Reds fans...were we really surprised?

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thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 10, 2011 9:38 AM
That the team is struggling this year?

In some aspects, I am not surprised. Last year the team had a player who played out of his mind, Votto, and had a streaky player in Gomes that got on a great streak and was the emotional leader.

The team had a leadoff guy who hit alot of HR last year, but struck out a T O N.
Have a guy they rely on that goes on extended horrid streaks in Jay bruce.


I said it at the start of the season....it is NEVER good when 2/5 of your rotation starts the season on the DL. I know Cueto has been on of the best in MLB, but it is almost always an omen to start the year.

If you had to rank it in terms of a percentage...what percentage are you surprised that the reds stunk it up thise seasn?

I am about 48$ surprised.
Aug 10, 2011 9:38am
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se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Aug 10, 2011 10:29 AM
I think I'm most surprised by the lack of improvement(borderline regression) by Stubbs and Bruce. They have to get a hitting coach in there that can work with those guys. How long do you give Stubbs before you realize that he's just not the answer. At least Bruce has shown the potential to be great, but I've not seen that from Stubbs. Also, they will need to make some moves to retool the bullpen over the winter. Cordero will be gone, Chapman will be a SP, and Masset is in the last year of his deal. Hopefully the will decide to re-sign D Train. I wouldn't mind goin into next year with a rotation of Cueto, Chapman, Leake, D Train, and Arroyo.

I am probably 65% surprised.
Aug 10, 2011 10:29am
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dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Aug 10, 2011 11:59 AM
10%, my prediction was 82 wins. I think they will get about 80 now. This is what happens when you don't improve a team.
Aug 10, 2011 11:59am
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 10, 2011 11:59 AM
Do you really think a hitting coach can change that much?

A hitting coach for the most part, to my limited knowledge, is most beneficial when a hitter goes into a slump and he HC helps figure out what is going wrong and fix it.

Stubbs has always been a K victim. He is striking out at the ML level a little more than in the minors, but he always was a guy who K'd alot. What we see from STubbs is not really a slump, but a guy who is what the back of what his baseball card says he is.

His stance isnt messed up, he for the most part doesnt swing at awful pitches all the time like Gomes did (everyone swings at bad pitches, but I dont think stubbs really does it more than others). His swing is a little long...he has a power swing for the most part.


I am not sure a hitting coach for him will change STubbs because he has always been this way.
Aug 10, 2011 11:59am
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jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Aug 10, 2011 12:22 PM
To be honest, I'm kind of surprised at their struggles
Aug 10, 2011 12:22pm
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se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Aug 10, 2011 1:10 PM
thavoice;857357 wrote:Do you really think a hitting coach can change that much?

A hitting coach for the most part, to my limited knowledge, is most beneficial when a hitter goes into a slump and he HC helps figure out what is going wrong and fix it.

Stubbs has always been a K victim. He is striking out at the ML level a little more than in the minors, but he always was a guy who K'd alot. What we see from STubbs is not really a slump, but a guy who is what the back of what his baseball card says he is.

His stance isnt messed up, he for the most part doesnt swing at awful pitches all the time like Gomes did (everyone swings at bad pitches, but I dont think stubbs really does it more than others). His swing is a little long...he has a power swing for the most part.


I am not sure a hitting coach for him will change STubbs because he has always been this way.

I think it could help, if he is willing to listen, which doesn't seem to be a strength of his since he is one of the fastest guys in baseball, and can't bunt. Either no one has tried to make him the player he should be or he just hasn't listened to them. It just amazes me that these minor league guys can have such good approaches at the plate, and the guys that have been in the majors for years don't. Look at a guy like Sappelt(he's had some tough luck with hard hit balls), he barely flinches at a ball out of the zone, and he hits it where it's pitched, same w/ Cozart and Alonso. I'm just frustrated that there doesn't seem to be any improvement out of the 2 guys we need to improve the most.
Aug 10, 2011 1:10pm
D

dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Aug 10, 2011 1:47 PM
Dusty is a players manager. Stubbs knows he has his back so he can do whatever he wants. Pretty sure Jacoby is just a puppet.
Aug 10, 2011 1:47pm
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Ironman92

Administrator

49,363 posts
Aug 10, 2011 4:39 PM
TL;DR.....but I am not surprised. Walt isn't making very good decisions enough but the root IMO is Dusty....these guys are not improving and when they slump it goes on forever. The Reds as a whole have the worst plate approaches in baseball......some of them are talented enough to overwhelm that......but not nearly often enough. It's glaringly obvious how the guys are coming out of triple A.......they have good aprroaches.....why is that?
Aug 10, 2011 4:39pm
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Ironman92

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49,363 posts
Aug 10, 2011 4:40 PM
A touch too laid back and too many oops I didn't hustle plays......manager
Aug 10, 2011 4:40pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 10, 2011 5:26 PM
Remember very realy this year? The team was hustling its balls off. There were numerous plays where even the slow guys were busting their nuts and causing havoc.

Too much complancy is what I see on this team, and that does come from the manager not demanding hustle.
Aug 10, 2011 5:26pm
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Classyposter58

Senior Member

6,321 posts
Aug 10, 2011 5:57 PM
They've just had bad luck this year. I believe they lead the league in one run losses with 26! Shoot if they can split just half of those then they're in first! This just wasn't their year...however the fact Arroyo still has a job is an embarassment...he's the worst pitcher in baseball
Aug 10, 2011 5:57pm
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jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Aug 10, 2011 6:04 PM
Ironman92;857713 wrote:Walt isn't making very good decisions enough but the root IMO is Dusty

I generally applaud anything Walt does, but I think he screwed the pooch this season. We have a ton of young talent. But we actually have too much young talent. I feel like he should have taken some of the young guys and turned them into a veteran.

I'm starting to feel like IF that Bautista deal was on the table, we should have taken it. Alonso could have played 1B and our cleanup/LF mess would be solved. It'll be interesting to see if the Reds explore it again after the season ends.
Aug 10, 2011 6:04pm
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gerb131

Senior Member

9,932 posts
Aug 10, 2011 6:26 PM
I'm kinda shocked that they are tailspinning like Maverick thru Ices wash but what gets me is the defense and 2 pitch outs. Those continue to kill them one game after another.
Aug 10, 2011 6:26pm
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wildcats20

In ROY I Trust!!

27,794 posts
Aug 10, 2011 8:17 PM
I'm surprised that they are "this bad." I really expected them to compete for the Division crown again.
Aug 10, 2011 8:17pm
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like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Aug 10, 2011 9:22 PM
Not a fan, but really not that surprised about their performance this year. I didn't expect their pitchers to repeat what they did last year. Such is the life of a small market team as well.
Aug 10, 2011 9:22pm
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justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Aug 10, 2011 9:25 PM
like_that;858079 wrote:Not a fan, but really not that surprised about their performance this year. I didn't expect their pitchers to repeat what they did last year. Such is the life of a small market team as well.

Troll.
Aug 10, 2011 9:25pm
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like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Aug 10, 2011 9:30 PM
justincredible;858094 wrote:Troll.

No, the reds have a lot to look forward to. Chapman is a bright spot in their future, and next year they seemed primed to compete once again since everyone is on contract, and the rest of the division seems to be going for it all this year.
Aug 10, 2011 9:30pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 11, 2011 9:29 AM
jordo212000;857829 wrote:I generally applaud anything Walt does, but I think he screwed the pooch this season. We have a ton of young talent. But we actually have too much young talent. I feel like he should have taken some of the young guys and turned them into a veteran.

I'm starting to feel like IF that Bautista deal was on the table, we should have taken it. Alonso could have played 1B and our cleanup/LF mess would be solved. It'll be interesting to see if the Reds explore it again after the season ends.
You can bet he has tried.

There has been talk how less teams are willing to part with their prospects nowadays. It is possible that Walt thought the asking price was way too much. Lets face it I do not think there was going to be any trade near the deadline that was going to propel the redlegs to win the division let alone compete for pennant.

Sometimes the best trades are ones that you dont make. I expect in the offseason maybe they a little more aggressive in the FA market or make some moves after they test out alot of guys the rest of the way. The LAST thing you want to do is trade away some guys and rely on the talent at AAA, because for every 'cant miss' prospect there is a 4A player.

I would have liked to seen some older guys like Hernandez go, MAYBE arroyo (but his deferred contract really messes stuff up..he is owed is deferred $$ if he is traded), CoCo..but you can bet they tried everything but if the return isnt right......
Aug 11, 2011 9:29am
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 11, 2011 9:31 AM
and no way is that Bautista for Votto a good deal.

Look me up in 5,10 years. Votto will be a mainstay in cincy for his career. He may not reach last years numbers, but he will be a consistant .315-325 hitter, 22-27 HR and 90-110 RBI every year for the next 7-10 years.
Aug 11, 2011 9:31am
T

trep14

Senior Member

842 posts
Aug 11, 2011 10:48 AM
thavoice;858503 wrote:and no way is that Bautista for Votto a good deal.

Look me up in 5,10 years. Votto will be a mainstay in cincy for his career. He may not reach last years numbers, but he will be a consistant .315-325 hitter, 22-27 HR and 90-110 RBI every year for the next 7-10 years.

I don't think Votto will resign with cincy though.
Aug 11, 2011 10:48am
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Aug 11, 2011 11:32 AM
thavoice;858503 wrote:and no way is that Bautista for Votto a good deal.

Look me up in 5,10 years. Votto will be a mainstay in cincy for his career. He may not reach last years numbers, but he will be a consistant .315-325 hitter, 22-27 HR and 90-110 RBI every year for the next 7-10 years.

It's only a bad deal because we don't really know what Alonso is capable of. If he could come in and hit .280 w/ 25 HRS and 90 RBI, the trade would be very much worth it.
Aug 11, 2011 11:32am
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justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Aug 11, 2011 12:18 PM
se-alum;858617 wrote:It's only a bad deal because we don't really know what Alonso is capable of. If he could come in and hit .280 w/ 25 HRS and 90 RBI, the trade would be very much worth it.

+threeve
Aug 11, 2011 12:18pm
D

dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Aug 11, 2011 4:12 PM
thavoice;858503 wrote:and no way is that Bautista for Votto a good deal.

Look me up in 5,10 years. Votto will be a mainstay in cincy for his career. He may not reach last years numbers, but he will be a consistant .315-325 hitter, 22-27 HR and 90-110 RBI every year for the next 7-10 years.

for $20mil a year? no thanks. He's not staying in Cincy though, ever heard him talk to Seg or at Redsfest? He has no connection to Cincy. Doesn't go out in the city, doesn't follow other sports teams here, doesn't own a home, no close friends or family.
Aug 11, 2011 4:12pm
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Ironman92

Administrator

49,363 posts
Aug 11, 2011 4:16 PM
dave;859010 wrote:for $20mil a year? no thanks. He's not staying in Cincy though, ever heard him talk to Seg or at Redsfest? He has no connection to Cincy. Doesn't go out in the city, doesn't follow other sports teams here, doesn't own a home, no close friends or family.

Ching ching
Aug 11, 2011 4:16pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 12, 2011 10:57 AM
He will resign with Cincy.

I just think that he is an introvert. No matter where he would go I wouldnt see him going out on the city, or have close friends, etc.

I think if he would go elsewhere taht the pressure to prove his worth to the new team, city and fans would flare up his 'issues'
Aug 12, 2011 10:57am