Lets get one thing clear, I dont know how many times it has to be said but Paul is not a Peace lovin hippie who will never fight. This is basically how it would play out.


Iran attacks Israel or Vice Versa...After all peace talks have failed

Congress: Hey President Paul, Since this war has started there is now a high chance that America's National Security is threatend
Paul: Oh really, lets discuss this and if their is a viable threat to our security, you guys vote and decide if we should declare war
Congress: Ok, We voted and we are declaring War on Iran
Paul: Great, now lets go in there, kick some ass and get out when we are done


American Public: Wow that was fast and we didnt have to stay around for 10 years to clean up the mess. They wanted to mess with the United States and its allies, let them clean up their own mess.

Now here is the Obama/Republican Version

Congress: Hey Iran may be doing something in the future
Obama/Repub: Oh we better stop this right now before it happens, lets send some attack drones in and destoy a bunch of shit.
Congress:Great Idea, and after that lets send in some American troops to kill some more dirty Muslims
Obama/Repub: Fantastic and just in case something else may happen, lets stay there for 10 years and waste a lot of money and waste more American lives.

American People: Wow that was really worth it to waste all that time, money and lives. My house is still losing its value daily, Gas is $4.00 a gallon and we are now 20 trillion dollars in debt with no help in sight.

So I know it takes some deep thought to understand that being against Preemptive strikes just because something may happen sometime, somewhere does not mean you are against protecting the security of the American people. All it means is that you would prefer to fix the problems in our own country before worrying about other countries issues.

I Wear Pants;1080556 wrote:I saw a bunch of Ron Paul signs in Salem today. That made me happy.

Question: As someone who is not affiliated with a party how do I go about voting in the primary?

They will ask you if you want a democrat or republican ballot. I read where there are some other procedures if you voted in other primaries in the opposite party. Or you could be challenged. I am assuming you are going to request a republican ballot. I doubt you will be challengend you are young and have little history.

answer to IWP... I assume you want to vote in the Republican party primary. All you have to do is ask. Unless the procedure has been changed, an election worker will ask you what ballot you want...simply tell them you want a Rep. ballot.

pmoney25;1080589 wrote:Iran attacks Israel or Vice Versa...After all peace talks have failed

Congress: Hey President Paul, Since this war has started there is now a high chance that America's National Security is threatend
Paul: Oh really, lets discuss this and if their is a viable threat to our security, you guys vote and decide if we should declare war
Congress: Ok, We voted and we are declaring War on Iran
Paul: Great, now lets go in there, kick some ass and get out when we are done

I would believe Paul would respond in a manner like this or very close to it. I have posted as much. Thats why I don't fear voting for the guy. I have disageed with him on preventive measures short of war and getting our hands dirty in a dirty world.

I know and you do have a right to disagree. My gripe(not with you) is with the people who bash Paul and say " He wants Iran to have Nuclear Bomb and blow up Israel" or " Ron Paul will do nothing as Muslims Invade this country because he is a 911 truther" and my favorite " America can do nothing wrong because we are America, so if you guys don't like it, who cares"

Those type people are the ones who dont have a clue.

Israel's strategy right now is to slow Iran's program enough to get past the US elections this fall in the hopes more hawkish president is elected. Thats why you are seeing Iranian scientists dropping dead. If its still Obama he will at least be off campaign mode and be more open to military actio

There will be no long term boots on the ground in Iran. I think we have learned our lesson. Sanctions, maybe some aerial and naval stuff, and most likely covert ops. That's the way it will be with Bam or most of the Rep. candidates. If Paul is elected , we can expect a short respite of military action while we ignore the smaller stuff until it conflagrates into something much larger that will demand our action.

The lay R's who know nothing of arms control were against it, but most of the R statesmen and experts, including all the foreign policy experts of the Bush years, Rice and Hadley, were in favor of it.

+1. I think no matter who gets elected on the "R" side, they'll have the expertise of those people. The exception of the group is Paul, who may be a little too sure of his view of the world.

I Wear Pants;1080556 wrote:I saw a bunch of Ron Paul signs in Salem today. That made me happy.

Question: As someone who is not affiliated with a party how do I go about voting in the primary?

I don't know if you are still in school or know anyone where you went to school, but if you know any other Ron Paul supporters you should take them with you to vote in the primary. If you wanted to leave some literature at the school too you can go to ronpaulforums.com and get something good from there. I am going leave some at the campuses around Cleveland. The college kids need to be dragged by the scalp to get them to the polls.

Obama would defeat all of the four Republicans if the election were held today, but Ron Paul fares the best against the incumbent. Obama leads Paul, 44 percent to 40 percent, with 16 percent undecided.

“This is likely a reflection of discontent over Obama’s handling of the economy and, in particular, his outsized appetite for deficit spending,” observed Wenzel. &#8220aul has far and away offered the clearest and most serious plan to cut federal spending, and it appears to be recognized by these survey respondents.”

Romney also is within single digits of Obama, currently trailing, 48 percent to 41 percent. Obama leads both Gingrich and Rick Santorum Santorum by double-digits. Obama leads Gingrich, 50 percent to 36 percent, and Santorum, 49 percent to 34 percent.

Nearly one-quarter of Republicans abandon both Gingrich and Santorum, and Obama leads both men by big margins among independent voters.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/20-of-republicans-leaning-to-obama/

HitsRus;1080618 wrote:There will be no long term boots on the ground in Iran. I think we have learned our lesson. Sanctions, maybe some aerial and naval stuff, and most likely covert ops. That's the way it will be with Bam or most of the Rep. candidates. If Paul is elected , we can expect a short respite of military action while we ignore the smaller stuff until it conflagrates into something much larger that will demand our action.

I have argued many times that this world is governed by the aggressive use of force both military and economic. And at times we need to act aggressively. At times not. Both action and inaction carry risks. The limited actions you laid out could conflagrate into something much larger as well.

majorspark;1080661 wrote:I have argued many times that this world is governed by the aggressive use of force both military and economic. And at times we need to act aggressively. At times not. Both action and inaction carry risks. The limited actions you laid out could conflagrate into something much larger as well.

Actually, the actions he laid out would definitely conflagrate into something much larger.

[video=youtube;g3bf1H9EZfU][/video]

Cleveland Buck;1080631 wrote:I don't know if you are still in school or know anyone where you went to school, but if you know any other Ron Paul supporters you should take them with you to vote in the primary. If you wanted to leave some literature at the school too you can go to ronpaulforums.com and get something good from there. I am going leave some at the campuses around Cleveland. The college kids need to be dragged by the scalp to get them to the polls.

Will do, but I do hate forums that require membership to be approved by a person.

Cleveland Buck;1080663 wrote:Actually, the actions he laid out would definitely conflagrate into something much larger.

The Russians gave us a little deference post 9/11 because they knew we were pissed and united as a nation. Very wise of them not to screw with us at the time. That brief moment in history is now closed. Nothing is certain in war.

The Russians gave us deference because they see terrorism as the greatest threat to world security also. They have had their own problems with terrorism . They were instrumental in helping secure us operational bases in the northern "stans" for our moves into Afghanistan. They have since had a change of heart somewhat...mainly because they are feeling "surrounded" militarily.

I have argued many times that this world is governed by the aggressive use of force both military and economic. And at times we need to act aggressively. At times not. Both action and inaction carry risks. The limited actions you laid out could conflagrate into something much larger as well.

I agree with this. That is why I would defer to the experts in foreign policy and international relations. It is important not to be naive in these matters.

Cleveland Buck;1080650 wrote:http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/20-of-republicans-leaning-to-obama/

Weird, yesterday Santorum was defeating O by 1 and was the only one doing so....in other words, polls don't mean shit

bases_loaded;1080766 wrote:Weird, yesterday Santorum was defeating O by 1 and was the only one doing so....in other words, polls don't mean shit

They really don't, but early polls will tell you how the pollster wants to shape the eventual results. Rasmussen was obviously trying to convince people Santorum is electable. They will be more accurate as they get closer to the election so they don't lose credibility. I don't know anything about this poll or what their bias is. I just found it interesting that nearly 25% of Republicans won't vote for Gingrich or Santorum in it.

So rasmussen is trying to push an agenda but the poll you posted that agrees with you is interesting

bases_loaded;1081021 wrote:So rasmussen is trying to push an agenda but the poll you posted that agrees with you is interesting

#RonPaul'd

bases_loaded;1081021 wrote:So rasmussen is trying to push an agenda but the poll you posted that agrees with you is interesting

Yes. Did I say it was accurate? Or even relevant?

I'm starting to open up to the possibility of a brokered convention...which would be interesting as it would be Paul's only crack at the nomination, not to mention the possibility of a Christie or Rubio entering the mix.

Cleveland Buck;1081053 wrote:Yes. Did I say it was accurate? Or even relevant?

If you didn't think it was relevant, then it's unliely you would have posted it.

I'm starting to open up to the possibility of a brokered convention

I don't think there are too many people alive anymore who remember a 'brokered' convention. I can only remember a few conventions( maybe back in the 60's) where there was ever the even the slightest bit of doubt what the outcome would be. Everything since has been affirmation and acclaimation. While Ron paul might not be able to win, it is important that he carry the fight all the way to the convention. I am not a Paul supporter, but it would be good to have his influence incorporated into the party platform. If he goes seperate ways and third party, we'll be stuck with 4 more years of BHO.

HitsRus;1081174 wrote:I am not a Paul supporter, but it would be good to have his influence incorporated into the party platform.

+999999999999999999999999

Well I can tell you right now, a majority of Ron Paul supporters aren't going to vote for Romney, Santorum, or Gingrich. I don't care if everyone of them starts talking about cutting $1 trillion from the budget immediately, I wouldn't believe any of them anyway.

sleeper;1081214 wrote:Well I can tell you right now, a majority of Ron Paul supporters aren't going to vote for Romney, Santorum, or Gingrich. I don't care if everyone of them starts talking about cutting $1 trillion from the budget immediately, I wouldn't believe any of them anyway.

You believe Ron Paul will accomplish anything he promises? He will have lessegislative power as president then he does now.

bases_loaded;1081220 wrote:You believe Ron Paul will accomplish anything he promises? He will have lessegislative power as president then he does now.

Yes. I do believe he will accomplish a majority of the goals he has laid out. Not all, unless he's elected for a full 8 years, but Ron Paul will do more for this country in 1 year than Romney would do in a lifetime. I don't even care if they impeach and remove RP from office later down the road, his policies will save this country and people will hate him for it.

#poeticjustice

sleeper;1081224 wrote:his policies will save this country and people will hate him for it.

#poeticjustice

This is why RP will not the nomination and why people think he's wacky. They don't understand the problems this country faces and certainly wouldn't like the fixes.