Laley23;867096 wrote:A-Rod for Jeter
Young for Andrus

I just looked up Young. He moved from 2B to SS for Soriano. A one position shift to the left. He then moved from SS to 3b for Andrus. Again, a one position shift to the left.

Arod moved from SS to 3B for Jeter, well, because Jeter had been the SS for 9 years already. And again, just a one position shift to the left.

Going from 1B to LF is completely different, Votto would probably suck in LF just as bad as Alonso. Why can't Alonso put in the work to be a better LF?

Those other players arent valid arguments.
The proposal to move a gold glove caliber first basemen all the way to the OF, for an untested rookie. That move is much different than just a move in the INF.
The Arod and Jeter thing.....give me a break. That is no way an equal correlation. ARod did that because they have a HOF'er in Jeter. It would be like Pujols coming to Cincy, and then asking JV to move to a diff spot. That is a diff situation. I bet JV would be inclined to move then.

Young move for SOriano.....again...moving, albeit just a spot over.....for a bona fide ML player, not some roookie. Plus, moving positions like that isnt a big deal.

I agree with Credible......put ALonso out there to learn. He most likely would become a better LF than JV ever could.

Laley23;867096 wrote:A-Rod for Jeter
Young for Andrus

Jeter had already been the starter for 9 seasons, so A-Rod didn't move for Jeter, he knew he was playing somewhere else when he came to the Yankees.

riders1;867470 wrote:Jeter had already been the starter for 9 seasons, so A-Rod didn't move for Jeter, he knew he was playing somewhere else when he came to the Yankees.

That doesnt make any sense. A-Rod played one position one season, got a new teammate/team and moved positions the next season. He moved. Its not that complicated.

A-Rod was a SS, and he then played 3B because Jeter was at SS. A-Rod moved because of Jeter.

Laley, you are a smart guy. You are an IU fan so you know and appreciate sports and such, but what your comparision to Arod/Jeter to Votto/Alonso is apples to oranges.

1th (I love when I can interject that into a post), a move from SS to 3B is pretty painless. A move from 1B to LF, well, is much different.
2rd, Arod went there knowing he was going to move, and there is a future Hof at SS, not some unproven rookie.

To make a fair comparision ya would have to ask this...would Votto be willing to move a position if he was to sign with St Louis? I bet his answer would be totally different and be more willing to do that because it is a great player at his position, and not some rookie.

I am not so sure this move would help the Reds. I am thinking Alonso coudl be a better LF than Votto anyways, and I am betting Alonso would be a lesser first baseman than Votto.

Wow.

I stated my thoughts.....and as I sit here I agree with my thoughts.....BUT...I agree with justin's thoughts more.....Keep Alonso out there and he should be able to improve enough to be sufficient with his bat off-setting way more than any defenisve problems......even though he is the worst fielding MLB player I have ever seen to start a career. But regardless....thus far....I agree with justin's idea more than mine......has that ever happened on one of these boards?

NOW.....I simply listed very good high tier players that willingly moved with little to no issue.....just did for the team. I'm not budging one bit for the just moving 1 position to the left. Alex Rodriguez was every bit as good at SS as Derek Jeter...most argued better. Michael Young moved for Soriano....was Soriano better at 2nd? But mainly I just listed high level players that most of us know that have willingly moved for what most feel was the better of the team. My purpose was to say Votto while last year's deserving MVP.......does not have some supreme clout that he is enshrined at his position forever.....nothing more, nothing less. Spouting off fruit comparisons seemed to try to make my thoughts look idiotic. I don't think he should willingly volunteer to move....but if the Reds feel Alonso can play 1st base average.......then that puts him near Votto's level. Votto is overrated at first base....he is better than average but letting the Reds announcers spew GG stuff is just sas silly as them spewing CoCo HOF crap. If the Reds believe Alonso can play first at the major league expectations....everyone knows Votto can pl way better LF than Alonso. My worry is Alonso was so unbelievably atrocious in LF, is that it's hard for me to believe he can actually play 1st base...or anywhere other than DH.....but if the Reds want Votto to move to LF next season becasue they feel that Alonso is more than adequat at 1st.....then Votto should do it for the better of the team......and if that situation arises and he goes all pissy like he can.......he'll not be very high up my list of team players.

I92, what do you make of the ideas that those other players you stated who moved positions did so for an established very good player already? Do you think Arod would have moved to 3B in NY if it was just some rookie they wanted to get playing time?

Moving from SS to 3B is more of an ego hit than actual learning a new position.

As for Votto as a GG first baseman........they mentioned some 'study' or report or whatnot that rates the players on defense. Think they said BP and JV were at the top.

Z

thavoice;867724 wrote:I92, what do you make of the ideas that those other players you stated who moved positions did so for an established very good player already? Do you think Arod would have moved to 3B in NY if it was just some rookie they wanted to get playing time?

Moving from SS to 3B is more of an ego hit than actual learning a new position.

As for Votto as a GG first baseman........they mentioned some 'study' or report or whatnot that rates the players on defense. Think they said BP and JV were at the top.

First off, let me apologize for my bitchiness.

Here is another thing....yes, Alonso is a rookie and we do not know a great amount of what he'll be able to do......but, if he was JUST a rookie a Cincy sportswriter wouldn't have made an article about it and it would not even be debatable on here. I believe most of us feel he has a very good approach at the plate and a pretty high offensive ceiling.

We keep mentioning Arod/Jeter....ok screw that one even though ARod won the GG at SS the two years before moving to 3rd.....let's talk about Pete. No one, no one was a bigger God in Cincinnati than Peter Edward Rose. Foster to Rose was just as much gap as Alonso to Votto. If the most popular player in franchise history can move positions multiple times.....Votto can move....IF ASKED

This is just a question and Votto has done nothing wrong. He prepares well, plays hard, plays everyday and has improved a good bit since his beginning at first. I just can't fathom Alonso having all this practice and 60 games experience in LF and still being the worst MLB fielder I have ever witnessed.

THE biggest question to me is how good is he at first? Can he be at least a Ryan Howard on defense? He just seems silly limited in movement. He moves like a 1400 game caught Molina brother.

Michael Young moved positions again this year....Craig Biggio?

My final summary of this....Votto is the Reds deserving first baseman....but if the Reds scouts and management feel Alonso can be at least near average defensive first baseman AND ask Votto to move to LF next year...he should be willing to go at it full steam ahead like he has first base...if Alonso didn't prove worthy....simple transition back.

He's leaving Cincy anyways...gotta do what's best for the team.

Still in ass mode...sorry

Looks to me like George Foster played in EXACTLY 15 games in RF prior to Pete Rose moving....and Rose was one of the games top players and had just recently won 2 GG in RF before moving to give Foster some time over the next several years.

And neither answer matters because we have Dusty who brings in a 30 million dollar lefty who throws 100+ to pitch to one batter in the effin 6th inning....while out 12th pitcher is in crunch time bases loaded in the 8th

Trade Alonso to the Indians for Chisenhall (and more for either side if needed)?

But really, find a place for Alonso, but keep JV at 1B.

The Reds screwed the pooch at the deadline. They really should have moved Alonso for some help in LF or at 3B, but they held on to him. Presumably because they might not think they can lock Votto up long term. Which makes me wonder if we see them dangle Votto after this season. Would love to them get Bautista in here and put him at 3B.

With all that being said, now that the chance to move Alonso is all but gone, it would have been nice to see Votto volunteer to play left. However, I can understand why he wouldn't. His contract only has a few years left on it and he wants to maximize value. You don't want to move to LF and look foolish in the field when you are in line for a big contract.

thavoice;867521 wrote:Laley, you are a smart guy. You are an IU fan so you know and appreciate sports and such, but what your comparision to Arod/Jeter to Votto/Alonso is apples to oranges.

1th (I love when I can interject that into a post), a move from SS to 3B is pretty painless. A move from 1B to LF, well, is much different.
2rd, Arod went there knowing he was going to move, and there is a future Hof at SS, not some unproven rookie.

To make a fair comparision ya would have to ask this...would Votto be willing to move a position if he was to sign with St Louis? I bet his answer would be totally different and be more willing to do that because it is a great player at his position, and not some rookie.

I am not so sure this move would help the Reds. I am thinking Alonso coudl be a better LF than Votto anyways, and I am betting Alonso would be a lesser first baseman than Votto.

Yeah, I know.....and btw, I never made the damn comparison so everyone can quit acting like this is some proposed idea I had and I am backing up my reasonings.

Justin asked who those guys moved for, I answered lol. THAT IS ALL. I wouldnt move my MVP 1B to the outfield, I am not a moron.

Ironman92;868042 wrote:Z

First off, let me apologize for my bitchiness.

Here is another thing....yes, Alonso is a rookie and we do not know a great amount of what he'll be able to do......but, if he was JUST a rookie a Cincy sportswriter wouldn't have made an article about it and it would not even be debatable on here. I believe most of us feel he has a very good approach at the plate and a pretty high offensive ceiling.

We keep mentioning Arod/Jeter....ok screw that one even though ARod won the GG at SS the two years before moving to 3rd.....let's talk about Pete. No one, no one was a bigger God in Cincinnati than Peter Edward Rose. Foster to Rose was just as much gap as Alonso to Votto. If the most popular player in franchise history can move positions multiple times.....Votto can move....IF ASKED

This is just a question and Votto has done nothing wrong. He prepares well, plays hard, plays everyday and has improved a good bit since his beginning at first. I just can't fathom Alonso having all this practice and 60 games experience in LF and still being the worst MLB fielder I have ever witnessed.

THE biggest question to me is how good is he at first? Can he be at least a Ryan Howard on defense? He just seems silly limited in movement. He moves like a 1400 game caught Molina brother.

Michael Young moved positions again this year....Craig Biggio?

My final summary of this....Votto is the Reds deserving first baseman....but if the Reds scouts and management feel Alonso can be at least near average defensive first baseman AND ask Votto to move to LF next year...he should be willing to go at it full steam ahead like he has first base...if Alonso didn't prove worthy....simple transition back.

He's leaving Cincy anyways...gotta do what's best for the team.

I dont think any michael young comparisons are even relevant here. Lets make a bet...I bet JV resigns with the Reds.

ARod and Jeter....I think that comes down to two things....1th,....Rod chose to come to the NYY and knew he was going to swtich and knew they had an exceptional SS. 2rd, I bet the roles would have been reversed if Jeter had went to the Rangers and Arod was at SS. I bet Jeter woudla moved positions. It very well coulda came down to something as simple as that!

Rose is brought up alot....the dude moved often and ya gotta commend a guy for that. I think he was just an unique type of guy, more of the exception to the rule

How is Young not relevant? A great player for way more years and continues to move positions....never batting an eye. No it's not like Votto...but players move and get moved.

Keep Votto at 1st and cut Dusty