I am very happy to hear the President Obama will not be increasing US troop levels in Afghanistan, and instead is going to push for clarification from Hamid Karzai as to when the Afghanistan military and government can begin to take care of the countries problems on their own.

At this point, considering all the corruption taking place with the Afghanistan government, and the fact the US/NATO did not launch this war in order to "nation build", I believe it is time for the US to get troops out of Afghanistan as soon as possible. Especially since it is US troops who are carrying most of the burden of what is a joint US/NATO operation.

Official: Obama wants his war options changed
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqyaFh_efr-brDq0rMLF1hkop0tgD9BTNRHO0

President Barack Obama does not plan to accept any of the Afghanistan war options presented by his national security team, pushing instead for revisions to clarify how and when U.S. troops would turn over responsibility to the Afghan government, a senior administration official said Wednesday.

That stance comes in the midst of forceful reservations about a possible troop buildup from the U.S. ambassador in Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, according to a second top administration official.

In strongly worded classified cables to Washington, Eikenberry said he had misgivings about sending in new troops while there are still so many questions about the leadership of Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

I still wish we'd just get the heck out of Iraq and Afghanistan. I understand there's still "unfinished business", but they place is going to be a shithole once we leave anyway, no matter when we leave, let's just bounce now. We could spend that cash on fixing a boatload of problems back at home, most notably the national debt. 12 trillion is no joke guys, and its only getting worse.

sleeper wrote: I still wish we'd just get the heck out of Iraq and Afghanistan. I understand there's still "unfinished business", but they place is going to be a shithole once we leave anyway, no matter when we leave, let's just bounce now. We could spend that cash on fixing a boatload of problems back at home, most notably the national debt. 12 trillion is no joke guys, and its only getting worse.

I agree but there's one fatal flaw to that premise: The clowns currently dominating Washington at the moment will NOT apply the savings to the National Debt. They'll find a way to blow it on useless, wasteful, redundant, and completely unnecessary domestic entitlement programs and label it "stimulus."

I'd rather kick some Taliban and al Qeada ass while we still have a chance.

We need to either go big or go home. Either send the extra troops that the Generals have requested or get the hell out of there.

I'm not a fan of maintaining the status quo, especially when the status quo doesn't seem to be working and is costing the lives of our servicemen.

Is anyone surprised by this? Anyone?

Gobuckeyes1 wrote: We need to either go big or go home. Either send the extra troops that the Generals have requested or get the hell out of there.

I agree gobuckeyes!

Gobuckeyes1 wrote: We need to either go big or go home. Either send the extra troops that the Generals have requested or get the hell out of there.

I wholly agree.

Imagine the outrage if Bush did this.

unique_67 wrote: I am very happy to hear the President Obama will not be increasing US troop levels in Afghanistan, and instead is going to push for clarification from Hamid Karzai as to win the Afghanistan military and government can begin to take care of the countries problems on their own.

At this point, considering all the corruption taking place with the Afghanistan government, and the fact the US/NATO did not launch this war in order to "nation build", I believe it is time for the US to get troops out of Afghanistan as soon as possible. Especially since it is US troops who are carrying most of the burden of what is a joint US/NATO operation.

Official: Obama wants his war options changed
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqyaFh_efr-brDq0rMLF1hkop0tgD9BTNRHO0

President Barack Obama does not plan to accept any of the Afghanistan war options presented by his national security team, pushing instead for revisions to clarify how and when U.S. troops would turn over responsibility to the Afghan government, a senior administration official said Wednesday.

That stance comes in the midst of forceful reservations about a possible troop buildup from the U.S. ambassador in Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, according to a second top administration official.

In strongly worded classified cables to Washington, Eikenberry said he had misgivings about sending in new troops while there are still so many questions about the leadership of Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

And how's your day going XYZ? If this is Obama's position going forward....then good for him in telling the military money machine to fuck off. It's been a long time coming.

Gobuckeyes1 wrote: We need to either go big or go home. Either send the extra troops that the Generals have requested or get the hell out of there.

I'm not a fan of maintaining the status quo, especially when the status quo doesn't seem to be working and is costing the lives of our servicemen.

We heard these same arguments back in the late Sixties during another war. Maybe we should take a different route this time, because the end game looks the same if we continue down this road.

He HAS NOT SAID he will not send more troops

Mike Clark wrote: He HAS NOT SAID he will not send more troops

Nevermind I see it... I am changing the thread title to be more factual

Sorry if the thread title was misleading, as that was not my intent. I interpreted the article as Obama will not be sending more troops, since he has decided against all of the options he was provided with, and is now interested in determining when Afghanistan can be turned over to the Afghan Government and military.

I now realise that President Obama has NOT decided 100% against increasing the number of troops, but instead wants better clarification as to how long any new troops, plus the troops already in Afghanistan will remain in the country.

I'm of the opinion that the opportunity to win this war has long since passed, and it would be best if all troops were removed from Afghanistan starting as soon as possible. My view has changed on Afghanistan over the past 12-15 months as I have learned more about the history of Afghanistan, and also more about Al Qaeda and The Taliban. In my opinion, it is not possible to defeat an ideology thru the use of military force, especially when that ideology is not being forced upon the people of a country. This was is NOT the same as WWII and trying to defeat the ideology of Hitler and Mussolini, who were leaders of countries and forcing their ideology onto the citizens of their countries.

The White House says Obama has not made a final choice, though military and other officials have said he appears near to approving a slightly smaller increase than McChrystal wants at the outset

Directly from the article.

LJ,

I admitted I made a mistake and apologized for the mistake. I am not perfect, and have never claimed to be perfect. There is no reason for you to make the post you just made, because my apology was sincere.

Gobuckeyes1 wrote: We need to either go big or go home. Either send the extra troops that the Generals have requested or get the hell out of there.

^^^^^This.

Shit or get off the pot.

Are we taking the advice of, or even asking for it, the other NATO countries currently deployed in Afghanistan? If not, why?

KevinJr wrote:

Gobuckeyes1 wrote: We need to either go big or go home. Either send the extra troops that the Generals have requested or get the hell out of there.

^^^^^This.

Shit or get off the pot.

We have been shitting....for 8 years now. It's time to wipe our ass and get out of there.

But this is so much more fun, don't ya know? :rolleyes:



Here's the thing. Obama won't be the first President to do this, and he, unfortunately, won't be the last.

I Wear Pants wrote: Are we taking the advice of, or even asking for it, the other NATO countries currently deployed in Afghanistan? If not, why?

Since when does the US take advice fron NATO? Not since Desert Storm.

CenterBHSFan wrote: But this is so much more fun, don't ya know? :rolleyes:



Here's the thing. Obama won't be the first President to do this, and he, unfortunately, won't be the last.

BHSF...are you saying that taking time in determining the welfare of 40,000 American families should not be deciphered with a fine toothed comb?

Didn't the last guy get some things wrong in Iraq?

Maybe Bush should have spent more time on a swivel chair...and listened to Muhammed ElBaradei and Hans Blix before he made his outrageous claims in taking over Iraq...our 51st state.

Gobuckeyes1 wrote: We need to either go big or go home. Either send the extra troops that the Generals have requested or get the hell out of there.

I'm not a fan of maintaining the status quo, especially when the status quo doesn't seem to be working and is costing the lives of our servicemen.

I agree. If we are going to do something, let's do it already. We have been pussyfooting around in every war/conflict after WW2 and nothing has really been accomplished of significance. Korea is still divided, Vietnam is communist and the middle east is a bigger mess than it was.

I think we have done what we set out to do and that is weaken AQ and the Taliban. IMO, Iraq was a big mistake and those troops should be home along with the troops in Afghanistan who have done their job. Let's reward them by allowing them to come home and secure our borders. No more battles, no more casualties.

dwccrew wrote:

Gobuckeyes1 wrote: We need to either go big or go home. Either send the extra troops that the Generals have requested or get the hell out of there.

I'm not a fan of maintaining the status quo, especially when the status quo doesn't seem to be working and is costing the lives of our servicemen.

I agree. If we are going to do something, let's do it already. We have been pussyfooting around in every war/conflict after WW2 and nothing has really been accomplished of significance. Korea is still divided, Vietnam is communist and the middle east is a bigger mess than it was.

I agree as well. Our refusal to officially declare war on our enemy has resulted in the political morass that became of those wars after WW2 including the current conflicts.

Obama now has little political capitol to win and none to lose it. Its unfortunate because this was a just fight. Our leaving now would not bode well for us either.

stlouiedipalma wrote:
We heard these same arguments back in the late Sixties during another war. Maybe we should take a different route this time, because the end game looks the same if we continue down this road.

yeah and the strategy worked militarily. just like how the Tet Offensive was a military failure for the north, however politically it was a victory for them. people always seem to forget those types of things. if the politicians have the balls, the war can be won.

Foot,

No, I'm not saying that at all. But like I've stated at some point in the past, I think that Obama's just waiting for a good political moment. We've had this discussion before and I explained my thoughts on that quite clearly. Maybe you didn't see it, I don't know.
At any rate, he wouldn't be the first President that tried to time things out to the(ir) advantage. Let me repeat, yet again, some things.
- If President Obama brings all the troops home, I'd be happy with that and respect the decision
- If President Obama sends more troops to Af. I wouldn't be so happy with that but I'd respect the decision.

AND, Obama promised change with Af., so I guess I'm waiting for something, anything to happen. It looks like I'm not the only one on this board who's waiting for it either.


Also, I can't help what Bush did and I'd really like to keep him up on the shelf where he belongs. When/IF he does something newsworth today or in the future, I'd be more than happy to discuss it then.

majorspark wrote: I agree as well. Our refusal to officially declare war on our enemy has resulted in the political morass that became of those wars after WW2 including the current conflicts.

Obama now has little political capitol to win and none to lose it. Its unfortunate because this was a just fight. Our leaving now would not bode well for us either.

Exactly. Afghanistan was a just war in the beginning. Iraq never was, but that's not what this topic is about.

As far as Afghanistan goes, I agree with you. Had we declared war in the first place and committed 100%, we would never have been in Iraq because we wouldn't have needed to be there and we would have defeated our opponent much earlier than we have. Afghanistan would have had a government in place (which it has now) and there would be no need to set up shop there.

One thing I always like about Bush 1 is that after we set out and achieved our objective (remove Iraqi troops from Kuwait and liberate Kuwait) we got the hell out of there.

Why can't we do that now?