non violent protesters has been found unconstitutional in at least one case that I know of. Hopefully the police get charged for it.

They were told to leave, they did not, they were told to remove their tents, they did not, a crowd surrounded the police, so they did what they felt needed to happen. Don't want to be pepper sprayed, do what the cops ask you to do.

I Wear Pants;978938 wrote:What a stupid idea. Why the **** would you ask a question or bring up a problem if you knew the answer? You don't have to know the answer to know there is a problem.

I don't think you have to have a solution, but being a jackass to everyone and "occupying" places isn't going to get anything solved. Usually those who protest have a said goal in mind, and just saying "fix economic inequality" isn't going to solve anything.

I don't really care about the cops punishing the protestors, barricading sidewalks, and asking for corporate IDs in certain area. These protestors deserve it for wasting tax payer dollars on police trying to stop the mob from ruining our country.

I Wear Pants;978938 wrote:What a stupid idea. Why the **** would you ask a question or bring up a problem if you knew the answer? You don't have to know the answer to know there is a problem.

It is ok to ask questions that you don't have answers for, but why not work towards a solution? How does preventing your average person from access to sidewalk or park help solve economic problems?

sleeper;979098 wrote:I don't think you have to have a solution, but being a jackass to everyone and "occupying" places isn't going to get anything solved. Usually those who protest have a said goal in mind, and just saying "fix economic inequality" isn't going to solve anything.

I don't really care about the cops punishing the protestors, barricading sidewalks, and asking for corporate IDs in certain area. These protestors deserve it for wasting tax payer dollars on police trying to stop the mob from ruining our country.

What you think people "deserve" has no bearing, thank god, on the legality of using excessive force, barricading sidewalks, and illegally requiring ID.

I Wear Pants;978880 wrote:These people are simply sitting there, they aren't resisting anything. No reason at all to use a chemical agent against them unless it's for punitive purposes which the police are not to engage in, not their jobs or right to punish people. Stop being lazy and arrest them. It's a war crime to use this stuff in combat but we're completely cool to use it on our citizens.

[video=youtube;WmJmmnMkuEM][/video]
#policestate

sorry, you have a misunderstanding of what "resisting" is. they refused to obey lawful orders. they RESISTED a police order to move from the sidewalk. pepper spraying them is not punishing them, again, you have a big misunderstanding. it is not the job of the police to arrest people in this situation, it is their job restore order in this situation. a physical arrest is nothing more than a tool, a tool like OC spray is.

its funny you come on here telling people they have no clue what the OWS protestors want or whatever, but then continue to ignore the fact you have no clue what police can and cannot do.

and you bring up the fact that OC spray is illegal in war(which is basically all relative). would you been in favor of banning it from private use?

I Wear Pants;978886 wrote:And I noticed how none of you have mentioned the ridiculous and illegal things the police have been doing. Barricading sidewalks and requiring corporate IDs, ignoring court orders to let people protest in the park, beating people and using chemical weapons because apparently protesters are inconvenient. It's absurd.

I've noticed how you not gone against the illegal things the protestors have done such as blocking the use of public areas from the rest of the society. they go into resturants creating disturbances causing businesses to lose customers, they turn public areas into toilets, areas people like you and me would have to walk through to get to our jobs etc.

does it ever, ever cross your mind the things the police do are to protect and serve the 99.9% of society that dont want their rights infringed on by the OWS people?

I Wear Pants;978939 wrote:This pepper spraying of calm, non violent protesters has been found unconstitutional in at least one case that I know of. Hopefully the police get charged for it.

not to be a dick, but this is the politics forum....link?

I Wear Pants;979156 wrote:What you think people "deserve" has no bearing, thank god, on the legality of using excessive force, barricading sidewalks, and illegally requiring ID.

They can go to prison for all I care. They are infringing on the rights of another and brinking the police into using "excessive force". Pepper bomb them until they get the hint that if you are going to protest, don't be a dick to everyone else.

I Wear Pants;978938 wrote:What a stupid idea. Why the fuck would you ask a question or bring up a problem if you knew the answer? You don't have to know the answer to know there is a problem.

Knowing the solution is stupid? No, what's stupid is the following, which is largely an accurate representation of this "movement":

OWS protestor: "What's happening is wrong, we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more".
Anyone stupid enough to bother asking these misfits a question with any hope of getting a cogent answer: "What do you want?"
OWSP: "Derp"

"OWS protestor: "What's happening is wrong, we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more".
Anyone stupid enough to bother asking these misfits a question with any hope of getting a cogent answer: "What do you want?"
OWSP: "Derp" "

Can we make this a sticky?

What is the response? Derp, more derp. Derp de derp. Forgive our debts, give us money, derp.